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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Old 2nd Jun 2023, 18:20
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Agreed. Even shopping in Stamford, very near to RAF Wittering, the sighting of a uniform is rather infrequent. The most likely sighting scenario is the school Cadet day.
The services are indeed virtually invisible.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 18:49
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I wonder how much is being done by MoD/ Individual Services to look at other countries to see how they tackle balanced recruiting. Looking at the USAF (Inc Space Force) (2021 statistics) they seem to be have been good at recruiting black enlisted females and Asian female officers but not so good at recruiting black male officers.

Active Service Personnel

Female (50.5% of US population)
  • All 21.3%
  • OF 22.6%
  • OR 20.9%
Black/African American (excluding multi-racial) (13.6% of US population)
  • All 14.8%
  • Female 21.0%
  • Male 13.1%
  • OF 6.2%
    • Female 10.6%
    • Male 5.0%
  • OR 16.9%
    • Female 23.7%
    • Male 15.1%
Asian (excluding multi-racial includes Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi, Chinese, Japanese, Philippino, SEA etc) (6.1% of US population)
  • All 4.4%
  • Female 5.1%
  • Male 4.2%
  • OF 5.5%
    • Female 7.0%
    • Male 5.1%
  • OR 4.2%
    • Female 4.6%
    • Male 4.0%
https://www.militaryonesource.mil/da...-demographics/

Last edited by SLXOwft; 2nd Jun 2023 at 19:08.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 20:57
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when a Corporal on the Typhoon display team said to her last year “ You’ll never fly with the RAF as you’re a girl”
Did you consider it was perhaps a bit of service banter to encourage rather than discourage? I've said a few similar things to my kids over the years to wind them up, and they've usually taken the bait and proved me wrong.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 21:48
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
When I was at Finningley, in the run up to Christmas if you saw ISS on the flying programme it meant ‘In Sheffield Shopping.’ DOCS was ‘Day Off Christmas Shopping.’ There were others but time and alcohol has dulled the memory. Apologies for the thread drift.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 22:00
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Facts?

Originally Posted by Uplinker
According to census data; 82% of the UK population are white, so the vast majority of applicants in the UK will be white: Out of 10 applicants, 8.2 will be white and 1.8 will be BAME.

So what is this bloke Harwin on about? Why does he want to artificially change the recruitment proportions of the RAF? What will that achieve, operationally?

Artificially skewing recruitment racial proportions is racist, which I didn't think was allowed? Skewing the recruitment gender proportions is sexist; ditto.

If there is a problem - say, no female or BAME applicants at all - then the place to change teenager's perceptions about future working life and careers is at home and at school. At school, our careers advice was a 10 minute chat with a disinterested person in the last weeks of our last year. Far too little and far too late.

Careers and future working life need to be thought about and discussed well before then. Perhaps that happens now?
Uplinker

you mustn’t let the facts (census data etc) get in the way of a good meejah story.

Simply watch any recent Programme on TV - especially the commercial channels. All the ‘families’ and groups portrayed in the commercials and most dramas these days are BAME or at the very least of ‘mixed race’ construct. That ludicrous 82% figure is clearly racist misinformation put about by ‘us Aged Wasps’ and the residual gammons of the blob establishment.

As for the Beebski? Well, they don’t need the adverts and they have their own agenda of course.

meanwhile, in Ukraine……




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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 22:42
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My name is Parminder, which should tell you what I look like, and I am female. I would have joined the RAF to scrub the floors. I had a Cranwell date with every hope of being able to fly, and I withdrew last year because of exactly this.

My parents came to this country in part to give me a better chance and I wanted to give something back and on that basis it feels like about the biggest betrayal possible. I was told I needed to be a reliable and trustworthy person with principles, and I did everything I could to be that person. Now it feels like the organisation which was telling me that was itself not very reliable nor trustworthy and did not have the courage to support its own principles.

I don't want to be a token minority to advance someone else's career or be in a job that I don't even know if I'm really competent to do. I don't want everyone I work with to think hmm, is she actually any good, or is she here for political reasons. I do not want any white males I happen to work with to assume I think they're "useless white males." I don't. Nobody asked me if I wanted this and I don't. I want to succeed on my own merits, I've worked for them. I am not doing it. They can find someone else.
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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 22:53
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Originally Posted by snapper41
A good friend of mine retired from the Fire Service recently after 30 years. For most of that time he says that the Service went through hoops to recruit more BAME firefighters, but no scheme was successful. The problem was that the Fire Service was not seen as a ‘good’ career, unlike doctor, lawyer, pharmacist etc. I suspect the same applies for the military - this is as much about the culture of certain communities as anything else. You can lead a horse to water…
I can tell you that is absolutely spot on. I had a (white, male) colleague manning (oops) a stand at a careers day in a West Yorkshire further education college. He attempted to engage with a group of young Asian females........extolling the virtues of a rewarding career in the fire service. He was somewhat incredulous that when he suggested said career, they looked at him as if he'd just dropped his guts. Another colleague had to explain to him, why they treated his suggestion with utter contempt. It's not your average white male who needs "enlightening"......it's those with some firmly held cultural beliefs.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 00:59
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The problem for Western militaries is not the lack of BAME recruitment, it is the lack of good young adult recruits from all races including white males, One thing is for sure, thinking if only the military was just like it was in 1960 everything will be better is delusional.

Young people think and act differently than old white guys. Until the recruiting system gets serious about thinking about what will actually attract young people, all branches will struggle.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 03:08
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Has Sql Harwin self determined that he is not a 'useless white male pilot', and for his method of determining whiteness, can he display the colour chart he used.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 06:48
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Angry Kick in the Stones

Originally Posted by Bob Viking
I agree with you. However, in order to get through my days without grinding my teeth down I need to go back to remembering two key things.

1. I’m not in the RAF any more so I needn’t worry what they’re up to and I have no power to change it if I did.

2. Times have changed and recruitment policies and demographics have changed so I should stop concerning myself with stuff that won’t affect me.

Best of luck to the RAF and, for the love of God, can someone find this Sqn Ldr moron named in the article and give him a good hard kick in the stones. I’m sure there are a bunch of white male pilots who could do a pretty good job of doing that even if they are, allegedly, not useful for anything else.

BV
according to the GAL, said individual is now at HWY. But he seems to have had the good sense to go ‘silent and deep’ as this ‘Useless white pilot’ for one is quite interested in asking him what he meant..
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 08:42
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Originally Posted by Matt48
Has Sql Harwin self determined that he is not a 'useless white male pilot', and for his method of determining whiteness, can he display the colour chart he used.
It is entirely possible Sqn Ldr Andrew Harwin isn't a pilot. But he is clearly useless.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 08:52
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Sqn Ldr Andrew Harwin

I would like to think that everyone in the RAF has tried CTRL-K against his name by now and sent him a message. I don’t know him at all but I have a pretty clear image in my head regarding what kind of person he is.

🔔

BV
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 08:58
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What happens if you’re a useless white male but self identifies as black or Asian?
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 09:04
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Useless white males + Black and White MInstrels make up box = diversity targets met
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 09:53
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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoNeverWas
My name is Parminder, which should tell you what I look like, and I am female. I would have joined the RAF to scrub the floors. I had a Cranwell date with every hope of being able to fly, and I withdrew last year because of exactly this.

My parents came to this country in part to give me a better chance and I wanted to give something back and on that basis it feels like about the biggest betrayal possible. I was told I needed to be a reliable and trustworthy person with principles, and I did everything I could to be that person. Now it feels like the organisation which was telling me that was itself not very reliable nor trustworthy and did not have the courage to support its own principles.

I don't want to be a token minority to advance someone else's career or be in a job that I don't even know if I'm really competent to do. I don't want everyone I work with to think hmm, is she actually any good, or is she here for political reasons. I do not want any white males I happen to work with to assume I think they're "useless white males." I don't. Nobody asked me if I wanted this and I don't. I want to succeed on my own merits, I've worked for them. I am not doing it. They can find someone else.

Parminder, that is a tragic situation and a very sobering account. I wish there was a way of changing your mind back to your original intention.

Unfortunately, owing to the sort of people and institutions we have been discussing, it is going to take some brave people like you to be pathfinders to show these idiots how wrong their prejudices are.

In two careers, (television broadcasting and airline flying), I have worked alongside female and BAME engineers/pilots; some of whom have been my bosses, (and some of those bosses were also younger than me as well). Anybody who passed selection and worked to improve themselves once in the job, were and are, perfectly fine people to work with.

I genuinely hope you will reconsider and become a much needed trailblazer.



Last edited by Uplinker; 3rd Jun 2023 at 10:54. Reason: missing punctuation
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 12:00
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Two observations;

Recruiting begins in school with interest being stirred by careers teachers/advisors. Given that most teachng staff are thoroughly left wing and many anti establishment too is it any wonder the Services are simply made invisible to schoolkids at that level?

Wit regard to “ You’ll never fly with the RAF as you’re a girl” it occurs to me that if the young lady was permanently put off by that one remark it's pretty clear she didn't ahve the character to survive, let alone thrive in the military in the first place.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 12:53
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Consider the USAF demographics for its Active Duty Personnel to the RAF.

The USAF made a concerted effort many years ago to recruit Females and was quite successful in part due to the nature of service in the Air Force as compared to the other military services.

https://www.afpc.af.mil/Portals/70/d...HFB9sobg%3d%3d
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 13:03
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Agreed. Even shopping in Stamford, very near to RAF Wittering, the sighting of a uniform is rather infrequent. The most likely sighting scenario is the school Cadet day.
The services are indeed virtually invisible.
I don't know about RN and Army but RAF personnel are specifically told NOT to go shopping etc whilst wearing uniform; any people you see in RAF uniform they're usually Air Cadets.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 13:20
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I don't know about RN and Army but RAF personnel are specifically told NOT to go shopping etc whilst wearing uniform; any people you see in RAF uniform they're usually Air Cadets.
Not true. I don’t know where you have been told that. I’ve travelled on the train to Main Building in uniform. Your information is about 20 years out of date.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 13:23
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I don't know about RN and Army but RAF personnel are specifically told NOT to go shopping etc whilst wearing uniform; any people you see in RAF uniform they're usually Air Cadets.
I thought THE TROUBLES were more or less over
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