‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told
Yes. The frangible hatch was a late modification to just some Sea Vixen FAW 2s to allow the observer to eject through it rather than having his seat launch delayed whilst the hatch was jettisoned.
The 'Vixen in which I flew had not been so modified.
The 'Vixen in which I flew had not been so modified.
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Refer to the London Gazette for `Lt Cdr Alan Tarver,GM,RN`,for problems ejecting from the Vixen..
Al was a TP at AAEE later
He died earlier this year....
Sorry ,can`t do links....
Al was a TP at AAEE later
He died earlier this year....
Sorry ,can`t do links....
On the 16/06/64 at the age of 15 as a member of 781 ATC Squadron I flew in an Air Display aboard Shackelton WR977 out of St Mawgan. By memory I think it was over Exeter. (We didn't land just a few beat-ups). The pilot's name was Fielding. I sat in the nose gunners' position with two 20mm cannon barrels leading the way. So, I don't think there were any restrictions back then.
As a useless heterosexual white male, I subsequently had a marvellous 50 year flying career. I wouldn't fancy my chances these days unless I had an operation.
As a useless heterosexual white male, I subsequently had a marvellous 50 year flying career. I wouldn't fancy my chances these days unless I had an operation.
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We had some Sea Vixens at RAE Farnborough in about 1976; they were being 'modded' in order to become drones to operate out of Llanbedr. The FR test pilot would fly in from Tarrant Rushton to test fly them but on one occasion, he was a bit too enthusiastic when getting on board and leapt into the cockpit striking his forehead on the edge of the canopy as he did so and he had to be trucked off to hospital for treatment.
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Do we want to celebrate, champion and promote diversity at all costs? This is actually counterproductive to social integration.
By highlighting differences aren’t we actually exacerbating the problem? Surely we need to arrive at a point where ethnicity, colour, religion, gender etc is irrelevant, and only ‘Performance’ is the consideration. If certain groups are underrepresented then that’s society’s problem to fix and should not be artificially engineered. There is no place for quotas in a ‘safety critical’ role such as the military.
If positive discrimination is allowed then this will cause division, and undermine the all important morale of the services. I’m all for ‘positive encouragement’ for those underrepresented but restricting ‘white males’ is not the answer.
By highlighting differences aren’t we actually exacerbating the problem? Surely we need to arrive at a point where ethnicity, colour, religion, gender etc is irrelevant, and only ‘Performance’ is the consideration. If certain groups are underrepresented then that’s society’s problem to fix and should not be artificially engineered. There is no place for quotas in a ‘safety critical’ role such as the military.
If positive discrimination is allowed then this will cause division, and undermine the all important morale of the services. I’m all for ‘positive encouragement’ for those underrepresented but restricting ‘white males’ is not the answer.
If the only applicants you receive are white males then that’s all you can recruit.
The obvious answer is to go looking for and encouraging applicants who don’t happen to be white males and put them through the same selection process.
What you are saying is we shouldn’t do that.
So if we can’t do that, if we can’t look for and encourage diverse applicants, then what exactly can we do?
At the heart of all this is whether we want the best applicants, or only the best white male applicants. I think we want the former. Which part of that do you dispute?
Last edited by Bbtengineer; 14th Jun 2023 at 00:54.
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Your last statement may be true. But only if those non-white males and females have been denied the opportunity because of their race or gender.
I don’t want to be a midwife. Do you think that hospitals should be forced to hire 50% male midwives? After all, that would be inclusive and equal.
Before becoming a pilot I was a qualified primary school teacher of 7-11 year olds. I was overwhelmingly surrounded by females in every school I taught in. Should schools be forced to hire 50% male teachers?
Can you see my point or do you wish to keep rattling off the same old arguments that got us to where we are today?
If you want to see racism come to the region of the world in which I currently work. Trust me when I say it isn’t the white people dishing it out here.
Does racism exist in Britain? Almost certainly in some corners. Do I think our armed forces are racist in their recruiting practices by dint of the fact there aren’t higher numbers of people of non-white origin? I think you already know the answer but you think it makes you big and clever to trot out tired old stories from 60 years ago.
BV
I don’t want to be a midwife. Do you think that hospitals should be forced to hire 50% male midwives? After all, that would be inclusive and equal.
Before becoming a pilot I was a qualified primary school teacher of 7-11 year olds. I was overwhelmingly surrounded by females in every school I taught in. Should schools be forced to hire 50% male teachers?
Can you see my point or do you wish to keep rattling off the same old arguments that got us to where we are today?
If you want to see racism come to the region of the world in which I currently work. Trust me when I say it isn’t the white people dishing it out here.
Does racism exist in Britain? Almost certainly in some corners. Do I think our armed forces are racist in their recruiting practices by dint of the fact there aren’t higher numbers of people of non-white origin? I think you already know the answer but you think it makes you big and clever to trot out tired old stories from 60 years ago.
BV
Meanwhile in 2023 no white male in the USA is possibly aggrieved. That is why to me they are sickening dinosaurs. If they think so they have likely been propagandized by mainstream media and the demagogue politicians, or worse. Actual died in the wool racists. Similarly it is impossible for a non-white person in the US to be a racist. They may be a hateful bigot but there is no way they can enjoy the entitlement of privilege in a white rascist power structure.
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Koan
I was pretty clear that I was taking about UK experiences and the specific thrust of this thread.
I have visited the US extensively (32 different states) and I would say it is clear that your country has an enormous problem with racism and inequality of opportunity. The UK is a very different kettle of fish and the two should not be compared on equal terms.
As I previously said, there will still be pockets in the UK where racists exist and it is not perfect but my world travels have shown me that there are very few, if any, countries as well integrated as the UK. In the microcosm of RAF recruiting I’d say it’s clear that being of non-white, male origin is no barrier to successful selection.
BV
I have visited the US extensively (32 different states) and I would say it is clear that your country has an enormous problem with racism and inequality of opportunity. The UK is a very different kettle of fish and the two should not be compared on equal terms.
As I previously said, there will still be pockets in the UK where racists exist and it is not perfect but my world travels have shown me that there are very few, if any, countries as well integrated as the UK. In the microcosm of RAF recruiting I’d say it’s clear that being of non-white, male origin is no barrier to successful selection.
BV
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It must be a legacy of Wiggo that the last Air & Space Power reveiw to be published in his tenure (Vol 25, Number 1) contains articles exclusively by female writers .....
I was pretty clear that I was taking about UK experiences and the specific thrust of this thread.
I have visited the US extensively (32 different states) and I would say it is clear that your country has an enormous problem with racism and inequality of opportunity. The UK is a very different kettle of fish and the two should not be compared on equal terms.
As I previously said, there will still be pockets in the UK where racists exist and it is not perfect but my world travels have shown me that there are very few, if any, countries as well integrated as the UK. In the microcosm of RAF recruiting I’d say it’s clear that being of non-white, male origin is no barrier to successful selection.
BV
I have visited the US extensively (32 different states) and I would say it is clear that your country has an enormous problem with racism and inequality of opportunity. The UK is a very different kettle of fish and the two should not be compared on equal terms.
As I previously said, there will still be pockets in the UK where racists exist and it is not perfect but my world travels have shown me that there are very few, if any, countries as well integrated as the UK. In the microcosm of RAF recruiting I’d say it’s clear that being of non-white, male origin is no barrier to successful selection.
BV
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While we talk about recent missteps in recruitment, it's notable to recognise that the once incredibly busy stickied thread for wannabes hasn't been posted in for nearly 2 years.
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Yes, it looks like he was defiant until the end - there must be one of those Hitler’s last moments in the bunker video memes in this? The rumour is that the investigation into his, and his cronies, woke activities are on short final to land this month. I just hope it’s a damning as the report that made Bojo resign.
That one is from *2019* - four years ago, as long as the First World War. The culture war yelling is a distraction from the training disaster, much as it is from all other British policy disasters.
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