Red Arrows Replacement............
Joined: Jul 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 65
Likes: 51
From: UK
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 95
Likes: 32
From: East Riding
Sorry for the late reply.
I’m sure you will know by now that I’m a big fan of the Hawk as a training jet and it worked brilliantly for everything the RAF had up to and including Typhoon (certainly in its early days). It’s still doing a good job now.
For the future though the Hawk would need such a redesign in terms of manoeuvrability and sensors (simulated or otherwise) that it would effectively become a new aircraft and it would be just as easy to start from scratch.
Remember that the Hawk IS a dead project so this is a moot point but it could do a good job with a significant avionics upgrade and skip the handling side of things.
The idea of an avionics enhancement has been talked about since the early days of the T2 and I can’t imagine it has progressed any further.
BV
I’m sure you will know by now that I’m a big fan of the Hawk as a training jet and it worked brilliantly for everything the RAF had up to and including Typhoon (certainly in its early days). It’s still doing a good job now.
For the future though the Hawk would need such a redesign in terms of manoeuvrability and sensors (simulated or otherwise) that it would effectively become a new aircraft and it would be just as easy to start from scratch.
Remember that the Hawk IS a dead project so this is a moot point but it could do a good job with a significant avionics upgrade and skip the handling side of things.
The idea of an avionics enhancement has been talked about since the early days of the T2 and I can’t imagine it has progressed any further.
BV
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,910
Likes: 129
From: Here
The great John Farley wrote an interesting critique on here as to why the Hawk (and especially the wing) was not suitable for a 21st Century trainer. The proposed Advanced Hawk for India may have addressed some of those issues, but it’s a dead duck.
The T-7 might be an option, but has its own woes. The fact the M346 has its origins in a joint project with Russia back in the day shouldn’t count against it. It’s in-service and seems to be quite liked by it’s users.
The T-7 might be an option, but has its own woes. The fact the M346 has its origins in a joint project with Russia back in the day shouldn’t count against it. It’s in-service and seems to be quite liked by it’s users.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,536
Likes: 295
From: The Alps
Dont laugh, West Coast I was impressed with seeing the then new UAEAF L-15 Falcon perform at Dubai Air Show 2023 (my pics below)
At Dubai Air show 2021, (first proper air show head on the heels of the pandemic), saw the Jl-15 for the first time as China keen to export it.
cheers
At Dubai Air show 2021, (first proper air show head on the heels of the pandemic), saw the Jl-15 for the first time as China keen to export it.
cheers
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,458
Likes: 368
From: Wildest Surrey
It's Italian in origin.; Franco Bonazzi and Ricardo Durione who used to display every Farnborough Airshow must have had a hand developing it; they looped and rolled the PD 808 bizjet.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,466
Likes: 188
From: 11 GROUP
Firebirds 'Twinkle Roll'
Mind you the ATC could rise to occasions if required, and did so at a Swanton Morley Aero club display in the 60's.
An unlikely combination of two Cadet MK3 and a Slingsby Swallow.
The Mk3's were aero towed into position by a couple of Tiger Moths and the Swallow was winch launched up between them on the run in.
No practice or briefing other than the winch driver was instructed by a pye radio in the cab.
No one had realised that the radio was inaudible with the winch engine running and therefore the lone staff cadet had to 'wing it' so to speak and give it full chat when it looked right.
The Mk3's/ Tigers hove into sight and then the Swallow was launched through the gap and slightly behind at which point the Tigers broke off and the Swallow slipped into the lead (no doubt with suitable use of the air brakes). This unusual formation then proceeded to do a couple of descending formation turns over the field and then broke with the Swallow giving a fly past. The fretwork fighters were stars of the day, and had included Ladley and King who no doubt wished they still had their Tempests, Hurricanes, and Spitfires to play with. The lone winching staff cadet in true ATC tradition was of course forgotten and had to walk back to the hangar. In fact later in the week he was rewarded by being sent off in the Swallow as a treat, and a wonderful treat it was !!!
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,458
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From: Wildest Surrey
One Farnborough, there was a display consisting of a motor glider towing a sailplane. The motor glider had a retractable towline and displayed in synchro.
The sailplane pilot was the late Chis Rollings who started as a staff cadet with 613 (Halton) GS and became a national coach with the BGA.
He and I were on the same ATC Squadron (2204 Chesham) and I was a minor staff cadet alongside him.
He was the second ever instructor to be awarded 'B' Cat wings while still a cadet.
The sailplane pilot was the late Chis Rollings who started as a staff cadet with 613 (Halton) GS and became a national coach with the BGA.
He and I were on the same ATC Squadron (2204 Chesham) and I was a minor staff cadet alongside him.
He was the second ever instructor to be awarded 'B' Cat wings while still a cadet.
Last edited by chevvron; 24th April 2025 at 16:46.
Joined: Dec 2012
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Co. Down
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
I recall rather a surprising display at an RAF Air Show once - 4 Chipmunks of East Midlands University Air Squadron flew a superb synchronised formation display. It wasn't close formation, but a very cleverly synchronised series of manoeuvres. It was a brilliantly novel display!
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,458
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From: Wildest Surrey
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 76
From: Number 10 No longer
Joined: Dec 2015
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 875
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From: Budapest
Surely, in terms of inspiring young people to join the RAF, even just one, doing spectacular things, regularly, across the Country would be enough to generate a "I want to do that"?