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RAF Chinook pilot jailed for sexual assault

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RAF Chinook pilot jailed for sexual assault

Old 25th Mar 2023, 08:47
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Originally Posted by Timelord
Without doubt women were patronised more in those days, but they were assaulted less.

Nope just didn't report it. Even back in the 80's reporting sexual assault as a women in the forces was death to your career, not much different now
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 09:27
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Originally Posted by rattman
Nope just didn't report it. Even back in the 80's reporting sexual assault as a women in the forces was death to your career, not much different now
I knew that would be the response but I am really not so sure. The behaviour reported on RN submarines, in the met and in this case is like nothing I ever heard of in “my day” and I had a pretty good cross section of friends, male and female, of all ranks.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 09:37
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Originally Posted by Timelord
I knew that would be the response but I am really not so sure. The behaviour reported on RN submarines, in the met and in this case is like nothing I ever heard of in “my day” and I had a pretty good cross section of friends, male and female, of all ranks.
You should hear the stories of those “older” ladies, friends of mine, who joined up with me in the 80s and all of us currently serving. Every single one of them were sexually assaulted, and misogyny and sexism was rife. None of them reported it because that was the culture then. Glad to say that this is definitely not the case now. Any behaviour like that, previously “accepted” is totally unacceptable now. Try treating “frail” ladies like that now and watch your career vanish.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 09:43
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Ok, if you say so. I must have spent 30 years in an ivory tower. We can agree however, that the fact that it is not tolerated in the military now is a good thing. Now for the Met!
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 10:41
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Might this be [I make so daring] a part conssequence of the equality sought so earnestly? I hope not, but many men no longer see women as frail ladies, to be protected, given precedence through doors, given seats on transport, and walked on the inside, away from the road edge?

Were the old blokes here the last generation to have these simple courtesies drummed into them?

I have known women bridling at being deferred to, demanding equality. Perhap the Law of Unintended Consequences is working.

NB. This is not the argument "she was all tarted uo, short skirts, and flashing her knockers, so she was asking for it"
Much more subtle than that.


Once when a group of rowdy teenagers approached I would cross the road unless there was a girl with them.
I felt that a female would be a moderating influence on the boys. Now I think girls have become boys and boys have become girls and I cross the road. I'm a bit old fashioned and am fiercely protective of female relatives.
I believe that this Sqn Ldr should be a guest at Colchester as well. They know a lot about custodial hospitality.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 10:52
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Might this be [I make so daring] a part conssequence of the equality sought so earnestly? I hope not, but many men no longer see women as frail ladies, to be protected, given precedence through doors, given seats on transport, and walked on the inside, away from the road edge?

Were the old blokes here the last generation to have these simple courtesies drummed into them?

I have known women bridling at being deferred to, demanding equality. Perhap the Law of Unintended Consequences is working.

NB. This is not the argument "she was all tarted uo, short skirts, and flashing her knockers, so she was asking for it"
Much more subtle than that.

what are you implying here? This has nothing to do with women wanted equality. It’s about a f*cked up, entitled, little man. There’s no justification.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:01
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Go easy on LB

For what it’s worth I can see where LB was coming from. We should be allowed to question why a seemingly intelligent individual has committed such a heinous act and try to work out if it is indicative of a wider societal problem. I don’t think we need to brand LB a misogynist dinosaur just for asking a question.

For the record I think the the ex-Officer is an absolute disgrace and the sentence is far too lenient. He seemed to be suffering from some sort of God complex and his statements are abhorrent. He has brought shame on the entire RAF and the men especially. I shudder to think I could have been surrounded by such monsters when I was serving.

BV
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:04
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Originally Posted by bugged on the right
Once when a group of rowdy teenagers approached I would cross the road unless there was a girl with them.
I felt that a female would be a moderating influence on the boys. Now I think girls have become boys and boys have become girls and I cross the road. I'm a bit old fashioned and am fiercely protective of female relatives.
I believe that this Sqn Ldr should be a guest at Colchester as well. They know a lot about custodial hospitality.
Only for a couple of days as he's processed and discharged, then as a rule 42 prisoner in an HMP, he won't know what's hit him both mentally and maybe physically.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:15
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Originally Posted by Toadstool
You should hear the stories of those “older” ladies, friends of mine, who joined up with me in the 80s and all of us currently serving. Every single one of them were sexually assaulted, and misogyny and sexism was rife. None of them reported it because that was the culture then. Glad to say that this is definitely not the case now. Any behaviour like that, previously “accepted” is totally unacceptable now. Try treating “frail” ladies like that now and watch your career vanish.
Yeah cant speak for the UK military but in australia know several who sexually assualted and 1 was raped. 1 specifically she was an nursing officer was sexually assulted by an NCO and private. Soon as she reported it, she was transferred to posting across the country, the soldiers in question were put on a plane to afghanistan away from civilian law enforncements. Bad part for her she was doing a medical degree and the new posting didn't have a uni for her to study at. She left the military a got a ton of compensation (took the military to court under whistleblower legislation), of the a 2 guys the SGT got busted to a corporal, the private was discharged for drug use before any charges were laid

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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:26
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
For what it’s worth I can see where LB was coming from. We should be allowed to question why a seemingly intelligent individual has committed such a heinous act and try to work out if it is indicative of a wider societal problem. I don’t think we need to brand LB a misogynist dinosaur just for asking a question.
Yes there is but random people on internet claiming that its the womens fault because she wants equality is pretty repugnent. If you want to find out theres lots of acutal reports going to physcology of rapists and wife beaters. They have a lot of the same characteristic, these are made by actual proffessionals. Intelligence has nothing to do with it in the end, intelligence males them harder to catch
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:40
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Nothing else that LB has posted has ever pointed to such a thing.

CG
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:50
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Originally Posted by charliegolf
Nothing else that LB has posted has ever pointed to such a thing. CG
Quite right.
He comes across as a thoroughly decent human being who doesn't litter his intelligent posts with grammatical and spelling errors.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 12:02
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Unfortunately pprune is like other social media sites. Jaw dropping personal insults with no understanding of nuance or differing perspective. I also have only read reasonable and well constructed posts from LB. For the avoidance of doubt I have no support for the individual who has committed a horrible crime and has received the justice he deserved.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 13:05
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Originally Posted by HeliLad22
I was on the same RAF squadron as this guy. He was an arrogant, cocky, self obsessed individual, he thought the world revolved around him.

When this came to light it did not surprise me at all based on what I know of him.

Agree with the comments above that his sentence is not long enough, however, in reality his personal sentence will be longer. Loss of job, loss of military pension, loss of wife, loss of credibility, his name forever searchable on Google - what a fool.
It is an indicator of the culture prevalent in the military, that these people walk among us largely unchallenged. Continuing to be promoted and put in posts that one would think are reserved for top tier individuals.

Maybe the saying "all the good ones get out as corporals and captains" is as relevant as it was when I first heard it nearly 20 years ago.

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Old 25th Mar 2023, 13:27
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What got me in it all was

Bayliss had his sentence reduced from the two year starting point to 18 months, partly due to his distinguished career, which included active service in Afghanistan, Iraq and West Africa.
What about her distinguished service, after all the RAF is not just one person, it takes a team to operate and her service should have balanced out his service and his sentence should not have been reduced because of it. Though it was a pitiful sentence in my eyes to start with.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 13:31
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If you think that 'back in my day'women were not sexually assaulted then you are very very wrong. The Atherton report is a daming indictment of over 30yrs of military culture to women and is an extremely uncomfortable read.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 13:41
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I know it’s the mail, but more on it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-herself.html
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Timelord
Without doubt women were patronised more in those days, but they were assaulted less.

I know many RAF women who were assaulted, it just wasn’t reported in the main. Remember the bar “game” involving drunk bloke biting a serving woman’s backside and hanging on as long as they could? I saw one female aircrew officer walk up to the crowd laughing after another assault of a work colleague and quietly said “ and if this happened to your mother, sister, partner, would it be so funny then?”.
she then reported the assault to the RAF police, it never happened again in that mess.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 14:17
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I know it’s the mail, but more on it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-herself.html
A man like me with a very strong-willed wife, three graduate daughters lall retired], five graduate granddaughters, one great-grand daughter and a mongrel bitch ..................

......................has no chance of retaining chauvinist thoughts.
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 16:09
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Originally Posted by WillNorris81
I know many RAF women who were assaulted, it just wasn’t reported in the main. Remember the bar “game” involving drunk bloke biting a serving woman’s backside and hanging on as long as they could? I saw one female aircrew officer walk up to the crowd laughing after another assault of a work colleague and quietly said “ and if this happened to your mother, sister, partner, would it be so funny then?”.
she then reported the assault to the RAF police, it never happened again in that mess.
No, I don’t remember. What era was this? Because I can honestly say that in my service, 1972-2000, mostly fast jet, mostly front line, I never witnessed or heard of any such moronic behaviour.

I would add that on my OCTU a fellow cadet was put on review because he had sworn in the hearing of a female cadet. Very different times!

Last edited by Timelord; 25th Mar 2023 at 16:39.
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