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AFPS15 - government decision.

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AFPS15 - government decision.

Old 18th Jan 2020, 05:49
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 39
Posts: 21
Timelines and Recompense

Firstly, it’s fantastic, but not unexpected, that this issue will “eventually“ be resolved. I haven’t left yet, but have taken my option and leave as a Regular in a little over 8 months after 16 years. I know what I would have received with a 16 year pension because the figures are available via the Pension Tables online and I can use the online calculator to work out the currently expected figure (both Lump Sum and Pension).

The system acts as though this wasn’t predictable, yet many of us predicted in 2014 that the changes were not Legal ones.

Is there anyone actually using a solicitor to fight for their case? I ask because, instead of doing my own thing with my own solicitor, I’d be willing to fight for recompense as soon as practicable instead of waiting for an indeterminate period of time; it’s un my interest to do so.

For info, the difference for me is over 21K Lump Sum and 7-8K per year on my pension; that’s worth fighting for right?

Finally, I find it difficult to believe that those who have left already are not going to be recompensed. What date applies?
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 08:43
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 40
The MOD video at link rather suggests that people who have left would not miss out on any remedy arrived at:

https://forcespensionsociety.org/new...oud-judgement/
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 08:54
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by ForcesPensionSociety View Post
The MOD video at link rather suggests that people who have left would not miss out on any remedy arrived at:

https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/an-update-on-the-mccloud koi-judgement/

chaps, unfortunately, suggestions are not good enough. I think what is sought is legal advice.

With the significant sums of money involved, we need someone to formally find out the background to why multiple people have been told that those now in receipt of AFPS are not going to be considered. If people in service are being deceived as a result of the complete retention car crash that is going to result from further meddling, that is one thing. May I suggest that by not informing these individuals that the advice they have been given is wrong, in fact means their best interests are not being respected?

However, if there is ANY risk that MoD May be taking a line separate to every other public sector body, we need to know so this position can be fought collectively. Pensions society could easily collect extra membership monies specifically for this entire situation, not just for leavers, in order to cover additional legal expenses. There is no need to burn the cash pot. FBU covered their legal action in under 500k, which set a massive precedent. Pensions Society could do it for far less and return a far better deal for their membership than will be by sitting back and waiting for “The Dust to Settle”. I have very little faith in MoD to go for anything else than the pound shop option when we should be pushing for Waitrose.

Last edited by VinRouge; 18th Jan 2020 at 09:28.
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Old 30th Jan 2020, 19:01
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 898
Latest update on MoDNET.....

Hurry up and wait.

Though crew room gossip from the guy shagging the cleaner says announcement in April. YMMV.
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Old 1st Feb 2020, 16:09
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 126
Any decision to limit restorative action to those still serving would contravene the appeal court hearing and would be laughed out of court. But the idea that the organisation that came up with such a blatantly unfair compulsory change in the first place wouldn’t attempt to renege on their responsibilities with an equally naive and ill-researched course of action is not a surprise either. One thing that is a fact is that this is going to take years to sort out not weeks. My supposition is that the bean counters will work out what this potentially costs them, and then they will make an offer to individuals to settle for around 25-35% of what they are owed, in return for a signature stating that is the end of the matter. Many fools who are already resigned to the fact their pension is burned will welcome the injection of funds for a new Discovery Sport and take the money and leave it at that. Not only selling themselves short but converting pension benefit into a one-time purchase or debt-relief gift. Personally, I know roughly what APFS cost me, based on a life expectancy of 85, and if the initial offer is £1 less than my sums then it will be rejected and I’ll see them in court.

Being subject to incompetence and mediocrity at work is one thing, having it rob you of pension benefits in your old age is quite another. And don’t forget by the time I come to claim this pension I will likely as not have to self-fund any social care I might need. So I want my money. They’ve had their service and a court has reminded them of their financial commitments. Now they must meet them.
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Old 2nd Feb 2020, 08:12
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
I and many others will join you. If the compensation amount doesn’t cover lost interest and further compensation at a reasonable rate, and I can demonstrate the entirety of my gratuity and payments have gone paying off mortgage or are currently earning 6%,then I won’t settle.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:05
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
From FPS:The remedy to the ‘McCloud case’, enters a key phase over the coming weeks.

Our CE, Neil Marshall, will be attending the technical discussions in the Ministry of Defence ahead of a full public consultation scheduled for late Spring/early Summer.

The whole purpose is to ensure that the remedy agreed is appropriate, fair to those discriminated against and covers the entire ‘affected population’; serving and veterans.

Please keep reading the updates on our website and social media and accept that this is incredibly complex, and will take time but it is our 2020 main effort and a solution has to be found.

— — — —

I’m currently down ~ £15K from being forced out of AFPS 75. Should the remedy not be satisfactory, I’m in on the group legal action.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:28
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: LGW Overhead
Posts: 2
#metoo. (But this time it means something more concrete!)

I was forced onto AFPS 15 on 1 April 2015 like everyone else and left at the 38 point 7 months later. So I calculate that is a 2% drop in my AFPS 75 pension earnings.

Let's hope veterans are not shafted.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:31
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dundee
Posts: 0
could always be worse you know...

I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 17:16
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 2,501
Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
could always be worse you know...

I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
can you translate into English please???
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 17:51
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dundee
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
can you translate into English please???
Certainly.

The @stard scottish sep gov'ment have raided wm's kitty to the tune mentioned to fund their international jamboneering etc.

Taxation on pension over and above HM Treasury's take.

I am, of course, etc,etc....
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 17:49
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chigley
Posts: 150
An update from the MOD/FPS MOD - FPS Update

Seems that there is to be a public consultation !

"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."

This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 18:22
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Wilts
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Jambo Jet View Post
An update from the MOD/FPS MOD - FPS Update

Seems that there is to be a public consultation !

"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."

This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
Looks that way. Whatever information they provide will have to be watertight to ensure that there is no comeback in years to come. What a cluster of a situation...
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 20:03
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 42
Will the forecast explain what my choice will do to my tax bill?
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 21:25
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by flyingorthopod View Post
Will the forecast explain what my choice will do to my tax bill?

Be interested to see, particularly with rumoured changes to tax relief on pensions in discussion.

In respect of The Armed Forces Pension Society, jolly good show in looking out for our interests.

As for anyone who has proposed previously to serving members that Veterans won’t be being considered (to prevent a retention issue that needs to be fixed with a meaty FRI) - poor form.

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Old 21st Feb 2020, 09:23
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Another jolly good show - the firemen and FBU for bringing the McCloud case. If I can revert to AFPS 75 (as I always wanted to remain on), this will be a very significant lump sum and uplift in pension for life. Thank you very much firefighters for effectively representing those without representation.
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Old 21st Feb 2020, 13:00
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Ibstock
Posts: 23
More likely to leave?

If you take a ( so far undecided) option to rejoin 75 are you more less likely to leave at 55?
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
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Old 21st Feb 2020, 14:03
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chigley
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by Countdown begins View Post
If you take a ( so far undecided) option to rejoin 75 are you more less likely to leave at 55?
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
In a nutshell - Yes more likely!

On AFPS05 (or 75) the retirement age is 55. The MOD knew this and hence there was an offer to allign to the NEM so that your service would qualify for a full pension at retirement age - that was an offer to serve to 60 (AFPS15's retirement age) if you had been assimilated after your initial contract.

It didn’t mean you couldn’t leave at 55, but if you did only the legacy part of your pension would be payable at 55. The AFPS15 part would now not be paid until state pension age unless you opted to actuarially commute some of this pension and thus receive a much smaller overall payout.

I think the airships have to look closer at this.... having realised that forcing SP on to 15 meant financial disadvantage if they retired at 55, NEM allignment was the solution. On reversion back to legacy pension schemes negates the need for such NEM allignment, in fact the AP states that service beyond retirement age (continuance) is bespoke to each concerned SP and will be considered on a case by case basis - therefore I think any SP reverting to previous legacy pension TOS who wishes to serve to 60 will not be prevented from doing so and will even be strongly encouraged to do so (Your car crash scenario if they all leave at 55!).

However, those persons who revert must be able to leave at 55 because to be forced to serve to 60 even after aligning under the NEM offer (and I can imagine being told NEM allignment was a choice) would I think be adding to the discrimination suffered by being forced onto AFPS 15 in the first place

Last edited by Jambo Jet; 21st Feb 2020 at 14:12. Reason: grammar
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Old 21st Feb 2020, 14:08
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 898
https://assets.publishing.service.go...11.2.20_SW.pdf
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Old 21st Feb 2020, 15:08
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Thumbs up

Thank you downsizer for posting that.

There they are, the words I've been waiting to read!:

"This will take time to process, but we are committed to ensuring that all members are treated equally and are able to choose to receive benefits from either their old/legacy scheme (Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) 75, AFPS 05, FTRS 97, RFPS 2005 or NRPS) or new/reformed (AFPS 15) scheme"

Questions remaining now are (1) when and (2) will it really be done fairly, for example: Statutory interest of 8% for late payment? Tax free status of gratuity? Tax liability for those now non-resident in UK and receiving delayed pension income?
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