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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Old 20th Aug 2022, 22:29
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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Most people on this forum from the UK are likely to be tracking the current scandals engulfing the Royal Air Force at a Senior Leadership level.

Can the Chief of the Air Staff really survive this onslaught?

No statement has been released from his office. Ben Wallace is not known to pity fools, I wonder what conversations are occurring behind closed doors.

Genuinely trying to spark some debate, the RAF seems to be in disarray according to the media…

Mr Vice.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 22:39
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I suppose it depends on what he was actually briefed to do. I know that Ben Wallace said he only had one job to do and that was to sort out pilot training, but the politicians dictate what the CAS can or can't do.
That being said, the man has single-handedly destroyed the whole ethos of the RAF while doing nothing about the real issues of infrastructure, retention, training, Service life in general, and I, for one, will be very glad to see him go.
Perhaps Gerry Mayhew is being warmed up to take over very soon?
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 22:43
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What with the MFTS fiasco as well can any of the “Senior Commanders” (as identified on the RAF website) survive? Whilst, I assume, the buck stops with Wiggy the others are all complicit. If I was a one star or above and currently in a joint, overseas or NATO appointment etc. I would be keeping my ear very close to the ground as a few new brooms may be required (assuming these individuals don’t have ‘dirty hands’ from their previous appointment(s)).
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 08:15
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Standard PPRuNe, the thread has drifted within 4 posts, and not in a positive way. Senior officer numbers vs aircraft numbers is an old and irrelevant equation.
the OP asks a very relevant question and this post would benefit from directly addressing it.

My opinion: even today in the papers, there are column inches dedicated to this, and that’s a long time in politics. I think it’s time for him to finally do the right thing and to go. There is no other way that the reputation is going to start improving. Beyond that, the direction to the new chief needs to be set by the new PM and I imagine that will be to fix the pipeline (of all types), and nothing more.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:03
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I see this thread has broadened out quickly from the OP's pre-occupation with the CAS. I have always felt that the structure of the RAF is its Achilles Heel. Unlike the other two Services which evolved over time to provide a command structure that served their purposes, the RAF was designed from the get go, and the purpose it served was to be politically controllable so that its very existence was approved by a government that wanted more bang for its buck. That worked out well then, didn't it? The result is that leaders, rather than managers, aren't needed much outside of the station gates. The need is simply for managers to man the various levels of the pyramid. Of course they are given impressive titles to suggest otherwise; Air Officer Commanding, Air Officer Commanding -in-Chief, etc, but in reality they are managers, and like all managers, pave their way to the top not by leadership but by plunging knives into the backs of their competitors and/or dreaming up 'good ideas' that no-one else had bothered with. Nothing new there, think 'Big Wings'...

The real Royal Air Force has always been behind those Station Gates, particularly in times of total war. When it was massively expanded it naturally threw up many more leaders which went on to fill the pyramid. The likes of Mickey Martin and Gus Walker that my generation was fortunate to serve under. The dross took over quickly enough though, and normal service was resumed. I know this is all broad-brush generalisation and massively unfair to those Air Officers who dedicated their lives to the RAF rather than themselves, but the system was against them and is now to all intents and purposes bust. What needs to be done to fix it is beyond me. I prefer smaller fish to fry, the reform of UK Military Airworthiness and Accident Investigation by making them both independent of the MOD (and all those RAF Air Officers) and of each other. RAF VSOs have heavily compromised the airworthiness of all UK Military Aircraft and are now it seems setting out to compromise the crews that man them. Goering could not have wished for more!
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:04
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And within 5 posts……
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:06
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This post is about whether the current CAS can/should survive, it’s not about airworthiness, which has been subject to many posts by you. For once, can you allow it to remain relatively on topic?
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:15
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My post wasn't about airworthiness (other than a personal aside in passing). It wasn't about the CAS either, I must admit. Others though seem to share my view that there is a systemic fault in the RAF that throws up this particular CAS and the rest of the RAF High Command. It just so happens it is that same systemic fault that has compromised UK Military Air Safety and in particular the 'A' word.

There, MG, I didn't even mention airworthiness now did I? Oh, sorry!
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:31
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
My post wasn't about airworthiness (other than a personal aside in passing). It wasn't about the CAS either, I must admit. Others though seem to share my view that there is a systemic fault in the RAF that throws up this particular CAS and the rest of the RAF High Command. It just so happens it is that same systemic fault that has compromised UK Military Air Safety and in particular the 'A' word.

There, MG, I didn't even mention airworthiness now did I? Oh, sorry!
I agree, there is a systematic fault that brings up this type of CAS and that’s part of the discussion. Let’s have a separate thread about the MAA and its faults. What, there are plenty of those? Really?
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:41
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As one boss of mine said before he PVR'd at the end of the70's " Äll they are looking for now is bloody functionaries! "
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 09:55
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Originally Posted by Mr. Vice View Post
Most people on this forum from the UK are likely to be tracking the current scandals engulfing the Royal Air Force at a Senior Leadership level.

Can the Chief of the Air Staff really survive this onslaught?

No statement has been released from his office. Ben Wallace is not known to pity fools, I wonder what conversations are occurring behind closed doors.

Genuinely trying to spark some debate, the RAF seems to be in disarray according to the media…

Mr Vice.
No. He has become the story/headlines. That never ends well.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 10:16
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Originally Posted by MG View Post
I agree, there is a systematic fault that brings up this type of CAS and that’s part of the discussion. Let’s have a separate thread about the MAA and its faults. What, there are plenty of those? Really?
I am overjoyed that we share common ground at last MG, but if you agree to open out the discussion from the CAS to the RAF and its supposed systemic faults aren't you becoming part of the heresy you accuse me of? This CAS (and the RAF's leadership in general) is as much a symptom of that systemic fault as is the dire lack of Airworthiness. You approve of discussing the first symptom here but not the second. Now why, I wonder? They are trees in the same wood and they all need to be seen because they all can kill. Certainly lowering standards of aircrew recruitment in the name of 'positive discrimination' will kill just as surely as lack of airworthiness does. Covering up the latter has already killed too many. This isn't a parlour game!
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 10:36
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
I am overjoyed that we share common ground at last MG, but if you agree to open out the discussion from the CAS to the RAF and its supposed systemic faults aren't you becoming part of the heresy you accuse me of? This CAS (and the RAF's leadership in general) is as much a symptom of that systemic fault as is the dire lack of Airworthiness. You approve of discussing the first symptom here but not the second. Now why, I wonder? They are trees in the same wood and they all need to be seen because they all can kill. Certainly lowering standards of aircrew recruitment in the name of 'positive discrimination' will kill just as surely as lack of airworthiness does. Covering up the latter has already killed too many. This isn't a parlour game!
You are seriously over analysing my words and intent, and you have found another outlet to bang the military airworthiness cover up issue. Not all topics fit that.
My intent now is to go and enjoy a brunch and let you over analyse that.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 10:59
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Over analysed what? We agree that the RAF High Command is what it is because of the systemic fault designed into the RAF from the start. Because the RAF High Command is what it is we have this CAS and his woke disciples. Because the RAF High Command is what it is we have the cover up that has led to too many airworthiness related fatal accidents, and will go on doing so until there is real reform of Air Regulation and Accident Investigation. That isn't the reverse side of the same coin, it's the very same side of the same coin! The problem is the same RAF High Command that this thread has rightly opened out to discussion. Chopping the head off that High Command will simply mean replacing it with much the same.

Stove-piping fatal air accidents is classic cover up. Now it seems it is extended to the systemic faults of the RAF itself, some of which should not be up for discussion here.

Have a nice brunch, MG.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 11:10
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Air accidents I would like to see investigated independently, surely something like NATO led investigations could be run, with a lead country from one that operates the type, so it’s full and frank assessment with no sweeping the result under the carpet. I would have said the AAIB but one should imagine that has ex military involved.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 11:54
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Wigston et al might just be lucky.


Naming a new CAS is a call for Min Def and the PM. PM is on holiday, even if in Whitehall. Wallace is not about to start rocking boats, at least until the potential PM's give him a hint as to future employment prospects and anyway he probably has a deskful of Ukrainian stuff and a CGS warning loudly and often that the Army needs to buy replacements for the kit and ammunition sent East. Civil Service advice will be to not take immediate action in current circumstances.

That says to me no push from Main Building, and, as the press will probably get bored early next week, the media pressure will dissipate allowing things to settle, at least until there is a new PM and/or Minister.

Don't give Wigston much hope in the longer term though.

N
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 12:21
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I would have said the AAIB but one should imagine that has ex military involved.
Starting with its head, in fact.
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 14:21
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It's the usual 2 answers when it comes down to something like this.

1. The system is broken
2. Someone isn't using it correctly

Either way its a shambles
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 16:15
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Who was the last airship (let's say 2*+) to get sacked?

CG
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 16:21
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Who was the last airship (let's say 2*+) to get sacked?

CG
That would be Andy T......................... Sorry my mistake he resigned....
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