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China recruits former British military pilots

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China recruits former British military pilots

Old 18th Oct 2022, 08:36
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Wrathmonk

Those of us that leave or plan to leave are fully aware of ALL the opportunities and we make our choices according to our own personal values and requirements. I was aware of China but opted for somewhere else (that’s not to say I was guaranteed a job there by any means). I won’t judge anyone that did go that way though.

BV
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 08:37
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Originally Posted by Soab View Post
What's the penalty for treason? Hanging or firing squad?
What is treason? The UK government gave the Soviets the Rolls-Royce jet engine technology that they used to power the MiG-15. What's good for the goose...
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 08:45
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Those of us that leave or plan to leave are fully aware of ALL the opportunities and we make our choices according to our own personal values and requirements. I was aware of China but opted for somewhere else (that’s not to say I was guaranteed a job there by any means). I won’t judge anyone that did go that way though.

BV
Clearly misplaced humour by me….hey ho.

I wonder whose personal values and judgement were such that they informed the authorities of this potential for conflict of interests?

Strange, in the good old days the newspapers would have referred to these pilots as mercenaries.


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Old 18th Oct 2022, 08:56
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Wrathmonk

I understood the humour. I didn’t mean to come across all serious and sanctimonious. My bad!

BV
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 08:59
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personally, I think they are traitors - end of story
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:07
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I leapt out of bed when I heard this. How sad that this has come to pass.

I recall the late, great Geoffrey Wellum saying that the cadets he met on his visits to Cranwell were 'right out of the top drawer'.

On the one hand I am glad that he is not alive to hear that the inheritors of the legacy of the Few have sold their country out by flying for China.

On the other hand I would have loved to have heard what he had to say about ex military pilots working for the Chinese. I have just heard Nick Robinson on the BBC Today Programme ask if they are they traitors. The public will surely think them so.

I recall swearing my allegiance to Queen and Country on the Holy Bible at Cranwell. I never forgot it and would never go back on the deal.

We have just seen the most patriotic demonstration of faith in our country with the splendid Queen's funeral and few of us will forget the sight of the Guards, the most loyal of soldiers, acting as pallbearers.

These pilots are utterly selfish and utterly naive with it. China has been remarkably successful at infiltrating every level of our society in ways too numerous to mention. The Confucius Institute has found a place in many British Universities not least the Institute of Education in London.

Something is seriously wrong with our culture and values and this country needs to wake up pretty quickly to all the threats.

In the meantime what to do about these pilots? The BBC have just broadcast that a Bill will be fast tracked through Parliament to deal with the problem. I don't think we need these pilots back here and I don't think any airline needs to employ them. I also don't want my taxes funding their pensions.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:13
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It is interesting that all the media reports on this are using EXACTLY the same quotes, which would suggest a single source that no one has been able to identify or even give a hint about. Some one is causing trouble here. I also wonder if this has anything to do with the current popularity of the DCS “championships”.
Maybe SpazSinbad is selling off his vast experience from his 600 hours of A-4 flying from 40 years ago.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:22
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Integrity and moral values derive (among other sources) from those exhibited in the 'top' echelons of society ... so no surprises there, then !
In more practical considerations, these grubby individuals have taken advantage of a hugely expensive training regime which, not only cost them nothing, but for which they were more than adequately paid.
Compare this with the self-financing endeavours of those who, on attaining paid employment have to repay part or all of their training costs, shows the greed-driven antics of these creatures.for what it is
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:22
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Reminds me of the old joke when instructing potential 'non-friendly' nations, that the best form of evasive action was a 30 degree banked turn to the right.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:23
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Wig Wag

It’s great of you to pass judgment so swiftly and we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, you are clearly comparing the lived experiences of past generations and subsequent generations. Do you remember the (distant now it seems) era of immense prosperity where people were able to build up a comfortable existence and a pilot’s salary could give you an excellent lifestyle? Well that is long gone. The reason people now look further afield is because our senior officers think just like you and cannot equate their glorified existence as a junior pilot with the reality that now faces our current crop. Poor pay, poor military housing, minimal chances of getting a decent step on the housing ladder and barely enough disposable income for a family holiday at Butlins let alone anywhere more exotic.

When put against this background the idea of securing your family’s future by working overseas becomes harder to resist.

You call them traitors. I say that’s business. The RAF made it very clear to us all during the 2010 SDSR that we were entirely disposable and they have shown an increasing tendency to operate like a business. Welcome to the open market.

BV
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:25
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Originally Posted by 70 Mustang View Post
how would China know, until too late, if these instructors were intentionally teaching them the very worst way to respond to "Western" fighter jet tactics, whilst the "Western" fighter jet tactics are being changed after an eyes on examination of current Chinese fighter jet tactics?
There is a strong belief in certain quarters that China has compromised a great deal of SECRET level operational information, to include western fast jet tactics, techniques and procedures. They have hoardes of hackers who try and sometimes succeed in breaching SECRET internet systems like the American SIPRNET.

In short, they don't need anyone to give them the secrets - they need people to help them build the core skills and competencies to execute their own gameplan. So, this talk about whether these 30 people have breached the OSA is academic.

To the 30 people in question: I hope the money is worth it...
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:29
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
You call them traitors. I say that’s business. The RAF made it very clear to us all during the 2010 SDSR that we were entirely disposable and they have shown an increasing tendency to operate like a business. Welcome to the open market.

BV
Which makes them mercenaries.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Courtney Mil View Post
It is interesting that all the media reports on this are using EXACTLY the same quotes, which would suggest a single source that no one has been able to identify or even give a hint about. Some one is causing trouble here. I also wonder if this has anything to do with the current popularity of the DCS “championships”.
Maybe SpazSinbad is selling off his vast experience from his 600 hours of A-4 flying from 40 years ago.
Yes, that was my first impressions also. This story certainly appears to have been 'given' to the nationals by the MoD. I suspect the MoD may have told the pilots involved, 'Cease, or we will put it in the media', which appears not to have done the trick.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:39
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Ewan

That depends on what your definition of mercenary is.

a professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army.

hired professional soldier who fights for any state or nation without regard to political interests or issues


Many definitions exist.

They haven’t been hired to fight. They’ve been hired to teach. And I very much doubt they are wearing the uniform of the Chinese military. Are they mercenaries?

Was I a mercenary when I was on Loan Service in Oman? Was I a mercenary when I was in Canada? What if I had been sent on Ops in either of those jobs? Would that have changed things?

My point is don’t be so quick to judge. And calling people mercenaries (rightly or wrongly) as a form of insult does not address the root cause of the problem.

BV
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:43
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy View Post
Which makes them mercenaries.
Unless they have been hired to fly for the PLAAF, they are not mercenaries. Any more than any of the top level military/political leadership are mercenaries for taking on well paid jobs with private industry related to their previous roles.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:46
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
That depends on what your definition of mercenary is.

Many definitions exist.
Agreed, Bob. That's just my personal take.




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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:47
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They're selling themselves short at £250,000. A Labour Party minister costs the Chinese at least £500,000.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:49
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Originally Posted by Courtney Mil View Post
It is interesting that all the media reports on this are using EXACTLY the same quotes, which would suggest a single source that no one has been able to identify or even give a hint about. Some one is causing trouble here. I also wonder if this has anything to do with the current popularity of the DCS “championships”.
Maybe SpazSinbad is selling off his vast experience from his 600 hours of A-4 flying from 40 years ago.
Firstly, good to see you posting again.

Secondly, the SpazSinbad comment was below the belt... or was it banter?

Thirdly, I suspect that there is more than one source, but that only one can be quoted. Major news organisations like Sky and the BBC have editorial standards that prevent them running stories that are single sourced.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:52
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
They're selling themselves short at £250,000. A Labour Party minister costs the Chinese at least £500,000.
And the Tory party has sold its soul to Russian oligarchs while King Charles (or Prince, as he was then) takes million pound bungs from Arabs in plastic shopping bags, which all kind of goes to Bob's point about calling out these individual pilots just looking out for their financial futures when the issue is much more systemic than that, and clearly driven by those at the highest levels of power in this country.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 09:56
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Some of these Pilots that have gone to China are BA pilots.

I assume they could be Prisoned for doing this?

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