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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 10593863)
So the Kurds have joined forces with the Syrian army to repel the Turks. So you now have Russia supporting one side while actively seeking to support the other, how does that work? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901 |
Originally Posted by GlobalNav
(Post 10595293)
For the Russians and the Soviets before that, anything that creates chaos and destruction makes space for them to seek their own ends - which likely is dominance in the region. It works whenever the west lets them get away with it.
At the outset of the Syrian civil war (four years before the Russian deployment) General David Richards, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff at the time, advised that Western support to the opposition should be ‘all’ (i.e. topple the regime) or ‘nothing’. Anything else would, in his view, have simply prolonged the suffering of the Syrian people to no benefit for anyone. Time has proven him to be absolutely correct. But his view was dismissed by those in control of national security policy as ‘purist’. The ingrained realism of most military officers seems to be unwelcome in circles dominated by idealistic foreign policy specialists, to the recent detriment of Western strategy. (See his autobiography ‘Taking Command’). |
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
(Post 10595443)
I’m no fan of the Assad regime, but equally I’m not convinced that assisting a UN-recognised Government to reassert control of its territory fits the definition of ‘creating chaos’. There has been chaos for sure, but the Russians didn’t create it. Most importantly, they have exploited it effectively because they had a clear and realistic end state in mind. At the outset of the Syrian civil war (four years before the Russian deployment) General David Richards, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff at the time, advised that Western support to the opposition should be ‘all’ (i.e. topple the regime) or ‘nothing’. Anything else would, in his view, have simply prolonged the suffering of the Syrian people to no benefit for anyone. Time has proven him to be absolutely correct. But his view was dismissed by those in control of national security policy as ‘purist’. The ingrained realism of most military officers seems to be unwelcome in circles dominated by idealistic foreign policy specialists, to the recent detriment of Western strategy. (See his autobiography ‘Taking Command’). What is disheartening is that after more than a decade of disasters, there is still no one who questions the wisdom of the policies. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 10595833)
I would just love to see what happened if Erdogan even remotely attempted to use a couple of B-61s as bargaining chips. |
Originally Posted by etudiant
(Post 10595931)
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as implemented by idealistic foreign policy specialists in LIbya, Syria, Serbia etc.
What is disheartening is that after more than a decade of disasters, there is still no one who questions the wisdom of the policies. Same MSN stays quiet while Western weaponry is handed over to the same people who hack people to death on camera or bring down aeroplanes or buildings with people in them. If Western intervention was about bringing peace / democracy and helping countrys to hold onto it. It is easily supported but seems only there to do bidding of others so people can make billions from it. |
Originally Posted by etudiant
(Post 10594391)
Is there any evidence these bombs are still in their bunkers?
I'd think no sensible leader would have left them there after kicking Turkey out of the F-35 program. |
Turkey's air force dropping white phosphorus and napalm?
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1571401/middle-east |
Originally Posted by racedo
(Post 10597645)
To question means you are supposedly appeasing an enemy that MSN will make up and claim you are supporting.
Same MSN stays quiet while Western weaponry is handed over to the same people who hack people to death on camera or bring down aeroplanes or buildings with people in them. If Western intervention was about bringing peace / democracy and helping countrys to hold onto it. It is easily supported but seems only there to do bidding of others so people can make billions from it. What I am proud of, is Murdoch. An Adelaide boy, who took over his dads local low-volume newspaper called The News. He then made his name in the UK and is now the right wing puppet master of the world, through his publications and Fox News. He's telling Trump what to do. You have to love that. Even Barr went hat in hand to him recently. |
Turkish trained Nazis troops........
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ia-idlib-assad
Turkish soldiers killed as battle for control of Idlib escalates Six Turkish soldiers and at least 13 Syrian government troops have been killed as the two sides traded fire in Syria’s Idlib province, in a significant escalation in the battle to control the country’s last opposition stronghold. Turkey sent a large military convoy across its southern border into Idlib overnight in an effort to stem the bloodshed caused by a ferocious regime assault on the areaunder the cover of Russian airstrikes........ Artillery shelling on Turkish positions near the flashpoint town of Saraqeb early on Monday caused six casualties and injured seven more soldiers, the Turkish defence ministry said, adding that 30-35 troops fighting for Bashar al-Assad had been killed in retaliatory attacks. The war monitor the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights put the number of Syrian dead at 13, while the Syrian state news agency reported zero casualties. The Turkish military maintains 12 observation posts in Idlib to monitor an earlier ceasefire agreement that has since collapsed. The defence ministry said Turkish forces were sent to Idlib as reinforcement and attacked there despite prior notification of their coordinates to the local authorities. The claim was disputed by officials in Moscow, who said Ankara had failed to notify the Russian military about troop movements overnight in Idlib and that the Turkish troops were hit by Syrian fire that was directed at “terrorists”, a reference to al-Qaida-linked militants west of Saraqeb. While Turkey has intervened militarily in Syria three times to date in cross-border operations against Islamic State and US-backed Kurdish-led forces it regards as a terrorist threat, Monday’s clash was a rare direct confrontation against Assad’s troops and allied militias........ Speaking on Monday, the Turkish president said the operation in Idlib was ongoing and reiterated a warning to Assad’s backers in Moscow not to stand in the way of the Turkish action. “Those who test Turkey’s determination regarding Syria’s Idlib with such treacherous attacks will realise their mistake,” Recep Tayyip Erdoğan told reporters before his departure from Ankara for Ukraine. |
Originally Posted by racedo
(Post 10597645)
Same MSN stays quiet while Western weaponry is handed over to the same people who hack people to death on camera or bring down aeroplanes or buildings with people in them.
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Vortex Hoop
I should imagine the reference is to Saudi Arabia and Tornado, Typhoon, Paveway, Brimstone etc etc etc... |
I don't remember the Saudi Govt using western weaponry against us?! The 9/11 hijackers may have been Saudi but it wasn't state-sponsored. I know they have been a bit naughty in Yemen but I am confused over the poster's logic...
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Originally Posted by Vortex Hoop
(Post 10679684)
I know they have been a bit naughty in Yemen but I am confused over the poster's logic...
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/notasmod
For those interested: Military Aviation related things happening in Syria; initial reports indicate an air raid. |
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...aqeb-vqz30t85f
Turkey fires on Assad’s forces battling for key Syrian town of Saraqeb Turkish artillery has fired on Syrian regime troops that are fighting jihadists and other rebels in northwest Syria as Ankara is sucked deeper into the last stages of the civil war. A battle between Assad forces and rebels has been under way for two days in and around Saraqeb. The town, east of the city of Idlib, is an important point on the main highway from Aleppo to the south of Syria. Regime forces, backed by Russia, entered Saraqeb on Wednesday and their assault brought them close to a Turkish observation point. Turkish forces inside the compound, which was established to monitor the now failed ceasefire in Idlib province, hit regime positions with artillery. Rebels used the bombardment as cover for a counterattack, driving the army out of town....... President Erdogan has strongly criticised the regime offensive in the “Idlib pocket”, which covers Idlib province and slivers of Latakia and Aleppo. He has demanded that President Putin, with whom he agreed the supposed ceasefire in 2018, restrain the regime. Instead Mr Putin has ordered Russian jets to support the offensive. Yesterday Russia admitted suffering fatalities among its ground troops. Iranian-backed militias including Hezbollah are also fighting on the regime side. The jihadists and other rebels are gradually being pushed back. West of Saraqeb, the regime forces are a little over five miles from Idlib, the last provincial capital in rebel hands........ On Tuesday Mr Erdogan gave the regime until the end of the month to withdraw. An exchange of fire the previous day had cost eight Turkish lives. However, Mr Erdogan appears to be preparing for further confrontation, with Turkish reinforcements said to be pouring into Idlib from over the border......... Meanwhile Israeli airstrikes are hitting bases used by Iran, Assad’s other main ally. |
My guess is that Erdogan has at least a double aim here. The mass exodus of refugees towards Turkey being caused by the final Syrian push is the first and obvious one, and easier for him to articulate, but Idlib is the western end of that total corridor he wants to create south of his border with Syria, a permanent east-west DMZ or bufferzone several miles deep..
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Igor Konashenkov, an official Russian Defence Ministry spokesman, accused the Israeli military of "using the presence of civilian airliners as a shield against Syrian anti-aircraft fire" during air combat operations. |
https://www.theguardian.com/theobser...itarian-crisis
Turkey threatens to hit back as Assad advances in northern Syria ...........Yesterday Turkey’s defence ministry said it would strike back at regime troops and allied militias if its military posts in Syria’s northwest Idlib province were threatened, echoing President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s ultimatum last week that Assad must withdraw to a previously agreed ceasefire line before the end of February. Erdoğan’s communications director, Fahrettin Altun, said the escalation in Idlib – which led to the deaths of eight Turkish military personnel on Monday – was unacceptable. “We cannot tolerate what has been unfolding in Idlib. We will seek accountability for our martyrs,” he told a Turkey-Syria media forum in Istanbul yesterday. “Bashar al-Assad’s place in the future ... is not the presidential palace but the international court of justice at The Hague.”........ Turkey has intervened militarily in Syria three times in operations against Islamic State and US-backed Kurdish-led forces it regards as a terrorist threat, but has never attacked Assad’s troops and allied militias. Since Monday’s rare clash between Turkish and Syrian government forces, Ankara has urged Moscow to convince its Syrian allies to end the Idlib offensive. A Russian delegation was set to meet yesterday [Saturday] with Turkish officials to discuss the situation. Ankara has sent in 350 vehicles with commandos backed by armoured vehicles to beef up its 12 observation positions since Friday, state-run Anadolu news agency said, after officials reported that three had been surrounded by regime troops. “Despite their cooperation in several areas in Syria there are unfortunately many glaring communication issues between Ankara and Moscow,” said Dareen Khalifa, a senior Syria analyst at the International Crisis Group. “Russia and Assad are still pushing ahead with this offensive despite the fact Ankara has reiterated its red lines because they underestimate how vital stability in Idlib is for Turkey. Keeping the border shut is a huge national security concern”......... |
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