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-   -   Here it comes: Syria (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/513470-here-comes-syria.html)

gehenna 27th Apr 2013 15:28

Why should the UK get involved in sorting this mess out?

Why should the British tax-payers foot the bill to sort out another mess which was not of our doing?

Why should our military personnel be put at risk yet again, to a cause which will take an eternity to sort out?

It's time that we stopped trying to emulate the US as being the 'policeman of the world.'

Let those in that part of the world get together and come to an agreement as what to do, and keep the UK well out of it.

It is farcical that the 'rebels' say that the outside world is not doing enough, failing to supply weapons and finance them; who the hell do they think they are making such demands; they are no better than those they are fighting.

lj101 27th Apr 2013 15:41


This may help.

BBC News - Syria crisis could change face of the Middle East

Rosevidney1 27th Apr 2013 18:00

From stable to chaos. Why are we helping the rebels, pray? Can anyone anticipate a happy ending for that ruined and divided country? For all our sakes we should have nothing to do with expediting the end result. Nothing at all.

SADDLER 27th Apr 2013 18:12

Have to agree with the above.
It seems Hauge and co can't wait to start buying weapons for the rebels.
We all know what way this will end up.

smujsmith 27th Apr 2013 19:11

This just feels and sounds like the Bliar lead in to Iraq 2. Lots of reference to "intelligence" etc etc. Surely, after Iraq etc, the Camoron cannot fall for the same spin, Campbell, Dr Kelly sh1te that we've had before. I know that "history has a habit of repeating itself" but, surely not so quickly ? Although, the current mob are desperate for some "off topic" diversionary stuff, to avoid their poor performance. I just have a very bad feeling about Syria, I'm no military strategist, I just don't believe it will do anyone in this country any good.


cargosales 27th Apr 2013 20:48

Originally Posted by lj101 (Post 7814725)

I agree, that is, or rather was, an extremely good article. Given that it's from April 2011.

The only teensy problem is that the casualty figures quoted in the article .....

"The death toll today after upheavals in a number of Syrian towns and cities is possibly in the low hundreds with many more injured - exact figures are hard to come by - but the regime still shows every bit as much tenacity in facing down its opponents."

... have been repeated on an almost daily basis ever since..:(

Courtney Mil 27th Apr 2013 22:55

For all the predictions of doom here, it's pretty obvious that the politicians are doing everything they can to find excuses not to get involved. I think many of you are jumping the gun. B O'Bama is being very quiet about his "red line". They will stay out of this - albeit for all the wrong reasons.

Deepest Norfolk 29th Apr 2013 19:10

Somebody with a bit of clout and a few balls should stand up and say"FFS, Dave, with what and with whom? because you've scrapped it all or fired them all!".


tonker 29th Apr 2013 19:33

Learn lessons of 100 years of interfering, stop at home, mind own business.

Lonewolf_50 29th Apr 2013 21:23

I ask again of the pols:
Get involved to achieve what end?

It is all well and good to tell the generals and their troops "go and sort it out" but you need to have an objective in mind and a follow up that ... seems to often come off as "not quite sorted out" which leads to more trouble.

Case in Point: France, US, Lebanon, 1982/1983.

"Go and do something."

OK, we went and did something, and achieved ... what? :confused:

TheWizard 29th Apr 2013 22:47

There are other ways of getting drawn in to this
Report: Missiles fired at Russian passenger jet over Syria - ITV News

500N 29th Apr 2013 22:52

"Case in Point: France, US, Lebanon, 1982/1983.

"Go and do something."

OK, we went and did something, and achieved ... what? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/confused.gif"

One hell of a lot of dead soldiers.

500N 29th Apr 2013 22:54

"There are other ways of getting drawn in to this
Report: Missiles fired at Russian passenger jet over Syria - ITV News"

Jesus. Lucky they only exploded close and didn't hit it and detonate.

Russia is going to be mighty pissed.

Sandy Parts 30th Apr 2013 12:09

I know we've agreed to not sell them arms - maybe we could flog them all our old Browning 9mm now we are getting Glocks? - surely they don't count:E

TBM-Legend 30th Apr 2013 12:16

"Give more guns to both sides and negotiate with the winners!"

We must stay away from this mess. If necessary fund Israel to tidy it up...

PS: There isn't much oil and gas there is there?:confused:

lj101 30th Apr 2013 14:01


Actually ...... Leviathan gas field

Research suggests there may be as much as 122 trillion cubic feet of natural gas waiting to be tapped off the coasts of Syria, Lebanon and Israel, as well as Gaza, according to a study last year by the US Geological Survey.

Read more: Vast gas fields found off Israel's shores cause trouble at home and abroad - The National
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
There is.

The Nip 30th Apr 2013 17:06

Why is killing a handful of people with WMD any worse than killing thousands with( .........) insert method?

I am not saying it is right, but then again the killing of tens of thousands of Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians is just as wrong. Unless there is a correct way of killing someone.

Pontius Navigator 30th Apr 2013 19:25

At least it's good to see the Korean situation has been sorted.

Now if there was a calamity in the sub-continent, say a building collapsing with hundreds killed, that might solve the near east problem.:\

Just how much of this is driven by the media? Does Joe P care one way or the other? Clarke was saying that UKIP supporters are xenophobic closet racists. He may be correct, but how many Tory (and former Tory) or Labour or Liberal supporters hold the same views?

The supporters of intervention and subsequent immigration seem to have their own agenda which is not Defence of the UK Home Base.

Lonewolf_50 30th Apr 2013 19:34

For The Nip:

Unless there is a correct way of killing someone
There is, among professional military organizations. See reference to LOAC and Geneva Conventions, among other multilateral agreements.

If I may try to link this thread to something of interest to military aircrew:
Wall Street Journal April 29, 2013 Pg. 10

U.S. Analysis Of Syria's Russian-Made Air Defenses
By Adam Entous and Julian E. Barnes

Russia has helped to build up, modernize and maintain Syria's air defenses since 2007, working quietly and often in secret. Here is a look at what U.S. government officials say the Russians have provided:

SA-5 Gammon Multiple surface-to-air missile systems with a range of 175 miles. Can hit aircraft taking off from Cyprus, where the U.S. has a base.
Designed for use against bombers, can be integrated into other air-defense radar systems. Number of systems unknown.
(LW Note: back in the 80's, those were of some concern when we were playing tag with the Mad Colonel.)

SA-22 Pantsir-S1 A transportable antiaircraft gun and surface-to-air missile with a range of about 12 miles, this system can be used against a range of targets including cruise missiles, aircraft and helicopters. They were exported from Russia to Syria in August 2008. Numbers: 36 combat vehicles/launchers.

SA-17 Grizzly This missile system, with a range of up to 20 miles, includes an integrated radar that can engage multiple targets coming from various directions. Numbers: total of 10 launchers.

SA-26 Pechora-2M With an operational range of 17 miles, this missile system is better against maneuvering targets but is only effective at lower
altitudes. Numbers: total of 96 to 150 launchers and two missiles per launcher.

SA-2 Guideline An older technology, guided from the ground, these surface-to-air missiles are used against high altitude aircraft. Ranges vary but can be up to 28 miles. Numbers unknown. (LW Note: it may be old, but it can still kill you).

SA-6 Gainful A mobile antiaircraft system mounted on a tank-like vehicle, it has a range of about 15 miles. Numbers: four transporters each with three missiles and three gun systems.

SA-8 Gecko The system includes an integrated radar enabling it to independently track and engage aircraft, but it is limited to short ranges of about 9 miles. Numbers: four combat vehicle transports, each with six missiles and a three radar-guided antiaircraft guns.

SA-9 Gaskin A short-range infrared antiaircraft system that can hit targets up to 5 miles away. Numbers: four transporters, each with one missile and radar guided antiaircraft gun.

ORAC 4th May 2013 03:47

Israel has conducted airstrike in Syria - U.S. official

(Reuters) - Israel has conducted an airstrike in Syria, apparently targeting a building, a U.S. official said on Friday. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, declined to elaborate. CNN quoted two unnamed U.S. officials as saying Israel most likely conducted the strike "in the Thursday-Friday time frame" and that Israel's warplanes did not enter Syrian airspace.

CNN said the officials did not believe Israel had targeted a chemical weapons facility. CBS News cited U.S. sources as saying Israel targeted a warehouse.

There was no official confirmation. Syrian U.N. Ambassador Bashar Ja'afari told Reuters, "I'm not aware of any attack right now."

A White House spokeswoman referred questions on the CNN report to the Israeli government. The Pentagon declined comment.

In Jerusalem, an Israeli military spokeswoman said, "We do not comment on reports of this kind."

A spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington said, "We cannot comment on these reports, but what we can say is that Israel is determined to prevent the transfer of chemical weapons or other game-changing weaponry by the Syrian regime to terrorists, especially to Hezbollah in Lebanon." Hezbollah fought a 34-day war with Israel in 2006.

The CNN report said that during the time frame of the attack, the United States had collected information showing Israeli warplanes overflying Lebanon.

In January this year, Israel bombed a convoy in Syria, apparently hitting weapons destined for Hezbollah, according to diplomats, Syrian rebels and security sources in the region.

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