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RAF Chinook pilot jailed for sexual assault

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RAF Chinook pilot jailed for sexual assault

Old 31st Mar 2023, 07:06
  #101 (permalink)  
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Reference dismissal and pensions - page 22-25 apply


https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...v5-jan18-1.pdf

In particular:

3.3.10 As a general rule, pension entitlements once earned may not be forfeited and the court has no power to sanction forfeiture. However, all Pension Schemes do provide for exceptional circumstances where the Secretary of State may order forfeiture. Such an order may be made where, for example, the Service person is convicted of treason, Official Secrets Acts offences where the sentence is at least 10 years’ imprisonment, and other offences which the Secretary of State considers to have been injurious to the defence, security or other interests of the State (e.g. assisting the enemy, mutiny, desertion in war and grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions). Similarly, surviving spouses’ benefits may be abated where they wilfully aided and abetted the commission of the offence. The schemes allow forfeiture if the member has a monetary obligation to the Crown which arises out of criminal, negligent or fraudulent act or omission and arises out of or in connection with service in the Armed Forces. Recovery is possible once the pension begins payment…..
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 07:09
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Reference dismissal and pensions - page 22 applies.


https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...v5-jan18-1.pdf
I know what it says - that's why I posted it!

As a general rule, pension entitlements once earned may not be forfeited and the court has no power to sanction forfeiture. However, all Pension Schemes do provide for exceptional circumstances where the Secretary of State may order forfeiture. Such an order may be made where, for example, the Service person is convicted of treason, Official Secrets Acts offences where the sentence is at least 10 years’ imprisonment, and other offences which the Secretary of State considers to have been injurious to the defence, security or other interests of the State (e.g. assisting the enemy, mutiny, desertion in war and grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions).
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 08:53
  #103 (permalink)  

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What would be justice would be an order for the pension to be paid directly to his wife's bank account. Why should she and the children suffer? Won't happen I know.
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 09:58
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Originally Posted by Herod
What would be justice would be an order for the pension to be paid directly to his wife's bank account. Why should she and the children suffer? Won't happen I know.
Sadly, I suspect the wife and children will suffer anyway (beyond the personal impact of his offence), whether or not they have/had a joint bank account. The bigger issue here is the individual has not served through to age 40 and will not have completed 20 years of service, so any pension entitlements are deferred to State Pension Age, there will be no lump sum and the only cash will be the resettlement grant. SPA for this person will be at least 30 years from now, so his only income from the public purse before then is likely to be restricted to unemployment benefit or job seekers allowance.
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 18:42
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Reference dismissal and pensions - page 22-25 apply


https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...v5-jan18-1.pdf

In particular:

3.3.10 As a general rule, pension entitlements once earned may not be forfeited and the court has no power to sanction forfeiture. However, all Pension Schemes do provide for exceptional circumstances where the Secretary of State may order forfeiture. Such an order may be made where, for example, the Service person is convicted of treason, Official Secrets Acts offences where the sentence is at least 10 years’ imprisonment, and other offences which the Secretary of State considers to have been injurious to the defence, security or other interests of the State (e.g. assisting the enemy, mutiny, desertion in war and grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions). Similarly, surviving spouses’ benefits may be abated where they wilfully aided and abetted the commission of the offence. The schemes allow forfeiture if the member has a monetary obligation to the Crown which arises out of criminal, negligent or fraudulent act or omission and arises out of or in connection with service in the Armed Forces. Recovery is possible once the pension begins payment…..
I don't know if the police are the same as the armed forces* - although one might think they would be similar - but it is normal where police officers are likely to be convicted of a crime and go to prison, they will resign before conviction. I believe the reason for this is that the conviction somehow allows the Police Authority to reclaim the pension "contributions " they have made if the convicted person is still employed at this point, which would obviously have a major effect on the pension. How this works in practice, I don't know, because - unlike money-purchase schemes - they are not contributing 7% or 10% per month to your pension.

* EDIT: One major difference occurs to me is that a police officer can resign at any time, whereas, I believe, a serviceman would need permission to do so outside contracted dates of service.

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 31st Mar 2023 at 19:04.
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 21:47
  #106 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Fortissimo
Sadly, I suspect the wife and children will suffer anyway (beyond the personal impact of his offence), whether or not they have/had a joint bank account. The bigger issue here is the individual has not served through to age 40 and will not have completed 20 years of service, so any pension entitlements are deferred to State Pension Age, there will be no lump sum and the only cash will be the resettlement grant. SPA for this person will be at least 30 years from now, so his only income from the public purse before then is likely to be restricted to unemployment benefit or job seekers allowance.
When did that rule come into force? It certainly wasn’t the case when I left at my 16/38 point.
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Old 31st Mar 2023, 22:03
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
When did that rule come into force? It certainly wasn’t the case when I left at my 16/38 point.
That's because you had a 16/38 initial pension point. Anyone who joined between April 2005 and April 2015 only has a 18/40 initial pension point: one of the changes brought about by AFPS05. If you leave before your initial pension point, you don't get an initial pension...

Last edited by Easy Street; 1st Apr 2023 at 00:28.
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Old 1st Apr 2023, 16:19
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
I don't know if the police are the same as the armed forces* - although one might think they would be similar - but it is normal where police officers are likely to be convicted of a crime and go to prison, they will resign before conviction. I believe the reason for this is that the conviction somehow allows the Police Authority to reclaim the pension "contributions " they have made if the convicted person is still employed at this point, which would obviously have a major effect on the pension. How this works in practice, I don't know, because - unlike money-purchase schemes - they are not contributing 7% or 10% per month to your pension.

* EDIT: One major difference occurs to me is that a police officer can resign at any time, whereas, I believe, a serviceman would need permission to do so outside contracted dates of service.
My understanding is the Police have their pension contributions returned to them to invest in another pension on the open market, reason being the Police pension is more generous by reason of being in the Police. The system is set up such that is their only option, they can’t use as a lump sum etc unless they would be able to do so in the normal manner, over 55, up to 25%.
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Old 1st Apr 2023, 16:46
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Originally Posted by Sloppy Link
My understanding is the Police have their pension contributions returned to them to invest in another pension on the open market, reason being the Police pension is more generous by reason of being in the Police. The system is set up such that is their only option, they can’t use as a lump sum etc unless they would be able to do so in the normal manner, over 55, up to 25%.
No. The individual's contribution remain "invested" in the police pension, but the force can apply for its contributions to be forfeited under specific circumstances.

1.10. Forfeiture will not be appropriate in every case where a pension scheme member has committed a criminal offence, but should be considered where there is, or might be, public concern about the pension scheme member’s abuse of their position of trust. In order to be eligible for a forfeiture certificate, the offence(s) must have been committed in connection with their service as a member of a police force.

1.15. However, the Courts have determined that an individual’s pension may be forfeited by no more than 65% i.e. only contributions that have been made by the police force. The remainder reflects a member’s own contributions which cannot be forfeited.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...e_guidance.pdf
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Old 1st Apr 2023, 18:51
  #110 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Easy Street
That's because you had a 16/38 initial pension point. Anyone who joined between April 2005 and April 2015 only has a 18/40 initial pension point: one of the changes brought about by AFPS05. If you leave before your initial pension point, you don't get an initial pension...

Thank you for enlightening me. I didn’t know that the option point had been delayed by two years. Good to know that I served in the good old days…
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Old 1st Apr 2023, 18:58
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Ditto!
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Old 2nd Apr 2023, 07:14
  #112 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by viz
You didn't. PAS 05 pension is considerably better than the old Spec Aircrew pension which didn't include flying pay. I'm much better off than you.

You're welcome
But had I not left at the age of 38 I would have lost my chance to emigrate and serve in a job flying far more modern aircraft, where I was able to put the equivalent of my entire RAF monthly salary in the bank and pay off my mortgage fifteen years early. You’re welcome, too.
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 13:59
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Originally Posted by HeliLad22
I was on the same RAF squadron as this guy. He was an arrogant, cocky, self obsessed individual, he thought the world revolved around him.
Pilot, then…😁
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 16:33
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Originally Posted by snapper41
Pilot, then…😁
More like a Polar explorer ........ it happens at both poles.

Any where else one gets a component of same.

Navs will understand.
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 19:46
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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No shame

On a thread about a sexual assault you guys are bragging about how you’ve paid your mortgages off and what a great life you’ve had. Classy.

BV
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 23:25
  #116 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
On a thread about a sexual assault you guys are bragging about how you’ve paid your mortgages off and what a great life you’ve had. Classy.

BV
I gave up my RAF career after things weren’t going at all well and I almost lost my family because of it. It turned out to have been a good financial decision at the time although it has cost me quite dearly in the long term regarding a pension. Sorry to hear it upsets others. If it’s such a big issue report my post and let the moderator delete it if necessary.
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 12:35
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
No. The individual's contribution remain "invested" in the police pension, but the force can apply for its contributions to be forfeited under specific circumstances.

1.10. Forfeiture will not be appropriate in every case where a pension scheme member has committed a criminal offence, but should be considered where there is, or might be, public concern about the pension scheme member’s abuse of their position of trust. In order to be eligible for a forfeiture certificate, the offence(s) must have been committed in connection with their service as a member of a police force.

1.15. However, the Courts have determined that an individual’s pension may be forfeited by no more than 65% i.e. only contributions that have been made by the police force. The remainder reflects a member’s own contributions which cannot be forfeited.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...e_guidance.pdf
Thanks, I knew there was some kind of sanction.
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