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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Old 9th Jun 2023, 03:35
  #481 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
I seem to recall the key aspiration for many engineers in the past was four props.....
Aaah! now three props surrounded by a light blue circle I believe, as some of the more venerable ppruners will recall, it was an inverted chevron once!

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Old 9th Jun 2023, 03:40
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Originally Posted by The B Word
I suspect this was a legacy change and a part of the hair-brained new Air Command Operating Model (ACOM) that is Wiggy’s and Turner’s legacy, where we see 2 Gp Capts on a main station instead of one. How’s that for progress?

Sir Rich took command on Friday and the ASC and DCAS change was on the Monday. That would be some of the fastest staff work ever, if it was!
Two Group Captains on one station, is the other one in charge of catering or something?

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Old 9th Jun 2023, 04:03
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I can think of one unit not too far away from Lincoln with a Group Captain Staish. A lodger unit on the base is commanded by a 1* with 3 more Group Captains beneath him.
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 06:55
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Originally Posted by The Oberon
I can think of one unit not too far away from Lincoln with a Group Captain Staish. A lodger unit on the base is commanded by a 1* with 3 more Group Captains beneath him.
Waddington:

Lodger unit 1 = Air (and now Space) Warfare Centre, the Commandant of which has been a 1* since forever, with 3 divisions which together form the centre of the RAF's tactical expertise.

Lodger unit 2 = ISTAR Force HQ. 1* Force Commander and 3 gp capts responsible for generating and operating a force of 5, soon to be 6 aircraft types spread across 3 bases, including Waddington itself. HQ covers off all the staff functions which used to be done in Group at High Wycombe, but were moved out over a decade ago to make room for jobs being displaced from MOD to High Wycombe during the Levene reforms.

Other lodger units including the Air Battlespace Training Centre and RAFAT (led by wg cdrs)

Stn Cdr = responsible for infra, discipline, security, airfield services, ATC, ground engineering, supply and logs services etc. But not responsible for the outputs of the resident lodger units, all of whom report to superiors elsewhere (High Wycombe in the 1*s case). Similar responsibilities to an Army garrison commander, who have been OF5s since forever.

Are you intimating that any of that is excessive?
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 07:03
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What happens if one of the 1*s undermines the staish's authority? For example tells him to get his hair cut in front of an SAC or something?

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Old 9th Jun 2023, 07:11
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
What happens if one of the 1*s undermines the staish's authority? For example tells him to get his hair cut in front of an SAC or something?

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The Staishes report to a different 1* (and 2*) so they could tell the 1* to poke off. In reality neither would do anything so dumb. It's like asking what if an AOC cut the Staish off at the knees in front of their people during an annual formal inspection... it doesn't tend to happen as it's against the Service's interest.
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 07:37
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I trust EASY STREETS final comment about “ being in the services best interests” were ironic in the context of what’s just gone down?

my grandson, just about to graduate from uni was lined up for the RAF making him the fourth generation to have served,, having followed all that’s gone on he has withdrawn his application and will reapply the the RN to fulfil the same role.

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Last edited by cliver029; 9th Jun 2023 at 07:38. Reason: Bad grammer
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 08:52
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Originally Posted by cliver029
I trust EASY STREETS final comment about “ being in the services best interests” were ironic in the context of what’s just gone down?
The AFCAS results show that the outgoing leadership was not held in high regard by the Service. I'm confident that their successors recognise that and are getting stuck into the task of undoing the damage.
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 10:21
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Funny how at some point a few of them go strange. I was a member of a Commonwealth country's Air Force and during my final years we had a CAS whose sole interest was that airmen should swing their arms shoulder high when marching. He had a training aircraft painted in his personal colour scheme and would fly himself from one parade to another around the country. Woe betide any transgressors, the CAS would point them out to the disciplinary staff who would remove them from the march past. The station would receive a repeat the following month. Another weirdo was a Group Captain whose thing was to tour the station car parks to check that the vehicle stickers were appropriate and properly affixed. I suppose, as someone else pointed out, when hostilities commence these people would be replaced by proper fighters.

Last edited by bugged on the right; 9th Jun 2023 at 11:11.
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 11:03
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
Waddington:

Lodger unit 1 = Air (and now Space) Warfare Centre, the Commandant of which has been a 1* since forever, with 3 divisions which together form the centre of the RAF's tactical expertise.

Lodger unit 2 = ISTAR Force HQ. 1* Force Commander and 3 gp capts responsible for generating and operating a force of 5, soon to be 6 aircraft types spread across 3 bases, including Waddington itself. HQ covers off all the staff functions which used to be done in Group at High Wycombe, but were moved out over a decade ago to make room for jobs being displaced from MOD to High Wycombe during the Levene reforms.

Other lodger units including the Air Battlespace Training Centre and RAFAT (led by wg cdrs)

Stn Cdr = responsible for infra, discipline, security, airfield services, ATC, ground engineering, supply and logs services etc. But not responsible for the outputs of the resident lodger units, all of whom report to superiors elsewhere (High Wycombe in the 1*s case). Similar responsibilities to an Army garrison commander, who have been OF5s since forever.

Are you intimating that any of that is excessive?
Yes

Extra words added to make up the required amount - a bit like Group Captains
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 11:14
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
Just a thought, has there ever been, certainly in recent times, a 4-star engineer serving before?

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I don't think any others since Michael Alcock (As AOC-in-C Logistics Command) in the mid 90s and he was the first on the Air Force Board.
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 12:57
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Easy,ref #486,,I and half of the Station at Leeming sometime `77-80`,when the AOC Training Command,one `P Barsto,( `B the B£$%$6rd) ran a `hijack` exercise,which ended on the main dispersal with the `Staish` having to carry a `bag of gold/money` out to the AOC`s aircraft,,wearing only his `shreddies and socks`.....
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 14:28
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Then there was Odi’s Staish who given a mini while his car was serviced decided the gate guard hadn’t saluted him correctly.

So he reversed up to remonstrate with him as the Barrier (that needed to come down fully before it would go back up) crashed down on his mini roof pinning it to the spot.
The then irate Staish kept shouting at the powerless guard to raise it again while the motor determined to go down continued running inflicting more damage.

The same Staish who’s wife driving the said car alone with the flag still on stopped to have a go at a couple of airmen for not saluting her !
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Old 9th Jun 2023, 14:35
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Originally Posted by sycamore
Easy,ref #486,,I and half of the Station at Leeming sometime `77-80`,when the AOC Training Command,one `P Barsto,( `B the B£$%$6rd) ran a `hijack` exercise,which ended on the main dispersal with the `Staish` having to carry a `bag of gold/money` out to the AOC`s aircraft,,wearing only his `shreddies and socks`.....
I was told this very story back around 1983-85, a Flt Sgt Eric Forsyth, ATC, recalled it, just as you say. He said as the AOC arrived, a Helicopter arrived requiring an emergency landing. Apparently, the station was made ready for the AOC's annual formal inspection at the time and it all went to pieces as Bairsto stepped from his car. The Chopper had landed on a far dispersal when a bunch of blokes with guns and cam cream got out and launched an attack on the parade while Bairsto looked on and asked the Staish, quite calmly, what he was going to do about it. That's more or less the version I got near enough 40 years ago.

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Old 9th Jun 2023, 21:11
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A good start from the new CAS. Our mission is to “Fly and Fight” - correct. I hear that 1(F) Sqn changed their signature blocks en masse to reflect that

Whilst he tipped his hat at Wokeston (as would be professionally courteous to do so), isn’t it obviously short as an accolade and nod to his predecessor? My understanding is that he has given himself 3 months to visit the RAF, understand fully what is wrong, roll his sleeves up and get on it. His 3 priorities of redeveloping an “operational mindset”, sorting our “people” and getting after “infrastructure” are obvious, but a combat indicator that we are dealing with someone who gets his people and that I trust to get after the right things after the 4-year Wokeston debacle.

He was a great ACAS, here’s hoping he is an even better CAS. Heaven knows, we need it. I stand fully behind him to restore the pride in a great Service that many are proud to serve in.
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Old 12th Jun 2023, 07:32
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Will the new CAS dump the term Aviator which was intended to replace Airman as non gender specific. ?
It seems Wiggy got that wrong, too. Aviator is a male term, For female its Aviatrix, according to a letter in the Sunday Times. Yesterday !
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Old 12th Jun 2023, 14:13
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Aviator was, and still is as far as I'm concerned, the term for one who aviates i.e. as aircrew. But I suppose that the use of 'aviator' for every Orderly Room clerk, tradesman (oops, tradesperson) and every humble erk makes as much sense as calling a man a woman despite possessing a full set of equipment.
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Old 12th Jun 2023, 15:35
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sorting our “people” and getting after “infrastructure” are obvious
While showing the newest and up to date buildings in his speech and not the falling apart crumbling buildings they actually possess.
I was stunned when i did a photoshoot at Cosford and they had water on the floor making a good reflection, chatting to the RAF guy there and thanking him for putting down the water I was aghast when he said they hadn't, it was the roof that leaked so bad.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 16:39
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Wigston just got awarded the US Legion of Merit at RIAT!

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Old 16th Jul 2023, 17:03
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
Wigston just got awarded the US Legion of Merit at RIAT!
Bleurgh.
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