Helicopters mothballed without seeing any service.
Re ‘Project Matcha Gotcha’
UK procurement officials are facing awkward questions over acquisition policy after it emerged that a fleet of Airbus Helicopters H135s purchased as replacements for the British Army’s elderly Gazelles has been mothballed before ever seeing active use.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) in October 2021 awarded Airbus Helicopters a contract for the “procurement of aircraft”, later confirmed to be for five H135 light-twins, all of which were delivered in 2022.
Source: AirTeamImages
H135s were due to replace elderly Gazelle fleet
Acquired under a requirement known as ‘Project Matcha’, the helicopters were due to replace the Gazelles being flown in Northern Ireland.
However, the H135s have never seen operational service and are instead being placed into long-term storage, two sources with knowledge of the matter have confirmed to FlightGlobal.
This is due to the improved security situation in Northern Ireland which has removed the requirement for helicopter flights, the sources indicate.
Defence officials are now considering a range of options for the H135s, which could include a sale or lease back to Airbus Helicopters or a transfer to the National Police Air Service, which already operates H135s.
The cost of the H135s has not been disclosed, nor if they have had any mission equipment installed.
The MoD declines to comment.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) in October 2021 awarded Airbus Helicopters a contract for the “procurement of aircraft”, later confirmed to be for five H135 light-twins, all of which were delivered in 2022.
Source: AirTeamImages
H135s were due to replace elderly Gazelle fleet
Acquired under a requirement known as ‘Project Matcha’, the helicopters were due to replace the Gazelles being flown in Northern Ireland.
However, the H135s have never seen operational service and are instead being placed into long-term storage, two sources with knowledge of the matter have confirmed to FlightGlobal.
This is due to the improved security situation in Northern Ireland which has removed the requirement for helicopter flights, the sources indicate.
Defence officials are now considering a range of options for the H135s, which could include a sale or lease back to Airbus Helicopters or a transfer to the National Police Air Service, which already operates H135s.
The cost of the H135s has not been disclosed, nor if they have had any mission equipment installed.
The MoD declines to comment.
Originally Posted by chevvron
Might as well give 'em to Ukraine; they've got everything else.
Alternatively maybe 84 Sqdn could use them.
Alternatively maybe 84 Sqdn could use them.
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·
Today RAF Benson waved goodbye to two of the Station’s Pumas as they began their journey to Akrotiri in Cyprus to join 84 Squadron. RAF Benson will soon have 3 Pumas in Cyprus conducting various air operations in the Mediterranean.
We will be reporting on their progress over the next few days as they complete the 2,000+ mile journey across Europe.
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372You and 371 others
Avoid imitations
My first operational type, same squadron, too. I’ve undoubtedly flown some of those actual airframes.
Unfortunately, apart from the photos, the above post showed up as many lines of gobbledygook.
Unfortunately, apart from the photos, the above post showed up as many lines of gobbledygook.
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Unfortunately, apart from the photos, the above post showed up as many lines of gobbledygook.
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
My first operational type, same squadron, too. I’ve undoubtedly flown some of those actual airframes.
The following users liked this post:
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
My first operational type, same squadron, too. I’ve undoubtedly flown some of those actual airframes.
Unfortunately, apart from the photos, the above post showed up as many lines of gobbledygook.
Unfortunately, apart from the photos, the above post showed up as many lines of gobbledygook.
Yes, 412 contract has run it's course. The H135's that are mothballed are (I believe) ones that were 'sold' from MFTS at Shawbury to be replaced by more H145. This is because some complete morons (Ascent) thought they were suitable for rearcrew training, which they clearly are not. As a result, they also completely unsuitable for SAR Ops on 84 Sqn.
It has been well known for decades that SAR in Cyprus is surprisingly tricky, with glassy seas, horrendous storms and serious performance issues whilst live winching in the hills at altitude. I am very glad to see that the new Puma crews that are going to 84 are first going to 202 for a proper SAR course with overwater, wet winching and deck training as per the old SAR course, emergencies whilst live winching etc - the things that the ex-SAR crews on 84 all had, and which kept them alive. It takes a long time to learn and years to master. They will be doing the SAR role, so they need the skills to achieve the job and to stay alive.
Oh sorry, I forgot myself for a moment - of course they aren't. A quick winching famil and they are off. I appeal to the wives/partners of the 84 Sqn crews - when they splash a Puma in glassy conditions or at night, ask the Coroner what SAR, overwater, low reference training they received, because the military know it is a requirement for safe operation, but won't pay for it.
Puma to Cyprus - sure, I have no issue with that, but the Military are rapidly forgetting the skills required to operate safely over water, low references - it kills people. There is a unit at RAF Valley (202 Sqn) that still retains some true experts from the SAR days - for the love of God, use them properly and train properly, if not the consequences will be squarely on the heads of thiose that chose the easy option.
The MoD have a unit that can properly train all crews going to 84 to ensure they have a chance to survive the surprisingly dangerous environment they are going to, but they won't use it properly.
202 Sqn should train, test and approve every single aircrew member for Cyprus. Anything else is a dereliction of Duty by 22 Gp, JHC and the MAA.
It has been well known for decades that SAR in Cyprus is surprisingly tricky, with glassy seas, horrendous storms and serious performance issues whilst live winching in the hills at altitude. I am very glad to see that the new Puma crews that are going to 84 are first going to 202 for a proper SAR course with overwater, wet winching and deck training as per the old SAR course, emergencies whilst live winching etc - the things that the ex-SAR crews on 84 all had, and which kept them alive. It takes a long time to learn and years to master. They will be doing the SAR role, so they need the skills to achieve the job and to stay alive.
Oh sorry, I forgot myself for a moment - of course they aren't. A quick winching famil and they are off. I appeal to the wives/partners of the 84 Sqn crews - when they splash a Puma in glassy conditions or at night, ask the Coroner what SAR, overwater, low reference training they received, because the military know it is a requirement for safe operation, but won't pay for it.
Puma to Cyprus - sure, I have no issue with that, but the Military are rapidly forgetting the skills required to operate safely over water, low references - it kills people. There is a unit at RAF Valley (202 Sqn) that still retains some true experts from the SAR days - for the love of God, use them properly and train properly, if not the consequences will be squarely on the heads of thiose that chose the easy option.
The MoD have a unit that can properly train all crews going to 84 to ensure they have a chance to survive the surprisingly dangerous environment they are going to, but they won't use it properly.
202 Sqn should train, test and approve every single aircrew member for Cyprus. Anything else is a dereliction of Duty by 22 Gp, JHC and the MAA.
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I had a short flight with 84 Sqdn when I was at Akrotiri for easter camp back in 1986; course they were flying Wessex in those days.(Yes I did see the knickers)
Can't help thinking it might have been easier to stick the Puma(s) in a C17 rather than fly them all the way to Cyprus; that last leg (overwater avoiding Turkish airspace) could be a bit dodgy.
I have a great affection for Pumas; I did a flight out of Farnborough in a Puma with Andy Warner (who later became CTP of Eurocopter) in the right hand seat (I was left hand seat) low level around Salisbury Plain in one below the treetops.
Can't help thinking it might have been easier to stick the Puma(s) in a C17 rather than fly them all the way to Cyprus; that last leg (overwater avoiding Turkish airspace) could be a bit dodgy.
I have a great affection for Pumas; I did a flight out of Farnborough in a Puma with Andy Warner (who later became CTP of Eurocopter) in the right hand seat (I was left hand seat) low level around Salisbury Plain in one below the treetops.
Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj
Yes, 412 contract has run it's course. The H135's that are mothballed are (I believe) ones that were 'sold' from MFTS at Shawbury to be replaced by more H145. This is because some complete morons (Ascent) thought they were suitable for rearcrew training, which they clearly are not. As a result, they also completely unsuitable for SAR Ops on 84 Sqn.
It has been well known for decades that SAR in Cyprus is surprisingly tricky, with glassy seas, horrendous storms and serious performance issues whilst live winching in the hills at altitude. I am very glad to see that the new Puma crews that are going to 84 are first going to 202 for a proper SAR course with overwater, wet winching and deck training as per the old SAR course, emergencies whilst live winching etc - the things that the ex-SAR crews on 84 all had, and which kept them alive. It takes a long time to learn and years to master. They will be doing the SAR role, so they need the skills to achieve the job and to stay alive.
Oh sorry, I forgot myself for a moment - of course they aren't. A quick winching famil and they are off. I appeal to the wives/partners of the 84 Sqn crews - when they splash a Puma in glassy conditions or at night, ask the Coroner what SAR, overwater, low reference training they received, because the military know it is a requirement for safe operation, but won't pay for it.
Puma to Cyprus - sure, I have no issue with that, but the Military are rapidly forgetting the skills required to operate safely over water, low references - it kills people. There is a unit at RAF Valley (202 Sqn) that still retains some true experts from the SAR days - for the love of God, use them properly and train properly, if not the consequences will be squarely on the heads of thiose that chose the easy option.
The MoD have a unit that can properly train all crews going to 84 to ensure they have a chance to survive the surprisingly dangerous environment they are going to, but they won't use it properly.
202 Sqn should train, test and approve every single aircrew member for Cyprus. Anything else is a dereliction of Duty by 22 Gp, JHC and the MAA.
It has been well known for decades that SAR in Cyprus is surprisingly tricky, with glassy seas, horrendous storms and serious performance issues whilst live winching in the hills at altitude. I am very glad to see that the new Puma crews that are going to 84 are first going to 202 for a proper SAR course with overwater, wet winching and deck training as per the old SAR course, emergencies whilst live winching etc - the things that the ex-SAR crews on 84 all had, and which kept them alive. It takes a long time to learn and years to master. They will be doing the SAR role, so they need the skills to achieve the job and to stay alive.
Oh sorry, I forgot myself for a moment - of course they aren't. A quick winching famil and they are off. I appeal to the wives/partners of the 84 Sqn crews - when they splash a Puma in glassy conditions or at night, ask the Coroner what SAR, overwater, low reference training they received, because the military know it is a requirement for safe operation, but won't pay for it.
Puma to Cyprus - sure, I have no issue with that, but the Military are rapidly forgetting the skills required to operate safely over water, low references - it kills people. There is a unit at RAF Valley (202 Sqn) that still retains some true experts from the SAR days - for the love of God, use them properly and train properly, if not the consequences will be squarely on the heads of thiose that chose the easy option.
The MoD have a unit that can properly train all crews going to 84 to ensure they have a chance to survive the surprisingly dangerous environment they are going to, but they won't use it properly.
202 Sqn should train, test and approve every single aircrew member for Cyprus. Anything else is a dereliction of Duty by 22 Gp, JHC and the MAA.
The extra helicopters bought by Ascent were for use by No. 1 FTS to support an increased throughput.
Originally Posted by pr00ne
Wrong. The H135 in storage are the new build bought direct from Airbus to replace the AAC Gazelles used by 5 Rgt at Aldergrove.
The extra helicopters bought by Ascent were for use by No. 1 FTS to support an increased throughput.
The extra helicopters bought by Ascent were for use by No. 1 FTS to support an increased throughput.
Thanks for the clarification - so the 1st sentence I wrote, in which I clearly said 'I believe' because I was not sure, is incorrect, hence why I said 'I believe' and not 'I know'. You have been very helpful.
However, your statement is misleading. The extra 145's were bought because Ascent selected the H135 for rearcrew training, despite people informing them at them that it was unfit for purpose. They then needed to buy additional H145's to train rearcrew as they finally were forced to admit, after many months of insisting the H135 was suitable, that it was not. The H145's were needed so that Ascent could actually train rearcrew.
The H145's were bought so Ascent could actually meet the contract they had signed and this demonstrated beyond doubt the utter incompetence of the Ascent model.
Last edited by Baldeep Inminj; 8th Feb 2023 at 10:56.
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I have nearly 4K hours on 135. It’s a fabulous aircraft, but has limits to its mission capabilities. You COULD fit a winch, but the single engine performance is not “all that”.
it excels as a police/AA platform and is reasonable as a corporate machine.
it excels as a police/AA platform and is reasonable as a corporate machine.
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