Undervalued Engineers?
Joined: Dec 2012
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Co. Down
Just noticed the posts on tools, the engineer's bread and butter. My father, whose toolbox included one or two for pre-war biplanes, and another which became widely produced on-station for Hurricane tubing battle damage, allowed me to try the pump-action screwdriver mentioned on a scrap panel. One attempt was enough and he admitted he could not use the damn thing himself. The socket set was the first tool which was a really practical replacement for the box spanners used until (I think) around 1950 in the RAF at any rate. Ratchets etc had to be booked out from Stores.
Anyone remember the socket-set beginnings? Today of course we can buy a serviceable set for £50 or less, my first set of BSF and BSW cost me two weeks' wages.
Anyone remember the socket-set beginnings? Today of course we can buy a serviceable set for £50 or less, my first set of BSF and BSW cost me two weeks' wages.
Joined: Jul 2022
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Down Sarf
Heathen kit. I have a screw shaker that sorts out any fastener. Don't use it on composite panels mind. The Jaguar was an example. Riggers, you can only use a speedy. Armourers and Sooties were using impact drivers to remove the same bloody 5/16" and 3/8" offset machine screws. I borrowed an impact driver off the sooties on day to take off the the L/E panels off a Jag wing. A job that took 2 blokes, two days with speedys, took me a morning. Of course I have screw grab now that the RAF didn't have.
Joined: Jul 2022
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Down Sarf
When 103MU was struck off in 1975 the tool store held items stored from the early 1920s when the MU was called X Depot in Egypt, we had to load up lighters to dump all this junk off shore, Audax rigging boards and beautifully made brass things in mahogany boxes were all chucked overboard.
One of the main tasks on the MU was to drill holes in things, all alloy, manganese steel, brass and extrusions, the standard RAF windy drill could only be selected ON or OFF, ON gave a very high RPM and this could only be reduced by kinking the airline to restrict air supply, absolute rubbish. I later bought a lovely pistol grip windy which was perfect for all jobs and offered complete control, used it for years and it cost about fifty quid in the early 80s, how this would have improved the job time and quality of the job on the MUs.
One of the main tasks on the MU was to drill holes in things, all alloy, manganese steel, brass and extrusions, the standard RAF windy drill could only be selected ON or OFF, ON gave a very high RPM and this could only be reduced by kinking the airline to restrict air supply, absolute rubbish. I later bought a lovely pistol grip windy which was perfect for all jobs and offered complete control, used it for years and it cost about fifty quid in the early 80s, how this would have improved the job time and quality of the job on the MUs.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Blighty
One of the main tasks on the MU was to drill holes in things, all alloy, manganese steel, brass and extrusions, the standard RAF windy drill could only be selected ON or OFF, ON gave a very high RPM and this could only be reduced by kinking the airline to restrict air supply, absolute rubbish..
Thought police antagonist
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,574
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From: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Given most of us have some involvement in BDR, if at all possible could you elaborate on this please ?
" and another which became widely produced on-station for Hurricane tubing battle damage,"
True, the pistol grip windy was by far the best option, IF, space / access permitted and, as others have said, "controlling" the speed of other windies by kinking the air hose was fine, until, the hose went "pop ! " in the vicinity of your hand.
However, as I've said before, RAF tools were embarrassing when compared to other nations, likewise ground equip, some of which seem to be dated back to the 40's / 50's.
You got the impression "every expense spared" was the motto for procurement and, by doing so, displayed why engineers are / were, undervalued.
" and another which became widely produced on-station for Hurricane tubing battle damage,"
True, the pistol grip windy was by far the best option, IF, space / access permitted and, as others have said, "controlling" the speed of other windies by kinking the air hose was fine, until, the hose went "pop ! " in the vicinity of your hand.
However, as I've said before, RAF tools were embarrassing when compared to other nations, likewise ground equip, some of which seem to be dated back to the 40's / 50's.
You got the impression "every expense spared" was the motto for procurement and, by doing so, displayed why engineers are / were, undervalued.
Joined: Jul 2022
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Down Sarf
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 57
From: Anglia
The Centre Seats all ended up in the STN Role Equipment Bay in “Mobility” stores - I found one of those Tool Boxes (no tools) in a 7 Sqn Bin - Fixed the hinge on it and I still have it for some of my metalwork kit! - Probably up for sale soon!
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Grollie bars, was that the contraption we used on the VC10 wing tank panels,
when you got a screw out you screwed the vertical bar in its place, on that there was a split hinged horizontal bar of some length, it contained a floating extension on which you would put a screwdriver socket, on the top you would put an extension and a ratchet handle / breaker bar If I remember correctly. One man would put his weight / strength into forcing the bar down and hence the screwdriver bit into the screw while the other person attempted to undo it.
when you got a screw out you screwed the vertical bar in its place, on that there was a split hinged horizontal bar of some length, it contained a floating extension on which you would put a screwdriver socket, on the top you would put an extension and a ratchet handle / breaker bar If I remember correctly. One man would put his weight / strength into forcing the bar down and hence the screwdriver bit into the screw while the other person attempted to undo it.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 38
Likes: 7
From: Oop t’North
Grollie Bars - Tool of ‘next to last’ resort. Then came the Easy Outs. Harrier high torque screws were a nightmare, once you managed to get a drill bit to the right cutting angles for those screws , you hung onto it for life. Not great tool control though.
Joined: Jul 2022
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Down Sarf
Joined: Jan 2019
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 805
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From: Cumbria
It's exactly 25 years since I made the hyper-space jump from RAF SNCO to unqualified airline mechanic. Coupled with the transition from Section L to EASA that was going on, the route to achieving my unrestricted licence was an ordeal.
With the advent of dual airworthiness certified aircraft like P-8/737, Atlas, King Air, and the MAA, is there any better commonality now between military technician training syllabi, certification and qualification that makes the transition easier?
With the advent of dual airworthiness certified aircraft like P-8/737, Atlas, King Air, and the MAA, is there any better commonality now between military technician training syllabi, certification and qualification that makes the transition easier?
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 264
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From: Hedge
I worked with some Aussie guys whose technical type training on Bell 205 in Aus Army and Air Force was recognised by CASA as soon as they left and obtained licence.
Probably all changed now since CASA started following EASA procedures.
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
It's exactly 25 years since I made the hyper-space jump from RAF SNCO to unqualified airline mechanic. Coupled with the transition from Section L to EASA that was going on, the route to achieving my unrestricted licence was an ordeal.
With the advent of dual airworthiness certified aircraft like P-8/737, Atlas, King Air, and the MAA, is there any better commonality now between military technician training syllabi, certification and qualification that makes the transition easier?
With the advent of dual airworthiness certified aircraft like P-8/737, Atlas, King Air, and the MAA, is there any better commonality now between military technician training syllabi, certification and qualification that makes the transition easier?
The RAF Licenced Engineers such as on the Shadow fleet have their powers “throttled” in the RAF I believe to justify the existence of Engineering Officers who simply do not exist in the real world, that task being undertaken by Licenced Engineers. As was previously pointed out to me
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,131
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From: Anglia
Having seen civil apprentice training, I'd say the MOD curriculum is eons behind in so many respects. However, the experiences gained on RAF Line Units (Forward Units?) through their intense over-servicing of aircraft is enormous compared to that of civil LAMEs. I remember that almost all Ryanair Lineys gathered one night at Stansted to take part in the very rare event of changing an aileron!!