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-   -   Here it comes: Syria (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/513470-here-comes-syria.html)

GlobalNav 15th Oct 2019 23:17


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10593863)
So the Kurds have joined forces with the Syrian army to repel the Turks.
So you now have Russia supporting one side while actively seeking to support the other, how does that work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

For the Russians and the Soviets before that, anything that creates chaos and destruction makes space for them to seek their own ends - which likely is dominance in the region. It works whenever the west lets them get away with it.

Easy Street 16th Oct 2019 07:46


Originally Posted by GlobalNav (Post 10595293)
For the Russians and the Soviets before that, anything that creates chaos and destruction makes space for them to seek their own ends - which likely is dominance in the region. It works whenever the west lets them get away with it.

I’m no fan of the Assad regime, but equally I’m not convinced that assisting a UN-recognised Government to reassert control of its territory fits the definition of ‘creating chaos’. There has been chaos for sure, but the Russians didn’t create it. Most importantly, they have exploited it effectively because they had a clear and realistic end state in mind.

At the outset of the Syrian civil war (four years before the Russian deployment) General David Richards, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff at the time, advised that Western support to the opposition should be ‘all’ (i.e. topple the regime) or ‘nothing’. Anything else would, in his view, have simply prolonged the suffering of the Syrian people to no benefit for anyone. Time has proven him to be absolutely correct. But his view was dismissed by those in control of national security policy as ‘purist’. The ingrained realism of most military officers seems to be unwelcome in circles dominated by idealistic foreign policy specialists, to the recent detriment of Western strategy. (See his autobiography ‘Taking Command’).

NutLoose 16th Oct 2019 17:01

Nukes appear to still be in Turkey

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ion/ar-AAIRWK1

etudiant 16th Oct 2019 18:56


Originally Posted by Easy Street (Post 10595443)


I’m no fan of the Assad regime, but equally I’m not convinced that assisting a UN-recognised Government to reassert control of its territory fits the definition of ‘creating chaos’. There has been chaos for sure, but the Russians didn’t create it. Most importantly, they have exploited it effectively because they had a clear and realistic end state in mind.

At the outset of the Syrian civil war (four years before the Russian deployment) General David Richards, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff at the time, advised that Western support to the opposition should be ‘all’ (i.e. topple the regime) or ‘nothing’. Anything else would, in his view, have simply prolonged the suffering of the Syrian people to no benefit for anyone. Time has proven him to be absolutely correct. But his view was dismissed by those in control of national security policy as ‘purist’. The ingrained realism of most military officers seems to be unwelcome in circles dominated by idealistic foreign policy specialists, to the recent detriment of Western strategy. (See his autobiography ‘Taking Command’).

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as implemented by idealistic foreign policy specialists in LIbya, Syria, Serbia etc.
What is disheartening is that after more than a decade of disasters, there is still no one who questions the wisdom of the policies.

tartare 17th Oct 2019 00:59


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10595833)

Bit of a beat up I reckon.
I would just love to see what happened if Erdogan even remotely attempted to use a couple of B-61s as bargaining chips.

racedo 18th Oct 2019 16:51


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 10595931)
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as implemented by idealistic foreign policy specialists in LIbya, Syria, Serbia etc.
What is disheartening is that after more than a decade of disasters, there is still no one who questions the wisdom of the policies.

To question means you are supposedly appeasing an enemy that MSN will make up and claim you are supporting.

Same MSN stays quiet while Western weaponry is handed over to the same people who hack people to death on camera or bring down aeroplanes or buildings with people in them.

If Western intervention was about bringing peace / democracy and helping countrys to hold onto it. It is easily supported but seems only there to do bidding of others so people can make billions from it.

GlobalNav 19th Oct 2019 23:37


Originally Posted by etudiant (Post 10594391)
Is there any evidence these bombs are still in their bunkers?
I'd think no sensible leader would have left them there after kicking Turkey out of the F-35 program.

​​​​​​​And where might we find a sensible leader? Not within 300 feet of the White House.

jolihokistix 20th Oct 2019 11:09

Turkey's air force dropping white phosphorus and napalm?
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1571401/middle-east

golder 21st Oct 2019 04:23


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10597645)
To question means you are supposedly appeasing an enemy that MSN will make up and claim you are supporting.

Same MSN stays quiet while Western weaponry is handed over to the same people who hack people to death on camera or bring down aeroplanes or buildings with people in them.

If Western intervention was about bringing peace / democracy and helping countrys to hold onto it. It is easily supported but seems only there to do bidding of others so people can make billions from it.

There is no need to watch MSN. I wouldn't take news from one source anyways. I like variety. There are plenty of news outlets, both in US and in many countries that are credible.

What I am proud of, is Murdoch. An Adelaide boy, who took over his dads local low-volume newspaper called The News. He then made his name in the UK and is now the right wing puppet master of the world, through his publications and Fox News. He's telling Trump what to do. You have to love that. Even Barr went hat in hand to him recently.

ORAC 22nd Oct 2019 07:57

Turkish trained Nazis troops........



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