UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'
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From: UK
The farnborough PR machine is in full flow. Unlikely to lead to much concrete action.
Have been partly involved with a small project with a customer based in Japan. It's a complete pain all in the name of being polite and showing deference to the customer e.g. meetings carry on until the customer is happy - I left after being half hour over the end time on the last one. Also the time difference will cause integration problems. These may seem like small problems but will make life harder than it needs to be.
What have Warton actually done since the end of Typhoon major design? A lot of concepting and in service support on existing products. Unless something really interesting has been happening in the middle of nowhere Australia I think there will be some interesting times ahead. The exception to this is the work they've been doing in Turkey - I saw this as a means to get in to the actual Tempest program when jobs were being advertised during covid, but since clearances were apparently taking months because UKCS was/is on a go slow I couldn't wait around to find out.
I have low confidence we'll see a demonstrator in under 7 years if it even happens (and I'm going to say they'll claim virtual twins will allow them to not make a demonstrator....).
Have been partly involved with a small project with a customer based in Japan. It's a complete pain all in the name of being polite and showing deference to the customer e.g. meetings carry on until the customer is happy - I left after being half hour over the end time on the last one. Also the time difference will cause integration problems. These may seem like small problems but will make life harder than it needs to be.
What have Warton actually done since the end of Typhoon major design? A lot of concepting and in service support on existing products. Unless something really interesting has been happening in the middle of nowhere Australia I think there will be some interesting times ahead. The exception to this is the work they've been doing in Turkey - I saw this as a means to get in to the actual Tempest program when jobs were being advertised during covid, but since clearances were apparently taking months because UKCS was/is on a go slow I couldn't wait around to find out.
I have low confidence we'll see a demonstrator in under 7 years if it even happens (and I'm going to say they'll claim virtual twins will allow them to not make a demonstrator....).
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From: NEW YORK
The farnborough PR machine is in full flow. Unlikely to lead to much concrete action.
Have been partly involved with a small project with a customer based in Japan. It's a complete pain all in the name of being polite and showing deference to the customer e.g. meetings carry on until the customer is happy - I left after being half hour over the end time on the last one. Also the time difference will cause integration problems. These may seem like small problems but will make life harder than it needs to be.
What have Warton actually done since the end of Typhoon major design? A lot of concepting and in service support on existing products. Unless something really interesting has been happening in the middle of nowhere Australia I think there will be some interesting times ahead. The exception to this is the work they've been doing in Turkey - I saw this as a means to get in to the actual Tempest program when jobs were being advertised during covid, but since clearances were apparently taking months because UKCS was/is on a go slow I couldn't wait around to find out.
I have low confidence we'll see a demonstrator in under 7 years if it even happens (and I'm going to say they'll claim virtual twins will allow them to not make a demonstrator....).
Have been partly involved with a small project with a customer based in Japan. It's a complete pain all in the name of being polite and showing deference to the customer e.g. meetings carry on until the customer is happy - I left after being half hour over the end time on the last one. Also the time difference will cause integration problems. These may seem like small problems but will make life harder than it needs to be.
What have Warton actually done since the end of Typhoon major design? A lot of concepting and in service support on existing products. Unless something really interesting has been happening in the middle of nowhere Australia I think there will be some interesting times ahead. The exception to this is the work they've been doing in Turkey - I saw this as a means to get in to the actual Tempest program when jobs were being advertised during covid, but since clearances were apparently taking months because UKCS was/is on a go slow I couldn't wait around to find out.
I have low confidence we'll see a demonstrator in under 7 years if it even happens (and I'm going to say they'll claim virtual twins will allow them to not make a demonstrator....).
While the basic technology may be common, there is a world of difference between a long range strike aircraft and a European air superiority fighter.
Presumably the hope is that melding British engine and aerodynamics know how with Japanese manufacturing capabilities, electronics and software skills will allow both parties to benefit.
However, I don't know of any such prior effort being successful.
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From: Mostly in my own imagination
Maybe this has already been answered, but why are they reusing old names now?
Seems odd that they can't think up new ones ... and unnecessarily confusing. They could even use a similar meteorological convention like Cyclone [1]
Texan and Bulldog are two more that got reused
[1] ok, cyclone was an engine and I guess Zephyr and Sirocco would be confusing too
Seems odd that they can't think up new ones ... and unnecessarily confusing. They could even use a similar meteorological convention like Cyclone [1]
Texan and Bulldog are two more that got reused
[1] ok, cyclone was an engine and I guess Zephyr and Sirocco would be confusing too
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From: Herefordshire
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Tempest seems an odd name especially when we have a Tempest that will fly this year, an original one.
So 5 years until it flies, 10 years using it to verify design and systems concept for the service variant, then another 5 years debating numbers and cost grounds of final design followed by us buying an off the shelf US aircraft, that we will then modify and generally muck about with adding billions and a further 5 year delay to in service date… how am I doing so far?
So 5 years until it flies, 10 years using it to verify design and systems concept for the service variant, then another 5 years debating numbers and cost grounds of final design followed by us buying an off the shelf US aircraft, that we will then modify and generally muck about with adding billions and a further 5 year delay to in service date… how am I doing so far?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Then Zero it is.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...es-2022-12-02/
Japan, Britain and Italy to announce joint fighter project as early as next week - sources
TOKYO, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Japan, Britain and Italy will announce a groundbreaking agreement as early as next week to jointly develop a new advanced jet fighter, two sources with knowledge of the plan told Reuters.
For Tokyo and London it represents the culmination of ever closer defence ties, which in turn give Britain a bigger security role in Asia and provide Japan with new security partners that can help it counter neighbouring China's growing military power.
The push to merge the British led Tempest jet fighter project with Japan's F-X fighter programme was first reported by Reuters in July. It will be the first time that Japan has collaborated with countries beyond the United States on a major defence equipment project.
The announcement will come before Japan releases a new national security strategy and military procurement plan around mid December, the sources said.
That arms build up, which could double the country's defence budget to around 5% of gross domestic product(GDP) over the next five years, will pay for new weapons including long-range missiles designed to deter China from resorting to military action in and around the East China Sea.
Talks between Japan, Britain and Italy on the new jet fighter, which will be led by BAE Systems Plc and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will continue next year to hammer details of the project, such as work share and the designs of variants that each partner will deploy, the sources said.
Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party is also looking at proposals to relax its military export rules so that the joint jet fighter could be exported, Itsunori Onodera, a former Japanese defence minister and influential lawmaker said in an interview last month.
Japan, Britain and Italy to announce joint fighter project as early as next week - sources
TOKYO, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Japan, Britain and Italy will announce a groundbreaking agreement as early as next week to jointly develop a new advanced jet fighter, two sources with knowledge of the plan told Reuters.
For Tokyo and London it represents the culmination of ever closer defence ties, which in turn give Britain a bigger security role in Asia and provide Japan with new security partners that can help it counter neighbouring China's growing military power.
The push to merge the British led Tempest jet fighter project with Japan's F-X fighter programme was first reported by Reuters in July. It will be the first time that Japan has collaborated with countries beyond the United States on a major defence equipment project.
The announcement will come before Japan releases a new national security strategy and military procurement plan around mid December, the sources said.
That arms build up, which could double the country's defence budget to around 5% of gross domestic product(GDP) over the next five years, will pay for new weapons including long-range missiles designed to deter China from resorting to military action in and around the East China Sea.
Talks between Japan, Britain and Italy on the new jet fighter, which will be led by BAE Systems Plc and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will continue next year to hammer details of the project, such as work share and the designs of variants that each partner will deploy, the sources said.
Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party is also looking at proposals to relax its military export rules so that the joint jet fighter could be exported, Itsunori Onodera, a former Japanese defence minister and influential lawmaker said in an interview last month.
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From: Texas
It would appear that congratulations are in order-almost.
TBH, I love the name "Tempest" and I hope it will be kept (even though our own forces doubtless won't buy any).
TBH, I love the name "Tempest" and I hope it will be kept (even though our own forces doubtless won't buy any).
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
VERY interesting thoughts from renowned US aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia on the UK/Italy/ Japan 'Global Combat Air Programme' future fighter news: "this is an exceptional concept, for 8 reasons:"
https://richardaboulafia.com/november-2022-letter
https://richardaboulafia.com/november-2022-letter
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From: 350/3 Compton
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From: Here
There have been lots of names repeated over the years. e.g. Hawker Fury was both a predecessor and a successor of the Hurricane/Typhoon/Tempest line. At least (until the recent Ensign) we don't put II or III after names when they are reused.
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From: The back of beyond
Oddly, we did take Globemaster III from the US, but dropped the II from Lightning. There is no consistency in MoD naming conventions of aircraft.
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From: Hampshire
Italian Defence Minister demanding 33%-33%-33%
Italy defence minister demands equal weight in UK, Japan fighter partnership
Trouble ahead?
19/12/2022
ROME (Reuters) - Italy must have equal treatment in a partnership with Britain and Japan to develop a new jet fighter, Rome's defence minister told Reuters, as talks proceed to define the roles each country has in the ambitious project.
...
Defence Minister Guido Crosetto, a co-founder of Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's Brothers of Italy party, said Rome would make a final decision on how much to invest in the multi-billion-dollar project after more details had been defined.
...
"Italy can only continue along this path if it has the same weight as Japan and Britain on technology, research and later, if it comes to that, on the results," he said in an interview, adding that he wanted a "33%-33%-33%" breakdown.
...
Crosetto said there should be no bar on joining forces with the rival European programme, adding that the GCAP should also aim to find new partners, especially within Europe.
"I think the challenge is to accelerate significantly the research and technology part and then become attractive to other nations in the next two or three years," he said.
Trouble ahead?
19/12/2022
ROME (Reuters) - Italy must have equal treatment in a partnership with Britain and Japan to develop a new jet fighter, Rome's defence minister told Reuters, as talks proceed to define the roles each country has in the ambitious project.
...
Defence Minister Guido Crosetto, a co-founder of Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's Brothers of Italy party, said Rome would make a final decision on how much to invest in the multi-billion-dollar project after more details had been defined.
...
"Italy can only continue along this path if it has the same weight as Japan and Britain on technology, research and later, if it comes to that, on the results," he said in an interview, adding that he wanted a "33%-33%-33%" breakdown.
...
Crosetto said there should be no bar on joining forces with the rival European programme, adding that the GCAP should also aim to find new partners, especially within Europe.
"I think the challenge is to accelerate significantly the research and technology part and then become attractive to other nations in the next two or three years," he said.