Re-joiners be aware
This Guard Duty at High Wycombe also makes me laugh! “Did the nasty man ask you to cover a temporary shortfall in the MPGS, ah, didums!”
Incorrect (again). The current annual allowance bills are being generated by the legacy AFPS75 portions. If you leave and rejoin that AFPS75 has crystallised and so will have no effect on annual allowance. Now run along and find something else to incorrectly snipe at...
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This Guard Duty at High Wycombe also makes me laugh! “Did the nasty man ask you to cover a temporary shortfall in the MPGS, ah, didums!”
As to pay rises, 20K up on previous salary, no claims that the significant extra perks (gym, health insurance, free dental, cycle to work) are a reason to abate salary/constrain pay rises and 5% up on CPI from when I moved. And no longer getting shafted by negative changes to T and C that in the mob, you have absolutely no ability to defend. It doesn't get away from MoD getting manpower for much less than what they would have to if they gotten a-another in off the street to fill the role. Each JPAN is funded through the resource budget, a set amount dependent upon rank and role; it is purely spiteful to remove something that has been earned, considering that if employed by someone else, the benefit would remain untouched.
Incorrect (again). The current annual allowance bills are being generated by the legacy AFPS75 portions. If you leave and rejoin that AFPS75 has crystallised and so will have no effect on annual allowance. Now run along and find something else to incorrectly snipe at...
Last edited by VinRouge; 14th Dec 2019 at 22:17.
Dude, you obviously never did guard duty at Linton on Ouse in the late 80s with pick axe handles then! Also, I can recall doing guard at Winnipeg whilst the engineers slept and I was the reserve crew on the sweeper Herc. It happens, it’s a temporary arrangement, and if people are going to get seriously bent out of shape about a temporary once-or-twice in a career ask then maybe they aren’t made out to be part of the military team?
Yup, it’s the jump in pension 2 years in rank on AFPS75 that is hammering most people due to the way the ‘rank in the last 2 years calculation’ is made. On AFPS05 it might hit folks at OF-4 or above, but for AFPS15 then this is unlikely to be a factor mainly due to the career average calculation. If you can be bothered you can work it out with this step by step guide: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ax-year-201718
Don’t forget that pension tax is not a military thing and if you are provisioning for a pension to pay the same amount as AFPS then the same tax rules will apply if you are a UK resident.
Yup, it’s the jump in pension 2 years in rank on AFPS75 that is hammering most people due to the way the ‘rank in the last 2 years calculation’ is made. On AFPS05 it might hit folks at OF-4 or above, but for AFPS15 then this is unlikely to be a factor mainly due to the career average calculation. If you can be bothered you can work it out with this step by step guide: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ax-year-201718
Don’t forget that pension tax is not a military thing and if you are provisioning for a pension to pay the same amount as AFPS then the same tax rules will apply if you are a UK resident.
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This latter point will be of interest to those who re-joined on 05 second pension terms and who then were forced onto 15 under the NEM, and the associated NEM alignment offer. They needed to serve to 60 to realise the 15 portion of their new pension. Now that the Government have said that all discriminated against AFPS members will revert back to the scheme they were on before 1 Apr 2015 then they can leave at age 55 with a full second AFPS05 pension at age 55. I guess they will have to PVR at 55 though as they have signed on to MEOS 60 by the NEM offer, but when they do they will receive a second pension at 55. Be interesting to see if all those re-joiners leave at 55 or stay on until 60!
Most re-joiners on PAS terms will be much worse off with this reversion to 05, albeit they will be able to claim their second pension 5 years earlier than planned. 55 is young enough to spend 10 years doing something else if they were that way inclined!
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Please bear with me...I left the Service with an AFPS75 immediate pension and elected to take full commutation. If I did re-join I will automatically join AFPS15, as I had no transitional protection during switch over from AFPS75 to AFPS15.
On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?
This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).
I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!
On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?
This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).
I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!
Doing stuff that civvies don’t.
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gijoe
Sorry that is incorrect. You can keep pension on rejoining on AFPS75, however abatement is likely (unless rejoining at a much lower rank). Also, the pay is not abated, it is the pension that is. Your post seems to have that 180 out? Finally, you are not paying yourself, that is nonsense.
PS. Also rejoining if over 55 on AFPS05 works too as then it is a pension and not an EDP.
Sorry that is incorrect. You can keep pension on rejoining on AFPS75, however abatement is likely (unless rejoining at a much lower rank). Also, the pay is not abated, it is the pension that is. Your post seems to have that 180 out? Finally, you are not paying yourself, that is nonsense.
PS. Also rejoining if over 55 on AFPS05 works too as then it is a pension and not an EDP.
I really can’t be arse’d arguing any more.
If you retired at an immediate pension point (IPP) on AFPS75 then you will have a pension in payment. You used to, before Apr 05, have to leave for up to 31 days before you re-joined, but after that date the AFPS75 pension scheme closed. So you join the very next day. If you are on AFPS75/05 the same applies but you can’t keep the AFPS05 EDP portion as that is always 100% abated. If you are on AFPS75/15 then you have to leave for 30 days or they will link service. There are also some oddities around transitional protection (all in the link below). Now, if you left at a higher rank than the one that you re-joined at then you will keep the difference between the 2 salaries in pension with the pension being abated accordingly. If you left some time ago and then rejoined at the same rank, then because inflation has been going up faster than the AFPRB pay rises over the past 9 years or so, then you could also keep a part of the pension. Further, if re-join as FTRS then the difference between Regular full-time X-Factor (14.5%) and Limited Commitment (5%) or Home Commitment (0%) can also see individuals keeping parts of their AFPS75 pension. Finally, if you left as PAS and then re-join at the same rank on Career Spine then you keep a lot of your AFPS75 pension plus you get up to £20k of RRP(F) on top as it’s not abated. I know of ex-Level 35 PAS Sqn Ldrs that have rejoined and their combined pay is £63k (basic pay), they keep £23k of their AFPS75 and then get £20k of RRP(F) Tier 2 Level 6 - total £106k per year and they are earning a new AFPS15 pension too.
It’s all in MMP116 if you don’t believe it: https://assets.publishing.service.go...ssible__2_.pdf
I know this works as I’ve left, and rejoined, with an AFPS75 in payment. I now keep about £6,000 of the pension (the rest is abated) having come back to the same rank after 6 years. The abatement will come off, and it will be index-linked, when I finally retire at age 60 and also an extra AFPS15 pension will also be paid. So be a good chap and don’t spread fake news, will you?
Please bear with me...I left the Service with an AFPS75 immediate pension and elected to take full commutation. If I did re-join I will automatically join AFPS15, as I had no transitional protection during switch over from AFPS75 to AFPS15.
On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?
This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).
I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!
On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?
This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).
I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!
Don’t forget that ‘the package’ for being in the military is much more than the monthly pay - by far the biggest portion is the non-contributory pension that would cost the average Sqn Ldr around £3,500/month after tax. So you need to factor that into your decision process when you do your sums.
If you re-join with a 75 pension in payment then you keep it (if it is abated it will return to full value when you retire for the second time) and you start a brand new pension on 15 terms from the day you re-join. This new pension will, if you serve to 60, be a brand new pension to add to your 75 one. If you leave before 60 (even by a couple of weeks) then your second pension doesn't get paid to you until state pension age.
This latter point will be of interest to those who re-joined on 05 second pension terms and who then were forced onto 15 under the NEM, and the associated NEM alignment offer. They needed to serve to 60 to realise the 15 portion of their new pension. Now that the Government have said that all discriminated against AFPS members will revert back to the scheme they were on before 1 Apr 2015 then they can leave at age 55 with a full second AFPS05 pension at age 55. I guess they will have to PVR at 55 though as they have signed on to MEOS 60 by the NEM offer, but when they do they will receive a second pension at 55. Be interesting to see if all those re-joiners leave at 55 or stay on until 60!
Most re-joiners on PAS terms will be much worse off with this reversion to 05, albeit they will be able to claim their second pension 5 years earlier than planned. 55 is young enough to spend 10 years doing something else if they were that way inclined!
This latter point will be of interest to those who re-joined on 05 second pension terms and who then were forced onto 15 under the NEM, and the associated NEM alignment offer. They needed to serve to 60 to realise the 15 portion of their new pension. Now that the Government have said that all discriminated against AFPS members will revert back to the scheme they were on before 1 Apr 2015 then they can leave at age 55 with a full second AFPS05 pension at age 55. I guess they will have to PVR at 55 though as they have signed on to MEOS 60 by the NEM offer, but when they do they will receive a second pension at 55. Be interesting to see if all those re-joiners leave at 55 or stay on until 60!
Most re-joiners on PAS terms will be much worse off with this reversion to 05, albeit they will be able to claim their second pension 5 years earlier than planned. 55 is young enough to spend 10 years doing something else if they were that way inclined!
for gijoe - I can safely say you CAN receive (some) AFPS75 IP even after re-joining. As others have said, due to Military Salary not keeping up with CPI while I've been out, my expected full pension abatement actually became a £30 per month AFPS75 pension payment. The maths is that Re-joining Wage + £30 AFPS75 IP = less than my wage on initial retirement ADJUSTED FOR CPI over the intervening years. Just got to survive and serve to 60 to get the nicely building AFPS15 second pension. While we are talking about 'things you might not know about pensions' - important to realise there is a 2 year qualifying period for AFPS15. So if you do re-join and leave again inside 2 years, you get nowt for that period of service at state retirement age.
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Would an AFPS15 pension be abated? I'm approaching 60 and if I left, got my 15 pension and then re-joined as FTRS (age limit 65) would I still get my full pension, as I seem to recall reading the AFPS15 cannot be abated?
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However, you are approaching 60 therefore you won't be on AFPS 15 unless you were younger than 52 years old on 1 April 2019. (Protected rights when 15 introduced given to those aged 45 or older on 1 April 2012). So as you are approaching 60 I suspect that you will on retirement be entitled to a purely AFPS 75 or AFPS 05 pension, which if you rejoin could be abated!
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Blimey, getting further work with the mob sure appears complicated!
My last job interview (conducted by text and coincidentally, two years ago yesterday - I'm still there
) went something like this...
Boss Man "can you do xxxx for us?"
Me "maybe, what'll it pay?"
Boss Man "xxxx"
Me "OK, when do I start"
Boss Man "meeting in 30 minutes, join by Hangouts"
Me "OK"
Nobody abated nuffink
Aircrew, engineers, and many other military types are (nearly always) amazingly talented people. There is a wonderful, rich and varied world out there, desperate for your talents and skills - maybe give it a shot?
My last job interview (conducted by text and coincidentally, two years ago yesterday - I'm still there
) went something like this...Boss Man "can you do xxxx for us?"
Me "maybe, what'll it pay?"
Boss Man "xxxx"
Me "OK, when do I start"
Boss Man "meeting in 30 minutes, join by Hangouts"
Me "OK"
Nobody abated nuffink
Aircrew, engineers, and many other military types are (nearly always) amazingly talented people. There is a wonderful, rich and varied world out there, desperate for your talents and skills - maybe give it a shot?