Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

AUKUS

Old 19th Jan 2023, 16:59
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
"Dreadnaught is following seamlessly from Astute, "

We'll see - we've been building Astutes for over 20 years and they still seem to take forever to appear.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2023, 19:07
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brizzle
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
From that Covert Shores article.

(Astute class) are the only subs outside the U.S. Navy able to launch the Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles, a capability which sets them apart.

This is not correct. The Spanish S-80 class submarines have TTL Tomahawk capability. TTL Tomahawk is out of production and Tomahawk Block 5 has never been produced in TTL format.

The RN is having its stockpile of Block 4 TTL Tomahawks upgraded to Block 5 and the RN and RAN want Raytheon to offer new build Block 5 TTL Tomahawk to maintain capability (RN) and additional capability (RAN for Collins class capability upgrade).

The Marine Nationale use horizontal launch Scalp Naval, which would be another option for the RAN
Flap Track 6 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2023, 21:28
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 107 Likes on 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"Dreadnaught is following seamlessly from Astute, "

We'll see - we've been building Astutes for over 20 years and they still seem to take forever to appear.
US government and HII came in and fixed it for them, france is also having massive delays with thiers, suffren was a 12 year build
rattman is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2023, 03:55
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,872
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
I think that the SSN(R) is shaping up to be a very good submarine for the RAN with all the capabilities that are being sought. The only problem is that it will result in a further delay before entry into service.

If the British are really keen to have the RAN choose the SSN(R) to have a significantly larger fleet to share the development costs, they may elect to accelerate the design process.

As HMS Astute’s reactor only has 25 years of fuel, the RN also has a pressing need to develop the replacement class as quickly as their design capabilities allow.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...launch-system/
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2023, 04:44
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 107 Likes on 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Going Boeing
As HMS Astute’s reactor only has 25 years of fuel, the RN also has a pressing need to develop the replacement class as quickly as their design capabilities allow.
I have been hearing from around that pwr2 core h can be refueled if needed. They need to refuel has been removed but the capability to refuel if required remains. It takes 3 years to refuel a Core H, so astute will need to be refueled around 2035, add 3 years refueling
rattman is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2023, 06:09
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,872
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
I’m aware that the PWR2 Core H can be refuelled but at significant expense & time. As stated in the attached article “In December 2015, HMS Vanguard entered a ‘Long Overhaul Period and Refuel’, which was expected to take about 3 years and cost around £200m. It took almost seven years.” This was the first (&, at this stage, only) PWR2 Core H refuel.

Obviously, most people would prefer that the money was invested in a newer, more capable submarine rather than paying a premium to keep old submarines in service. If it’s at all possible, it makes sense to expedite the design of the SSN(R) - especially if it enables an ally to increase the fleet numbers by 8+.

HMS Vanguard refuel
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2023, 19:52
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 107 Likes on 68 Posts
Austal USA, whose parent company Austal is Australian, has gotten a contract to make modules for both the Virginia and Columbia class submarines

https://www.naval-technology.com/new...ia-submarines/

Also AFR has an article on the program

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0230118-p5cdgu
rattman is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2023, 23:04
  #1148 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,378
Received 1,579 Likes on 717 Posts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...rent-l7kfxdx7n

Australia to buy deep sea mines as China deterrent

Australia is to lace its coast with powerful sea mines to deter China and other potential attackers from sending warships and submarines into the nation’s waters.

Today the government confirmed what will be the nation’s first major investment in the underwater explosives since the Vietnam War era.

“Australia is accelerating the acquisition of smart sea mines, which will help to secure sea lines of communication and protect Australia’s maritime approaches,” a defence department spokesman said. “A modern sea mining capability is a significant deterrent to potential aggressors.”

The plan to mine key strategic choke points, such as straits and harbours, in order to cripple approaching enemy warships and submarines was first revealed by The Sydney Morning Herald on Monday morning.

It is expected that Australia will obtain up to 1,000 of the so-called smart sea mines which are designed to differentiate between military targets and other types of ships.….

The government is expected to unveil in March what it has described as the “optimal pathway” for Australia to acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines with support from the US and UK under the AUKUS defence pact.

The Australian Financial Review reported that three nuclear submarine builders — Electric Boat and Huntington Ingalls Industries in the US, and BAE Systems in the UK — have agreed to take up to 250 Australian workers at each of their shipyards, to be trained in nuclear-powered submarine construction.

ORAC is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 08:33
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
"The plan to mine key strategic choke points, such as straits and harbours,"

Given the size of Australia and the surrounding Oceans I think 1000 isn't going to go very far

A classic "choke-point" would be the strait between Bali & Lombok - but it's over 22 km wide at the narrowest point ....................
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 09:14
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 219
Received 174 Likes on 64 Posts
You could mine Darwin harbour.
bugged on the right is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 12:00
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 392
Received 28 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"The plan to mine key strategic choke points, such as straits and harbours,"

Given the size of Australia and the surrounding Oceans I think 1000 isn't going to go very far

A classic "choke-point" would be the strait between Bali & Lombok - but it's over 22 km wide at the narrowest point ....................
We also need to stay within the Australian 12 mile limit
golder is online now  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 13:37
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
maybe its OK if you put a BIG warning notice on them??
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 15:09
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"The plan to mine key strategic choke points, such as straits and harbours,"

Given the size of Australia and the surrounding Oceans I think 1000 isn't going to go very far

A classic "choke-point" would be the strait between Bali & Lombok - but it's over 22 km wide at the narrowest point ....................
Is it your expectation the Chinese will sail their ships towards a remote part of Australia and that needs to be mined or rather the Australians will have an idea where tactically an aggressor might heads towards?
West Coast is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 02:08
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 392
Received 28 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...rent-l7kfxdx7n

Australia to buy deep sea mines as China deterrent

Australia is to lace its coast with powerful sea mines to deter China and other potential attackers from sending warships and submarines into the nation’s waters.

Today the government confirmed what will be the nation’s first major investment in the underwater explosives since the Vietnam War era.

“Australia is accelerating the acquisition of smart sea mines, which will help to secure sea lines of communication and protect Australia’s maritime approaches,” a defence department spokesman said. “A modern sea mining capability is a significant deterrent to potential aggressors.”

The plan to mine key strategic choke points, such as straits and harbours, in order to cripple approaching enemy warships and submarines was first revealed by The Sydney Morning Herald on Monday morning.

It is expected that Australia will obtain up to 1,000 of the so-called smart sea mines which are designed to differentiate between military targets and other types of ships.….

The government is expected to unveil in March what it has described as the “optimal pathway” for Australia to acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines with support from the US and UK under the AUKUS defence pact.

The Australian Financial Review reported that three nuclear submarine builders — Electric Boat and Huntington Ingalls Industries in the US, and BAE Systems in the UK — have agreed to take up to 250 Australian workers at each of their shipyards, to be trained in nuclear-powered submarine construction.
I think this is significant in the reskilling, to build locally.
golder is online now  
The following users liked this post:
Old 25th Jan 2023, 07:26
  #1155 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,378
Received 1,579 Likes on 717 Posts
Also helps the companies who are struggling to find qualified skilled welders etc to work on their current build programmes. A win-win situation.
ORAC is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 08:15
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
Originally Posted by West Coast
Is it your expectation the Chinese will sail their ships towards a remote part of Australia and that needs to be mined or rather the Australians will have an idea where tactically an aggressor might heads towards?
well if you're talking about strategic points in Australia all the cities are right on the coast (except Canberra) so the Chinese don't have a lot of choice. I suppose they could just invade NW Oz and keep all the iron ore..............
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 08:16
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
"I think this is significant in the reskilling, to build locally."

That's a win -win situation - the US yards are short of people and the Australians need tarining - just as long as they decide to return home eventually
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 08:27
  #1158 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,378
Received 1,579 Likes on 717 Posts
Barrow-in-Furness or Adelaide.

Tricky choice…..

Bigeest risk is how many other skilled workers they take with them when they go home.
ORAC is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 09:50
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Somerset
Posts: 192
Received 42 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC
Barrow-in-Furness or Adelaide.

Tricky choice…..

Bigeest risk is how many other skilled workers they take with them when they go home.

If the three countries/ four builders can get their drumbeats synchronised well enough there might be flying welders to go with flying winemakers from dunnunder.

N

Bengo is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2023, 00:29
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 107 Likes on 68 Posts
guess we will know the plan /answer soon


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...24-p5ceyh.html
rattman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.