UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,340
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From: UK
I know I’m not surprised but threads like this take on a familiar pattern.
It’ll never be as good as a TSR2/Phantom/Hunter. It’s ugly. We won’t get enough. It’ll be rubbish. I wouldn’t have done it like that. Etc, etc ad infinitum.
Clearly I am wired differently to lots of people on this forum. When I read the article I think ‘brilliant, a new fighter’. It shows forethought and ambition with a fair amount of commitment to it so far.
As for the piloted/unpiloted mix I think it makes perfect sense. The mothership and drone concept is not new. It should actually excite us not scare us.
Anyway, I expect I’ll be a lonely voice amongst the masses but why not try to see the positives. If nothing else it shows that my kids may get to be fighter pilots after all.
BV
It’ll never be as good as a TSR2/Phantom/Hunter. It’s ugly. We won’t get enough. It’ll be rubbish. I wouldn’t have done it like that. Etc, etc ad infinitum.
Clearly I am wired differently to lots of people on this forum. When I read the article I think ‘brilliant, a new fighter’. It shows forethought and ambition with a fair amount of commitment to it so far.
As for the piloted/unpiloted mix I think it makes perfect sense. The mothership and drone concept is not new. It should actually excite us not scare us.
Anyway, I expect I’ll be a lonely voice amongst the masses but why not try to see the positives. If nothing else it shows that my kids may get to be fighter pilots after all.
BV
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Not far from EGPH.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Not far from EGPH.
To be pedantic, the UK subsidiary of Leonardo Società per azioni is actually called "Leonardo MW Ltd." (MW for "Marconi-Westland", apparently).
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Here are excerpts of a somewhat skeptical analysis (with some interesting pictures) from thedrive.com:
The U.K.'s New 'Tempest' Stealth Fighter Project Already Faces Serious Challenges - The Drive
The U.K.'s New 'Tempest' Stealth Fighter Project Already Faces Serious Challenges
The country is eager to remain competitive militarily and economically, but it's not clear if they can afford their own advanced fighter jet.
BY JOSEPH TREVITHICK
JULY 16, 2018
The U.K. Ministry of Defense has unveiled new plans for a new stealth fighter jet called Tempest at the biennial Farnborough Airshow. The announcement coincides with the release of a new Combat Air Strategy, which focuses heavily on sustaining and expanding the United Kingdom’s domestic defense industrial base and international cooperation in that sector, but there are already questions about the project’s viability given the country’s increasingly uncertain political and economic future.
Underscoring the emphasis on engagement with the private sector, U.K. Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson offered details about Tempest and the country’s new aerial warfare strategy in front of a full-size notional mockup of the jet at BAE’s booth at Farnborough on July 16, 2018. The U.K.-headquartered firm will lead “Team Tempest,” which also includes engine-maker Rolls-Royce, Italian defense contractor Leonardo, and the European missile consortium MBDA.
“We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this Strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way,” Williamson said. “British defense industry is a huge contributor to U.K. prosperity, creating thousands of jobs in a thriving advanced manufacturing sector, and generating a U.K. sovereign capability that is the best in the world.”
Though Tempest’s design isn’t anywhere close to firm, slides Team Tempest showed at the event described a number of increasingly common basic requirements for an advanced fighter jet design. Though described as a sixth-generation design, what BAE Systems and its partners have shown so far looks very much like what many countries are looking at for new fifth-generation types. The mockup and concept art show a stealthy, modified delta-wing planform with a pair of vertical small, outwardly-canted vertical stabilizers.
It’s not the first time the United Kingdom has attempted to develop its own advanced fighter jet, either. In the 1990s, the Royal Air Force launched the Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) program, which eventually led to the BAE Replica fighter jet concept.
That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.
In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.
That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.
In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.
Regardless, the U.K. government is clearly hoping to leverage these efforts for its own use to both speed up development and find ways to share burdens and otherwise lower costs. By their very nature, stealth fighter programs have proven to be very time-consuming and costly endeavors.
On top of that, despite the prominent Union Jack in the Team Tempest logo, it’s hard to deny that the program already has a distinctly pan-European flavor given the involvement of Leonardo and MDBA. Also, prior to the announcement, the Ministry of Defense had reportedly been in talks with Swedish officials about a shared stealth fighter effort. BAE Systems is already working together with Turkey’s TAI on its TFX program and could join Japan's future stealth fighter project, as well.
The immediate problem, of course, is whether the United Kingdom will be able to position itself as a viable partner, let alone leader in such a program given its present political and economic turmoil. This is almost entirely a result of plans to leave the European Union, also known as the British Exit or Brexit. The U.K. government is struggling to firm up its own negotiating position ahead of attempting to begin talks with E.U. officials on a deal to disentangle themselves from the organization.
If and when the United Kingdom succeeds in extricating itself from the regional bloc, it will immediately throw up barriers to direct industrial cooperation with European defense contractors. It will almost certainly make existing multi-national partnerships, such as MBDA and the Eurofighter consortium that produces the Typhoon fourth generation fighter jet, more complicated.
With a demonstrator aircraft not even scheduled to take to the sky for more than six years, there is a distinct chance that the political and economic environment in the United Kingdom will have changed substantially before the Tempest project even gets going. Prime Minister Teresa May’s government has suffered a number of important resignations just in July 2018, including that of now former Foreign Minister Boris Johnson, and it is unclear how long she may last in that post.
With all this in mind, the Ministry of Defense will have to work hard if it wants to move Tempest ahead at all, let alone keep to its stated timetable. Otherwise, it’s very possible that the program could end up being a repeat of FOAS and the Replica.
The country is eager to remain competitive militarily and economically, but it's not clear if they can afford their own advanced fighter jet.
BY JOSEPH TREVITHICK
JULY 16, 2018
The U.K. Ministry of Defense has unveiled new plans for a new stealth fighter jet called Tempest at the biennial Farnborough Airshow. The announcement coincides with the release of a new Combat Air Strategy, which focuses heavily on sustaining and expanding the United Kingdom’s domestic defense industrial base and international cooperation in that sector, but there are already questions about the project’s viability given the country’s increasingly uncertain political and economic future.
Underscoring the emphasis on engagement with the private sector, U.K. Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson offered details about Tempest and the country’s new aerial warfare strategy in front of a full-size notional mockup of the jet at BAE’s booth at Farnborough on July 16, 2018. The U.K.-headquartered firm will lead “Team Tempest,” which also includes engine-maker Rolls-Royce, Italian defense contractor Leonardo, and the European missile consortium MBDA.
“We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this Strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way,” Williamson said. “British defense industry is a huge contributor to U.K. prosperity, creating thousands of jobs in a thriving advanced manufacturing sector, and generating a U.K. sovereign capability that is the best in the world.”
Though Tempest’s design isn’t anywhere close to firm, slides Team Tempest showed at the event described a number of increasingly common basic requirements for an advanced fighter jet design. Though described as a sixth-generation design, what BAE Systems and its partners have shown so far looks very much like what many countries are looking at for new fifth-generation types. The mockup and concept art show a stealthy, modified delta-wing planform with a pair of vertical small, outwardly-canted vertical stabilizers.
It’s not the first time the United Kingdom has attempted to develop its own advanced fighter jet, either. In the 1990s, the Royal Air Force launched the Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) program, which eventually led to the BAE Replica fighter jet concept.
That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.
In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.
That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.
In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.
Regardless, the U.K. government is clearly hoping to leverage these efforts for its own use to both speed up development and find ways to share burdens and otherwise lower costs. By their very nature, stealth fighter programs have proven to be very time-consuming and costly endeavors.
On top of that, despite the prominent Union Jack in the Team Tempest logo, it’s hard to deny that the program already has a distinctly pan-European flavor given the involvement of Leonardo and MDBA. Also, prior to the announcement, the Ministry of Defense had reportedly been in talks with Swedish officials about a shared stealth fighter effort. BAE Systems is already working together with Turkey’s TAI on its TFX program and could join Japan's future stealth fighter project, as well.
The immediate problem, of course, is whether the United Kingdom will be able to position itself as a viable partner, let alone leader in such a program given its present political and economic turmoil. This is almost entirely a result of plans to leave the European Union, also known as the British Exit or Brexit. The U.K. government is struggling to firm up its own negotiating position ahead of attempting to begin talks with E.U. officials on a deal to disentangle themselves from the organization.
If and when the United Kingdom succeeds in extricating itself from the regional bloc, it will immediately throw up barriers to direct industrial cooperation with European defense contractors. It will almost certainly make existing multi-national partnerships, such as MBDA and the Eurofighter consortium that produces the Typhoon fourth generation fighter jet, more complicated.
With a demonstrator aircraft not even scheduled to take to the sky for more than six years, there is a distinct chance that the political and economic environment in the United Kingdom will have changed substantially before the Tempest project even gets going. Prime Minister Teresa May’s government has suffered a number of important resignations just in July 2018, including that of now former Foreign Minister Boris Johnson, and it is unclear how long she may last in that post.
With all this in mind, the Ministry of Defense will have to work hard if it wants to move Tempest ahead at all, let alone keep to its stated timetable. Otherwise, it’s very possible that the program could end up being a repeat of FOAS and the Replica.
Last edited by Airbubba; 17th July 2018 at 17:23.
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Just behind the back of beyond....
While the relevant bit of MBDA is based in Stevenage…..
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Lincolnshire
I know there is a certain appeal using sequential names with repeating previous names. I was pondering a weather event that did not repeat an earlier one. How about Tsunami? Appropriate for a certain sqn in the future and signifying swamping an enemy 
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Oh, what about:
Fury
Gladiator
Meteor
Camel ? Designed by a Committee? (Hat/Coat/Tasi)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 16,699
Likes: 54
From: Lincolnshire
But they lack the T and weather connection.
How about Turbulent then or Thunder, Thunderer, Torrent, Twister
PS
SASless. Ty, didn't think of that one - Thunderflash
TWhirlwind - if made in Yorkshire
How about Turbulent then or Thunder, Thunderer, Torrent, Twister
PS
SASless. Ty, didn't think of that one - Thunderflash
TWhirlwind - if made in Yorkshire
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 18th July 2018 at 06:29.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 151
From: A better place.
Looks like an under-nourished Austin Allegro rip off of an F-35.
Vertical tails - even though they're canted?
I thought that future penetrating counter air flying wing thing that the USAF has been touting was more sixth generation.
Vertical tails - even though they're canted?
I thought that future penetrating counter air flying wing thing that the USAF has been touting was more sixth generation.
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Welwyn Garden City
FB
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 501
Likes: 91
From: UK
Given all the scepticism, I'd suggest Defiant. And besides, what could possibly go wrong with a name like that.
Last edited by Frostchamber; 18th July 2018 at 11:42. Reason: Typo
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Peripatetic
If you want to sell it to Japan or get them as a partner - call it Tsunami.
though from some of the comments Zero would seem more appropriate to their views....
though from some of the comments Zero would seem more appropriate to their views....
Tabs please!
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Biffins Bridge
If the name has to be weather related then there's only one suitable answer. Given the amount of cash it will consume and the number of politicians who will stick there noses in, it has to be...…
wait for it...….
wait for it...…………
"Trough".
wait for it...….
wait for it...…………
"Trough".
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From: 4 Civvy Street. Nowhere-near-a-base. The Shires.
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From: South East of Penge
I guess the most Famous "super" Typhoon names were those "Divine Winds" associated with wrecking the Mongol fleets trying to invade Japan in the late 13th Century.
Can't see that name catching on though.
Can't see that name catching on though.