China recruits former British military pilots
And the Tory party has sold its soul to Russian oligarchs while King Charles (or Prince, as he was then) takes million pound bungs from Arabs in plastic shopping bags, which all kind of goes to Bob's point about calling out these individual pilots just looking out for their financial futures when the issue is much more systemic than that, and clearly driven by those at the highest levels of power in this country.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Whilst it’s a tremendous backhand compliment revealing a level of subconscious inferiority - I’m not sure a few British retired pilots are going to revolutionise the Chinese Air Force.
Let’s remember we don’t have a “Top Gun” equivalent or Aggressor squadron and the last time a Brit pilot shot down an enemy aircraft was 1982, those pilots having long retired.
You can buy good books on tactics*, but at the end of the day it’s embedded QWI totally familiar with their aircraft’s performance and weapons - which I doubt they’d release to a foreign instructor - followed by hours of continuous training in ACT, 2v2, 4v4 and combat training against dissimilar types.
You can buy talk about battle management, flanking, beaming etc etc. But it has to become second nature.
Which is why we have, or had, so many exercises such as Cope Thunder, Red Flag, Mallet Blow etc.
Unless they’ve run off with th3 technical manuals for the weapons or electronics of something the Chinese want to copy or defeat I can’t see this as more than an embarrassment,, not a disaster.
* Recommended, if slightly outdated.
Let’s remember we don’t have a “Top Gun” equivalent or Aggressor squadron and the last time a Brit pilot shot down an enemy aircraft was 1982, those pilots having long retired.
You can buy good books on tactics*, but at the end of the day it’s embedded QWI totally familiar with their aircraft’s performance and weapons - which I doubt they’d release to a foreign instructor - followed by hours of continuous training in ACT, 2v2, 4v4 and combat training against dissimilar types.
You can buy talk about battle management, flanking, beaming etc etc. But it has to become second nature.
Which is why we have, or had, so many exercises such as Cope Thunder, Red Flag, Mallet Blow etc.
Unless they’ve run off with th3 technical manuals for the weapons or electronics of something the Chinese want to copy or defeat I can’t see this as more than an embarrassment,, not a disaster.
* Recommended, if slightly outdated.
For anyone who has signed the OSA, irrespective if they are ex-BA< ex-Virgin, ex-TUI, etc., it is applicable for life - no exceptions.
For those who have taken the opportunity, when China decides to take action on some of its issues, what value personal neutrality.
IG
For those who have taken the opportunity, when China decides to take action on some of its issues, what value personal neutrality.
IG
Its a cheap and quick way for China to obtain intellectual property or tactics and procedures. They have been doing it with British academics such as Professors for years. I woild guess it starts with wininig and dining followed by first class return trips to nice parts of China such as Hainan then the cash contracts.
What they are getting in exchange for money is the know-how necessary to build the core competencies they need to be able to execute their own gameplans. That's why, for example, they have these people flying in their LIFT programme, where OBFM, DBFM and SAT phases contain nothing is classified, but a whole bunch that will form the foundations for their front-line flying in the future.
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China has infiltrated a lot of the country. During covid you could see it with a lot of academics, the WHO was bought by China too. £250K for fast jet pilots teaching the Chinese military seems quite low pay though to be honest.
It’s great of you to pass judgment so swiftly and we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, you are clearly comparing the lived experiences of past generations and subsequent generations. Do you remember the (distant now it seems) era of immense prosperity where people were able to build up a comfortable existence and a pilot’s salary could give you an excellent lifestyle? Well that is long gone. The reason people now look further afield is because our senior officers think just like you and cannot equate their glorified existence as a junior pilot with the reality that now faces our current crop. Poor pay, poor military housing, minimal chances of getting a decent step on the housing ladder and barely enough disposable income for a family holiday at Butlins let alone anywhere more exotic.
When put against this background the idea of securing your family’s future by working overseas becomes harder to resist.
You call them traitors. I say that’s business. The RAF made it very clear to us all during the 2010 SDSR that we were entirely disposable and they have shown an increasing tendency to operate like a business. Welcome to the open market.
BV
When put against this background the idea of securing your family’s future by working overseas becomes harder to resist.
You call them traitors. I say that’s business. The RAF made it very clear to us all during the 2010 SDSR that we were entirely disposable and they have shown an increasing tendency to operate like a business. Welcome to the open market.
BV
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Whether what these ex-RAF pilots are doing assisting the Chinese is legal or not, it is without doubt ethically dubious.
Isn't this the endgame of Capitalism though? Ethical considerations be damned, just make money by whatever means you can get away with?
I'm sure they'll all be able to buy very nice beds to sleep soundly in...
Isn't this the endgame of Capitalism though? Ethical considerations be damned, just make money by whatever means you can get away with?
I'm sure they'll all be able to buy very nice beds to sleep soundly in...
It's not surprising so many of these highly sought commodities are offering their skills to foreign militaries: they have had almost a pay freeze since 2010 (in real terms, a remuneration reduction of over 20% with reducing allowances), had their pensions devalued, made to work excessive hours and increasingly deployed due to a smaller pool of qualified frontline pilots (mainly due to a broken pilot training system over the last decade). These are highly talented, hard working and smart people who've put in the extra effort during their careers and now seek an opportunity to reap the rewards to compensate for being undervalued and overworked by the RAF and RN. Good for them. They won't be giving away any secrets. Just instilling safe aviation operations and teaching generic tactics.
I am NO friend of China - indeed I've always favoured giving recognition to democratic Taiwan rather than the autocratic mainland. However, when this was all set up, you must remember that HMG were all over China, promoting trade as being the way to encourage liberalisation.
Xi Xin Ping was being bought pints in the pub near Chequers, George Osborne and David Cameron were visiting Beijing, and we were all being encouraged to view China as a valued partner and potential friend. Those who set this up were no doubt encouraged to do so.
One can only imagine that the flow of intelligence from China must have been useful, while hoping that those involved were smart enough not to give away anything that they should not have done.
Xi Xin Ping was being bought pints in the pub near Chequers, George Osborne and David Cameron were visiting Beijing, and we were all being encouraged to view China as a valued partner and potential friend. Those who set this up were no doubt encouraged to do so.
One can only imagine that the flow of intelligence from China must have been useful, while hoping that those involved were smart enough not to give away anything that they should not have done.
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Of course it does takes a dozen or so skilled people out of the current talent pool which the current training system will take what.... 2 or 3 years to make up.
Could that be the Chinese reasoning?
Could that be the Chinese reasoning?
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It's not surprising so many of these highly sought commodities are offering their skills to foreign militaries: they have had almost a pay freeze since 2010 (in real terms, a remuneration reduction of over 20% with reducing allowances), had their pensions devalued, made to work excessive hours and increasingly deployed due to a smaller pool of qualified frontline pilots (mainly due to a broken pilot training system over the last decade). These are highly talented, hard working and smart people who've put in the extra effort during their careers and now seek an opportunity to reap the rewards to compensate for being undervalued and overworked by the RAF and RN. Good for them. They won't be giving away any secrets. Just instilling safe aviation operations and teaching generic tactics.
I mean, these are all industries that have suffered being undervalued and overworked (especially so my profession, nursing) but aren't resorting to aiding a potential enemy through transfer of skills/knowledge.
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Thats the problem. Is China an enemy or just a country with an aggressive foreign policy? Don't forget that the Me109 prototype flew with a Kestrel engine and the MiG 15 was developed around the copy of the RR Nene which was provided to the USSR. Fast jet pilots have been going to Saudi Arabia for years even though there is a suggestion of official support for the September 11 operation. Personally I don't think it will make much difference because they will be trying to teach pilots indoctrinated in CCP culture to fly with a Western mindset. It could also be unofficially sanctioned as a way of getting intel on the PLAF way of doing business.
A good example of just because we can not necessarily mean we should.
Hold on…
There are several high horses missing their riders.
Is it just the case that trades other than pilots (I’m being deliberately flippant so don’t get too precious!) don’t get offered jobs with such salaries that is making so many people allow their knickers to become so irrevocably knotted?
BV
Is it just the case that trades other than pilots (I’m being deliberately flippant so don’t get too precious!) don’t get offered jobs with such salaries that is making so many people allow their knickers to become so irrevocably knotted?
BV
