If you want an answer, apply. The only people who are qualified to give the say so are OASC's optometrists.

Just because the standards were brought into line with the FAA's, it doesn't mean they'll take you if they get another 100 applicants who have better eyes than you.

PotentialPilot:

You are joking, right???

The Mil forum on PPRuNe is a lesser source of information than E-Goat and ArRSe for a potential military pilot???

There's a reason you will always remain "potential"... :ugh:

The RAF are aware that wholey suitable pilot candidates have in the past been lost due to eyesight standards of expectation. They are also aware that most aircrew beyond age 40 wear spectacles without any deteriation of operational capability.

I am not an OASC Staff Officer and therefore do not have a finger on this particular pulse, but I was in a meeting in which the Chief of the Air Staff stated that aircrew eyesight issues were under review and that it was hoped that the outcome would be that the 'best man for the job' would get the job even if that meant entering into flying training wearing spectacles.

Therefore one can reasonably deduce that entry standards are fluid; can and do change. The bottom line is for all potential recruits to go to OASC and give 100% in all aspects of the selection process. It is impossible for you to self criticise, and you may well have done well in an interview that you perceive as the nightmare from hell. The medical aspects are objective and you will either pass or fail: simples.

Hi! Hopefully I can get some advice please, my brother wants to join as an Officer as he wanted to join as NCA but hasn't got maths B and has been told by AFCO that they're not recruting at the moment anyway. He's now looking at RAFP or Regt Offr but, whilst he's got the 5 GCSEs C>, he only has 1 A-level above a C, the other A-level is a D. He's got a music production degree at 2.1 however if it's worth anything.

Will he be wasting his time as the careers website specifically says 2 A-levels C> and doesn't mention degrees counting for much in those branches? I'm currently NCA and he's wanted to join for years but kept putting it off - it would be a shame if he'd missed the chance so any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, L

Letsgoandfly

He should be ok, the degree can be used to offset the A level deficiency. It can't be used to offset GCSEs, but can for A levels. Get him to ask the AFCO to double check with the education specialist at Cranwell.

Thanks OneFifty, the message has been passed on and he will investigate next week. Thanks again, L

Any news?
 

Afternoon all,
Just wondering if anyone in this forum has been to OASC recently since I was curious as to whether the process has changed much since i last went 2 and a half years ago. Also does anyone have any idea when they'll be looking for personnel support officers? Practically chomping at the bit here waiting to get the ball rolling with the application (I have registered for the forms through the telephone service).

Thanks in advance!

I must have had my head in the sand when they announced Admin Os were to be renamed "Personnel Support Officer"

Even as a serving officer, I hadn't realized just how much some of the trades had changed i.e. Aerospace Battle manager!? Aerospace Systems Operator - I'm guessing that's the old AATC?

Back in my day....grumble...whine

ABM I will give you but ASOps were around when you were still in shorts :}

I'd never heard of the ASOPs trade. I assumed it was a new variant of Assistant Air Traffic. Either shows my ignorance or the lack of visibility this trade gets on the dirty end of the RAF :)

Herc, very true. Unless you were associated with the trade you would never know. The majority lived as troglodites on the east coast and thought working at Waddo in buildings with windows was the bees knees.

OASC Bulletin 25
 

In the next 2 submissions we will cover details of the Potential Regiment Officers Course (PROC); success on the Course is a pre-requisite to be further considered for selection into the RAF Regiment as an officer. The first submission will cover an overview of why the PROC is conducted and the Physical Fitness Assessments. The second submission will look at the presentations and interview.

Potential Regiment Officers Course (PROC) - Part 1 of 2

What is the PROC?

The purpose of the PROC is to assess whether you have the motivation for the RAF Regiment and the potential for training on the Junior Regiment Officers’ Course (JROC). It will also allow you to have a closer look at the Regiment and decide if it is a suitable career path for you. A positive recommendation from the PROC is an essential pre-requisite for anyone seeking selection for a commission in the RAF Regiment.

If the RAF Regiment is your primary branch choice and you pass your filter interview, the AFCO will arrange a date for you to attend a PROC at RAF Honington. In most cases this will be prior to your visit to OASC. If the RAF Regiment is not your primary branch choice and you pass your filter interview, you will be called forward to OASC for selection for your all your branch choices. If you are unsuccessful for your primary choice(s) and still wish to be considered for RAF Regiment, a PROC will then be booked for you by OASC if it is considered you have shown enough potential for training.

How Do We Assess You on the PROC?

During the PROC your suitability for the RAF Regiment will be assessed in a number of areas:

Physical Fitness

Excellent Physical Fitness is essential to be a Regiment Officer. The first hurdle you will face on the PROC is the RAF Fitness Test (RAFFT). This consists of three elements; a Multi-Stage Fitness Test (bleep test), one minute of press-ups, one minute of sit-ups. Regardless of age, you must meet the minimum standard for an 18 year old male. Further details of the RAFFT can be found on the RAF Careers website. However, due to the high physical demands of RAF Regiment officer training and beyond, PROC candidates require levels of physical robustness and determination beyond those tested in the RAFFT. Therefore, while on the PROC, you will undertake several other physical assessments to determine if you have what it takes:

(1) A swimming assessment – this will involve showing that you are capable of swimming 4 lengths and treading water for 4 minutes.

(2) A five mile run in boots – this will be conducted as a squad as a run/walk in 2 legs, with a Physical Training Instructor (PTI) setting the pace. You will pass the test as long as you maintain a pace of around 9 minutes per mile and stay in formation.

(3) An Assault Course – you will complete a timed circuit, after receiving detailed instructions and demonstrations from a PTI. You must complete the course within the briefed time of just over 5 minutes. Significantly you must also show that you can successfully get over a 9ft wall unassisted.

(4) A 3 mile run in sports kit and trainers – this is undertaken in 2 stages. An outward 1½ mile run as a squad with the pace set by a PTI (≈ 8 min/mile pace) then, following a very short water break, a return leg of 1½ miles at your own best effort pace. You must complete this return leg in less than 10 minutes 30 seconds (minimum 7 min/mile pace).

(5) A battle fitness session called “Skirmish” – this is purely and simply a test of your determination in physical activities that are designed to replicate battlefield conditions. There is no minimum level or time that you are required to achieve but it is very demanding physically. You will pass providing that you don’t voluntarily remove yourself from the session.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

OASC Bulletin 26
 

Potential Regiment Officers Course (PROC) - Part 2 of 2

How Do We Assess You on the PROC? (cont)

Group Presentations

The ability to communicate confidently is a key skill required by all RAF Regiment officers. Therefore, your presence, confidence and bearing are assessed during a ten minute presentation. This presentation is prepared and delivered in groups and the topics are sent out with your joining instructions to enable you to undertake pre-course research.

Low Ropes Exercises

Teamwork, communication and leadership are key components for all aspiring RAF Regiment Officers. To assess your potential in these attributes, you will be given a variety of team tasks to complete on a Low Ropes course.

Interview

The final element of the course is an interview with an assessing officer. Your knowledge and motivation for joining the RAF Regiment will be explored. If you have been unsuccessful at any stage of the course you will be debriefed and the assessing officer will provide feedback on your performance, suggesting areas for you to improve before attempting the course again.

What Do We Present to You About the RAF Regiment?

The PROC also aims to give you enough information about the Branch for you to make an informed decision about whether it is the right career path for you at an early stage of the selection process. We make no bones about the fact that training to become an RAF Regiment Officer is extremely demanding both physically and mentally. You will only succeed if you are committed to Regiment as a career; it is in nobody’s interest to discover that it is not for you once you have started training. Therefore to develop candidates’ understanding of the RAF Regiment, as well as the process that lies ahead if you are successful on the PROC, there are a number of presentations that will be given to you between the assessed elements of the course. This is a great opportunity for you to look more closely at the RAF Regiment and (hopefully) confirm that this is the career for you. These presentations include:

(1) RAF Regiment. This will tell you about the capabilities of the RAF Regiment, and its role in current operations. This will also cover the career opportunities for officers within the RAF Regiment.

(2) Junior Regiment Officers Course (JROC). Delivered by current staff members, this will include the details of JROC and what to expect during your training with them.

(3) Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC). For those that pass the PROC, the next stage will be to undergo selection at OASC, RAFC Cranwell. An Officer from an Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO) will be on hand to deliver a presentation on the selection process and will also be available for you to ask any questions that you may have on the process.

(4) Initial Officer Training (IOT). This is a closed forum discussion in which a newly graduated officer will talk frankly about IOT and answer any questions you might have.

(5) Current Weapon Systems. The weapons systems currently employed by the RAF Regiment will be displayed. This will allow you to familiarise yourself with the dismounted close combat weapons systems you would learn to use whilst on JROC.

(6) Officers’ Mess Tour. On one evening, PROC candidates will receive an introduction to, and a tour of, the Officers’ Mess. This is where officers from RAF Honington live, eat and socialise. Current serving officers from the station, including some undergoing JROC if they are available, will be in attendance to answer any questions you may have.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

WSOp
 

Afternoon all,

That's me done playing around in the sand, and now Im back trying to get in as a WSOp. I recieved an email when I was two months shy of my tour finishing, but my recruiter at the AFCO told me to leave filling it in till I got back, now I'm back and obviously the trade is closed.

Im aware there are a few who work in recruiting/OASC who peruse this site, so my question is if anyone is able to give a rough timeframe for WSOp trade to open for recruiting again?

Many thanks.


(edited for fat, ape like, fingers.)

Judging by the "Pipeline Clogged" thread, I'm picking a sparkling time to join up!Really wish I'd ignored the AFCO and sent that application off in September!

PBI

The latest regarding WSOp is that we won't be recruiting for the role for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, I can't give you anything more specific than that. Remember, when it does open again, you'll need to have GCSE maths at grade B or above to apply.

Applying in September wouldn't have made any difference I'm afraid; we (the AFCOs) had to withdraw a lot of WSOp applicants during their application phase as there were no jobs for them. Even some who were in phase one training found themselves without a job...

OneFifty

Thanks for the swift response, it was as I expected.Looks like I have some serious thinking to do.

PBI

Rumours on vision criteria
 

TON,

Have a look at page 22 of this thread, post #436 onwards. Only the OASC medics can decide. However, with cutbacks/competition as it is I'd keep your options open.

H-u-L

OASC Bulletin 27
 

CHANGE IN ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS FOR ENTRY TO RAF IN APTITUDE RELATED BRANCHES AND AS OFFICERS.

The academic requirements for selection at OASC have recently been raised in 2 areas:

GCSE Mathematics for Aptitude Based Branches

All applicants for aptitude based branches are required to have achieved GCSE Mathematics Grade B, or equivalent.

Evidence shows that the likelihood of success in the numerical elements of the aptitude tests correlates strongly with achievement at Maths GCSE or equivalent: those that achieve Grade C generally fail to achieve the required standard in the aptitude tests – hence the numeracy requirement has been raised. In setting this standard, we are also aware that those taking the foundation level GCSE Maths will be unable to achieve the Grade B requirement, as this can only be reached through the Higher Tier syllabus.

In the context of the Scottish Standard Certificate in Education, the minimum standard is a Grade 2 in the Standard Grade Credit examinations.

Officer Entry – A-Level Requirement

The previous academic standard for entry to commissioned service was 2 A2-Levels at Grades A-E; this has now been raised to 2 A2-Levels at Grades A-C or equivalent. Whilst it could be argued that a Grade B and a Grade D should be aggregated together to equate the same level of achievement, our view is that this demonstrates an academic weakness in not achieving the Grade C minimum standard in each subject.

It has been noticed that those with A2 results at Grade D or below struggle with the analytical skills required of an officer. However, the majority of the population taking A-Levels achieve Grades C or above, and so that is the portion of the population we seek to recruit from, as this is expected to reduce the amount of additional instruction required to reach acceptable standards in training.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

Looks like i'm going to have to withdraw my application then. Only got an A and a D at A2. Going to have to get myself on a night course for a year or 2 then to get a C or above. First the medical 3-4 years ago and now the qualifications rules change just as I become medically eligable again! Oh well, just another hurdle I suppose!

Selection
 

This thread seems to be dying a slow death, but hopefully it can be revived one last time? Any information would be helpful.

TSM
 

On a variety of other threads, not to mention official briefings at work, There is currently a surplus of 200 pilot trainees in the system already.(and another 300 that we actually need)

Go figure.

CS

Selection
 

A very gloomy picture painted indeed. But as expected. It seems to be IFT that is backing everything up. Not getting the courses. A few friends have been waiting up to 6 months after IOT to get on a course.

Well I'm going to stick with the old saying "No news is good news". I can only keep my fingers crossed now.

TSM, if you are not at IOT then there is no good news. Do read the rest of the briefs. The information is very positive (ie not rumour) and there will be no new pilots in to training before Jul 12.

The age cutoff remains 25-11+ so you are still in with a chance but you will be in competition with many more applicants for the first course.

As you don't seem to have read up about the training pipeline, did you hoist on board the revised educational requirements?

Smegward

If you do not have 2 A levels at grade C or above, I am amazed you haven't received a letter informing you that your application is closed. You should check with your AFCO, I am certain they will confirm that your application has already been terminated as the instruction was received be AFCOs before Christmas. This forum was informed by me at that time, later confirmed by the posts by OASC.

Sorry, but that is the harsh reality of the current situation.

OneFifty

Selection
 

Thanks again for your response PN. I did spot the educational requirements, and after my costly abbreviation error (EFT by the way), I am good to go. Thought I'd have another browse of the thread but after looking through again i'm not sure I spotted any relevant comments regarding pilot selection. Your post number 385 refers to WSOp, but I thought there might be some more specific information for Pilot.

Anyway reading through all the posts it sounds as though its a question of waiting. From a management point of view, if I were in OASCs position, i'd be doing the exact same thing. Plenty of applicants, not enough places, and everyone willing to wait as long as it takes.

Has anyone been accepted outright in the last few months? That would be a question i'd like the answer to? I've heard on the grape vine its a score of 140'ish in the aptitudes (obviously with everything else in your favour too) to be in with a chance at the moment.

TSM, look at Training Pipeline Clogged for a really depressing view.

TSM,

At the moment a score of 125 on the aptitude is considered competitive. To clarify, anyone scoring less than 125 is told not to expect any further progression, an uncharacteristicly kind way of saying their application is 99% likely to be terminated.

However, I'd hazard that any less than 130-135 probably doesn't set you up very well.

As with all things RAF it all depends. Lets say you scored 126 aptitude, but filter was brilliant and you got on well at OASC. You would probably do better than someone who scored 155 aptitude but who had the social skills of a dead salmon.

It all depends, and there is absolutely no point in trying to second guess what's going on or what your chances are mate, a lot of us are in the same (possibly sinking, or built and then just kept as a £3bn paperweight) boat.

Sit tight and wait it out would be my advice. :cool:

Edit: Further advice would be to not expect any physical movement until 2012.

To add 4015's sound advice, use the time to make yourself more competitive.

A number of years ago we had a young woman from one of the High Street Banks who thought she would like a career change to Fighter Control. She organised her own tour to Waddo and the Radar Sites. She was so impressive that we considered she should have been recruited immediately.

I don't know if we measured up to her requirements.

Look to things that will improve your fitness, your leadership skills, inter-personal skills etc etc

Hi

I went through OASC at the end of November for Pilot, and was then placed under further consideration, to be reviewed in Jan 2011. I haven't heard anything yet, but I'm starting to read rumors and hear that Pilots in training are starting to loose their jobs, so what hope is there for me? I have also heard that Pilot Recruitment would be frozen until 2013. Does that mean I could be offered a place for 2013, or would it be a case of reapplying in 2 years time?

Cheers

GW

Frozen? 2013? Have you read any of the recent posts on this thread??!

Sorry OneFifty, only just seen the above posts!

Thanks

GW

Oacs Candidates And Wanabees.
 

To all you young people hoping for a flying career in today's RAF. The doom and gloom of the current defence cut-backs is obviously having an effect on your potential flying careers.

However, while you're waiting, and it might be a lengthy wait or even never, have you thought about contacting your local Air Training Corps squadron or Wing HQ and asking if they need and adult assistance ?

They could be looking for officers, which means you could apply for a commission in the RAFVR(T) branch. Not for the faint hearted because it involves pitching up for duty after the normal working day a couple of times a week and often at weekends, plus various courses and cadet camps from time to time.

Initial officer training following successful selection is carried our at RAF Cranwell, giving you the chance to pick the brains of the regular officer cadets while learning at least the basics of life as an RAF officer. It would also look good on your CV should OACS at a later date give you a call.

I did exactly that in reverse following a 24 year career as an RAF armourer. At the age of 45 I became a very new, shiney Plt. Off. and six months later took command of one of the overseas squadrons of the ATC in Germany (Cold War Warrior) later becoming a Wing Staff Officer with added responsibilities.

From your point of view as young men with ambitions to serve in today's RAF, a little extra on your CV could be a great help. A DofE award, voluntary service as mentioned, it all shows motivation and adaptability beyond the educational qualifications required. During my 11 years service as an RAFVR(T) officer I knew of several incidences where a number of the younger officers successfully transfered to regular commissions.

As a Wing Staff Officer, I chaired a number of application boards for VR(T) commissions. Interviewing younger men and women, the board always looked for something beyond the applicants basic reason for applying. In this instance, what had he or she to offer a youth organisation beyond looking spick and span in uniform.

Just a thought from one of the ancient and tattered airmen on this site.

Dear Posters,

I see that most of the previous posts are with regards to mostly RAF and some RN aircrew roles.

I am indeed interested in flying in the British Army. Could anybody here give some scope whether the Army Air Corps have been affected by the SDSR? I have heard from some reliable sources that the AAC have in fact not been affected as the output of pilots on courses at Shawbury or/and Middle Wallop have not changed.

Thank you for your responses in advanced.

With Kind Regards,

AS

OASC Bulletin 28
 

In this submission we will outline a revision to the new selection process employed at the OASC.

In essence, the sequence of the selection process remains unchanged. However, due to the increase in length of the aptitude batteries, flexibility was unavailable within the programme to encompass the extra time taken by candidates undergoing aptitude testing; therefore a decision was taken to separate aptitude testing from the remainder of the selection process. Consequently, a candidate applying for an aptitude branch might need to visit the OASC twice, as follows:

Aptitude Phase: Candidates who are applying for one or more aptitude based branches, and have passed an AFCO P2 filter interview, (and AST Band F or E if applying for WSOp or DE SNCO ATC) will be invited to attend the OASC to sit the Computer Based Aptitude Tests. Those who are unsuccessful in the tests for their branch choices, and are only applying for aptitude based branches will be filtered out at this stage; however, candidates may retake the tests after a minimum of 12 months has elapsed. Those who pass the aptitude tests for one or more of their branch choices might be called forward to return to the OASC to undergo the Exercise Phase, if they are deemed competitive.

Exercise and Interview Phase: On the first day, candidates will complete all elements of the Exercise Phase: Discussion, Group Planning, Leaderless, Command Situation and Individual Planning as outlined in OASC PPRuNe Submissions 11-14. Early on the second day, candidates will be informed whether they will be continuing in the selection process. Those who have demonstrated enough potential for training at this stage will be invited to stay to complete their Interview, Medical and Selection Fitness Test on the second day. The remainder, who have not met the required standard, will be given a one-on-one review by the Board President to explain to them where they fell short of the required standard and how they can improve, if they chose to re-apply.

Candidates who complete the full process will be informed by letter within a few weeks of their selection visit informing them of the outcome.

In sum, for candidates aspiring to a career in only one or more aptitude based branches, a competitive performance in one or more of their branch choices might lead to them being recalled to the OASC to complete the selection process; therefore, for these candidates, 2 visits to the OASC might be required. For those seeking selection only to non-aptitude based branches, a single visit only is required – because aptitude testing is not necessary. For those with both aptitude based branches and non-aptitude based branches, a lack of competitiveness in the aptitude tests might still lead to them being recalled to complete the selection process for one or more of their non-aptitude based choices.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

Declaring cautions for RAF application
 

Good evening gents,

I'm in the process of applying to the RAF as an officer. In my younger days I received a police caution for criminal damage. It was a stupid thing to do, and of course I've regretted it ever since.

I want to be as honest as is necessary throughout my application, but am querying whether I will have to declare a caution on my paperwork. I understand one must declare unspent convictions, but for most branches you don't have to declare spent convictions. However, I'm in the dark about a caution, since it's not technically a conviction. Furthermore, if I was to declare the caution, would it serve as a potential 'disqualifier' in the application process? I was just seeking some advice on that matter really.

I don't mean to be rude (far from it), but I'd prefer it if people don't comment just to say "You don't deserve to be accepted" etc. I know what I did was totally wrong, and if that costs me my intended career, so be it.

I thank you in advance for any advice you can give.

Regards,

L91

Fair question and brave of you to post. I think I could answer it, but am not 100% sure so you had better leave it to the professionals so my wrong answer doesn't cock up your future.

Copy it as a new post at the end of the Military Aircrew forum sticky "OASC candidates read here" and someone will probably be able to answer you better.

Good luck with it.

As you state, a caution is not a conviction. There are currently effectively two types of caution, a conditional caution and a 'simple' caution.

A conditional caution (providing the conditions are complied with and there is no subsequent prosecution for the offence) becomes spent three months after it is given and all other cautions become spent when they are given.

As conditional cautions are a relatively recent invention I suspect that you received a simple caution and this became spent the moment you received it. The caution would remain on your record and had you committed a further offence within a period of two years the fact of the caution could have been used in deciding whether or not to prosecute.

If the form indicates that you do not need to disclose spent convictions you will not need to disclose a spent caution.

In order to give you an accurate answer, I need to know the following:

- What branch you are applying for
- how long ago it happened
- how old you were when you did it.

Feel free to pm me if you'd prefer.

OneFifty.