Ukraine War Thread Part 2
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I can see that perspective but often as in Russia and China in Africa it appears that “World Power” is asset stripping of the countries, admittedly China appears to be building roads etc to the betterment of the Country’s.
Even the British Commonwealth did the same, although in Countries like India they did put in place the road and rail plus government infrastructure still in use today.
i still think Ukraine is a total different kettle of fish, because if we all do not support them now then we will be back to the Cold War situation, and if you think the cost is bad now, wait until 5 years down the line when Russia has expanded its weapon production and you are looking down the silos of hypersonic nuclear missiles.
i said early on in 2022 it was the time to tell Putin to withdraw or put in peacekeepers… perhaps if Joe had followed what Trump had said, withdraw or the Kremlin will glow in the dark, the bluff may have worked.
Even the British Commonwealth did the same, although in Countries like India they did put in place the road and rail plus government infrastructure still in use today.
i still think Ukraine is a total different kettle of fish, because if we all do not support them now then we will be back to the Cold War situation, and if you think the cost is bad now, wait until 5 years down the line when Russia has expanded its weapon production and you are looking down the silos of hypersonic nuclear missiles.
i said early on in 2022 it was the time to tell Putin to withdraw or put in peacekeepers… perhaps if Joe had followed what Trump had said, withdraw or the Kremlin will glow in the dark, the bluff may have worked.
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well thanks goodness he didn't
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A fact that some politicians apparently rely on while they vie for entry into the Guiness Book of Records for greatest falsehoods told per hour. Second prise to the most gullible public since lemmings were emancipated and apparently given a vote.
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Normally I would feel sorry when I see scenes like this, but you know what I don’t, if she wants to cry she needs to do it over the massacred Ukrainian families and those flooded when they blew the dam.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...98268649103484
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...98268649103484
Context is everything.
Kherson was due to the explicit actions of Moscow, and the Russian people enjoyed the spectacle of suffering of Ukrainians. The dam collapse at Orsk is a consequence of the disinterest Moscow has to its own people exacerbated by the weather gods doing their divine comedy bit. Loki is at least happy. When Russia stops supporting a criminal and murderous, child trafficking regime, and replace their divots, then perhaps sympathy may for again, not just floodwaters.
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I am a little skeptical of the US saying that Europe isn't spending enough on its military.
The UK lost hundreds of good men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan for what was an American expedition of folly, with no clear goals or plan.
It cost us billions of pounds and then ended in a matter of weeks when the US said "**** this were going home."
The US stirring up the hornets nest in the Middle East has meant that we have spent much more on the problem that manifested itself from the fallout since 2001 - Islamic Fundamentalism in the UK and Europe. The US apart from 911 has had very little in comparison to Europe to deal with.
I don't know if M15 and M16 and other counter terrorism groups budgets come from the Military but I suspect not.
The cost of this has had to be found from somewhere, with the reduction of risk from the US and China not being as much of a risk to Europe - (YET), has meant that governments have had to redistribute money from the military to home security and dealing with migrants and stupid German policies.
You could say that the US has an obligation to Europe, the US right royally fecked up the Middle East and we came to your aid, now its time for you to do the same with Ukraine.
(If Germany, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia etc aren't going to play ball, then the UK, France, Scandis and Baltic states certainly will).
The UK lost hundreds of good men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan for what was an American expedition of folly, with no clear goals or plan.
It cost us billions of pounds and then ended in a matter of weeks when the US said "**** this were going home."
The US stirring up the hornets nest in the Middle East has meant that we have spent much more on the problem that manifested itself from the fallout since 2001 - Islamic Fundamentalism in the UK and Europe. The US apart from 911 has had very little in comparison to Europe to deal with.
I don't know if M15 and M16 and other counter terrorism groups budgets come from the Military but I suspect not.
The cost of this has had to be found from somewhere, with the reduction of risk from the US and China not being as much of a risk to Europe - (YET), has meant that governments have had to redistribute money from the military to home security and dealing with migrants and stupid German policies.
You could say that the US has an obligation to Europe, the US right royally fecked up the Middle East and we came to your aid, now its time for you to do the same with Ukraine.
(If Germany, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia etc aren't going to play ball, then the UK, France, Scandis and Baltic states certainly will).
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I am a little skeptical of the US saying that Europe isn't spending enough on its military.
The UK lost hundreds of good men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan for what was an American expedition of folly, with no clear goals or plan.
It cost us billions of pounds and then ended in a matter of weeks when the US said "**** this were going home."
The UK lost hundreds of good men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan for what was an American expedition of folly, with no clear goals or plan.
It cost us billions of pounds and then ended in a matter of weeks when the US said "**** this were going home."
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Back on topic
Remember the petrol station destroyed with all of the military vehicles under it... Well now the military equipment has vanished, the russian bloggers are now saying all the humanitarian goods stored there were destroyed.
Remember the petrol station destroyed with all of the military vehicles under it... Well now the military equipment has vanished, the russian bloggers are now saying all the humanitarian goods stored there were destroyed.
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What surprises me is when they say they have taken xyz village and when you see what that entails, the only thing is appears to have left is a name, here is Robotyne. You wonder what tactical advantage they have holding it.
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Ukraine's new heavy drones work
Interestingly the Ukrainians have adapted anti tank mines to drop from the drones with a fuse length designed to detonate them in an airburst above the target.
Interestingly the Ukrainians have adapted anti tank mines to drop from the drones with a fuse length designed to detonate them in an airburst above the target.
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Ukrainian school kids in the occupied territories, spot the happy kid..
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They are still racking the kills of both men and materials.
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It's not directly related to NATO, but the lack of military investment by some members of NATO has contributed to the outsized military spending by the US which has directly contributed to the current US debt of over $35 Trillion - which is growing at the rate of another Trillion every ~100 days. Heck, the interest on that debt is over a trillion dollars a year. As a wise man said, something that can't go on forever - won't. We can no longer afford to spend the money to be the world's police.
Besides, had the rest of NATO spent on defense at a similar rate that the US has over the last 50 years - they'd have far more equipment available that they could provide to Ukraine (along with the needed industrial base to make more).
Yes, I want to see the US provide military support to Ukraine, and think it's a good long-term investment to avoid having to spend far more countering Russian expansionism in the future. But I also acknowledge that we can't keep spending these huge amounts of money taking care of the rest of the world.
BTW, this T-shirt perfectly reflects how I feel about our upcoming election:
(yes, I bought one and wear it proudly).
Besides, had the rest of NATO spent on defense at a similar rate that the US has over the last 50 years - they'd have far more equipment available that they could provide to Ukraine (along with the needed industrial base to make more).
Yes, I want to see the US provide military support to Ukraine, and think it's a good long-term investment to avoid having to spend far more countering Russian expansionism in the future. But I also acknowledge that we can't keep spending these huge amounts of money taking care of the rest of the world.
BTW, this T-shirt perfectly reflects how I feel about our upcoming election:
(yes, I bought one and wear it proudly).
whilst I agree with your comment that a good few NATO members have been coasting, I don't accept your point that America has been spending to cover the gap. The USA has always had a very high defence spend, even when other countries referred to were spending lots more than 2% in the Cold-War era. As far as current aid to Ukraine, , you will have surely seen that chart posted recently listing aid as % of GDP. From memory the USA supplied 0.3%, GB was 0.52% and Germany was 0.55%. The most generous was - I believe - estonia with 3+% and all the Baltic and Scandinavian countries were up there at 1%+.and France was disgraceful at 0.07%
I have written this before - and you may even have commented on it - but giving time-expired or "banned" munitions to Ukriane can be a huge monetary saving to the US: destroying 155 mm cluster-shells costs $ 12 K ( iirc ) and I guess ATACMS must be a lot more. Whatever the logistical cost of giving them to Ukraine, it must be a lot less. Storing and maintainng all those Bradleys must produce a big bill too, and these are obviously only two items of a very long list. Moreover it is immensely stupid that - for standard accounting reasons - the transfer of an out-of-time ATACMS missile to Ukraine is costed at $ 250 000 when the US won't use it, will have to pay big money to destroy it, and that $ 250 000 will be deducted from whatever budget exists for Ukraine aid..
As you say - and really every thinking-individual ought to recognise - helping/arming Ukraine is a stunningly good use of money/weapons as it has already knocked back the Russian military by 5+years, and if we can provide the means to defeat the Orcs, then possibly destroy the ability of the Russians to ever attempt this again( either economically or by political change.
To sum up: yes the USA does spend huge sums, but it chooses to do that for its own purposes imo, which does to some extent explain the huge stocks you have that can be sold/given to Ukriaine. These stocks are proving immensely useful now, but I do find myself doubting that this contingency was in the long-term plan.
Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 15th Apr 2024 at 11:33.
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Remember.... as relevant today as it was then.. a remarkable speech.
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It looks like some Russian backwater now has a self flushing outhouse.... shame if you live downstream.
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BEWARE dead body shown
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