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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

Old 17th Jul 2018, 10:13
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VX275 View Post
If the F-35 was the Dave can I suggest this is called Bruce. Look at that chin and the smug look, Bruce Forsyth reincarnate.
Brilliant ! I can just hear the fighter controllers calling "higher, higher...Ö.. lower, lower". All it needs is a small rug on top of the canopy and job done.

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Old 17th Jul 2018, 11:16
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger View Post
Have BAe dusted-off FOAS?
Does explain why "Replica" re-emerged in 2014
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 11:49
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I know Iím not surprised but threads like this take on a familiar pattern.

Itíll never be as good as a TSR2/Phantom/Hunter. Itís ugly. We wonít get enough. Itíll be rubbish. I wouldnít have done it like that. Etc, etc ad infinitum.

Clearly I am wired differently to lots of people on this forum. When I read the article I think Ďbrilliant, a new fighterí. It shows forethought and ambition with a fair amount of commitment to it so far.

As for the piloted/unpiloted mix I think it makes perfect sense. The mothership and drone concept is not new. It should actually excite us not scare us.

Anyway, I expect Iíll be a lonely voice amongst the masses but why not try to see the positives. If nothing else it shows that my kids may get to be fighter pilots after all.

BV
Hey Bob, Iím with you buddy - although I will have retired 10 years prior to ISD!
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 12:53
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
Does explain why "Replica" re-emerged in 2014
Nose profile is a bit different (reverted to a conventional nose-mounted radar configuration, rather than conformal antennae?), but yes, looks like it owes a lot to Replica.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 13:00
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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JN second piece of fiction centred around doomed RAF combat aircraft is called the Tempest lol
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 13:01
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
Not Leonardo, but Leonardo UK which is a British-registered company that will supply the EW systems and the like. Italy a good prospect for partnership, but not on board yet.
To be pedantic, the UK subsidiary of Leonardo Societŗ per azioni is actually called "Leonardo MW Ltd." (MW for "Marconi-Westland", apparently).
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 14:40
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Here are excerpts of a somewhat skeptical analysis (with some interesting pictures) from thedrive.com:

The U.K.'s New 'Tempest' Stealth Fighter Project Already Faces Serious Challenges

The country is eager to remain competitive militarily and economically, but it's not clear if they can afford their own advanced fighter jet.

BY JOSEPH TREVITHICK
JULY 16, 2018

The U.K. Ministry of Defense has unveiled new plans for a new stealth fighter jet called Tempest at the biennial Farnborough Airshow. The announcement coincides with the release of a new Combat Air Strategy, which focuses heavily on sustaining and expanding the United Kingdom’s domestic defense industrial base and international cooperation in that sector, but there are already questions about the project’s viability given the country’s increasingly uncertain political and economic future.

Underscoring the emphasis on engagement with the private sector, U.K. Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson offered details about Tempest and the country’s new aerial warfare strategy in front of a full-size notional mockup of the jet at BAE’s booth at Farnborough on July 16, 2018. The U.K.-headquartered firm will lead “Team Tempest,” which also includes engine-maker Rolls-Royce, Italian defense contractor Leonardo, and the European missile consortium MBDA.

“We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this Strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way,” Williamson said. “British defense industry is a huge contributor to U.K. prosperity, creating thousands of jobs in a thriving advanced manufacturing sector, and generating a U.K. sovereign capability that is the best in the world.”

Though Tempest’s design isn’t anywhere close to firm, slides Team Tempest showed at the event described a number of increasingly common basic requirements for an advanced fighter jet design. Though described as a sixth-generation design, what BAE Systems and its partners have shown so far looks very much like what many countries are looking at for new fifth-generation types. The mockup and concept art show a stealthy, modified delta-wing planform with a pair of vertical small, outwardly-canted vertical stabilizers.

It’s not the first time the United Kingdom has attempted to develop its own advanced fighter jet, either. In the 1990s, the Royal Air Force launched the Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) program, which eventually led to the BAE Replica fighter jet concept.

That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.

In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.

That aircraft, which Tempest appears to borrow from in many ways, never flew and FOAS came to halt in 2005. The country decided instead to purchase the F-35.

In 2012, the United Kingdom and France embarked on what they called the Future Air Combat System (FCAS) project, which focused on developing stealthy unmanned combat air vehicles. Airbus has since used FCAS to describe a Franco-German stealth fighter program that also includes a number of similar requirements to the Tempest program, including supporting loyal wingman-style manned-unmanned teams.

Regardless, the U.K. government is clearly hoping to leverage these efforts for its own use to both speed up development and find ways to share burdens and otherwise lower costs. By their very nature, stealth fighter programs have proven to be very time-consuming and costly endeavors.

On top of that, despite the prominent Union Jack in the Team Tempest logo, it’s hard to deny that the program already has a distinctly pan-European flavor given the involvement of Leonardo and MDBA. Also, prior to the announcement, the Ministry of Defense had reportedly been in talks with Swedish officials about a shared stealth fighter effort. BAE Systems is already working together with Turkey’s TAI on its TFX program and could join Japan's future stealth fighter project, as well.

The immediate problem, of course, is whether the United Kingdom will be able to position itself as a viable partner, let alone leader in such a program given its present political and economic turmoil. This is almost entirely a result of plans to leave the European Union, also known as the British Exit or Brexit. The U.K. government is struggling to firm up its own negotiating position ahead of attempting to begin talks with E.U. officials on a deal to disentangle themselves from the organization.

If and when the United Kingdom succeeds in extricating itself from the regional bloc, it will immediately throw up barriers to direct industrial cooperation with European defense contractors. It will almost certainly make existing multi-national partnerships, such as MBDA and the Eurofighter consortium that produces the Typhoon fourth generation fighter jet, more complicated.

With a demonstrator aircraft not even scheduled to take to the sky for more than six years, there is a distinct chance that the political and economic environment in the United Kingdom will have changed substantially before the Tempest project even gets going. Prime Minister Teresa May’s government has suffered a number of important resignations just in July 2018, including that of now former Foreign Minister Boris Johnson, and it is unclear how long she may last in that post.

With all this in mind, the Ministry of Defense will have to work hard if it wants to move Tempest ahead at all, let alone keep to its stated timetable. Otherwise, it’s very possible that the program could end up being a repeat of FOAS and the Replica.
The U.K.'s New 'Tempest' Stealth Fighter Project Already Faces Serious Challenges - The Drive

Last edited by Airbubba; 17th Jul 2018 at 17:23.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 17:07
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rockie_Rapier View Post
A purely UK product?

Not with Leonardo on board. I wonder how that's going to work out, post Brexit?
The bit of Leonardo involved is what we used to call Selex, and before that GEC-Marconi. They're based in Scotland…..

While the relevant bit of MBDA is based in Stevenage…..
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 18:40
  #69 (permalink)  
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I know there is a certain appeal using sequential names with repeating previous names. I was pondering a weather event that did not repeat an earlier one. How about Tsunami? Appropriate for a certain sqn in the future and signifying swamping an enemy
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 19:24
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I know there is a certain appeal using sequential names with repeating previous names. I was pondering a weather event that did not repeat an earlier one. How about Tsunami? Appropriate for a certain sqn in the future and signifying swamping an enemy
You are picking the Squadron numberplate already

Oh, what about:
Fury
Gladiator
Meteor
Camel ? Designed by a Committee? (Hat/Coat/Tasi)

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Old 17th Jul 2018, 19:58
  #71 (permalink)  
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But they lack the T and weather connection.

How about Turbulent then or Thunder, Thunderer, Torrent, Twister

PS

SASless. Ty, didn't think of that one - Thunderflash

TWhirlwind - if made in Yorkshire

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 18th Jul 2018 at 06:29.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 23:45
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Thunder Bolt.....errrrr....sorry taken already......so how's about Thunder Mug!
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 23:57
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like an under-nourished Austin Allegro rip off of an F-35.
Vertical tails - even though they're canted?
I thought that future penetrating counter air flying wing thing that the USAF has been touting was more sixth generation.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 10:45
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Well I hope that this gets the go-ahead and won't be canned like so many previous generation UK designs.

Perhaps it might even fly on the 70th anniversary of Duncan Sandys sticking his knife into British fighter design?
While researching Duncan Sandys rationale behind the umanned fighter future, or rather all missiles only future, on another different note, National Service, he clearly nailed his colours to the Royal Navy mast. Sandys was appalled at the idea of the Senior Service having to take a share of NS conscripts, he could understand pushing them all in the Army and RAF direction but the Navy! Heaven forefend the dark blue service needed highly skilled and qualified tradesmen etc who would need to be selected. It provided some insight into the the supposedly dispassionate thinking behind the ill-advised notion of an all missile future. Although it wasn't a routine occurrence in 1957, it would be interesting to know if the CAS of the day put it to him that missiles can't shadow and identify and so on?

FB
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 11:42
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post

You are picking the Squadron numberplate already

Oh, what about:
Fury
Gladiator
Meteor
Camel ? Designed by a Committee? (Hat/Coat/Tasi)


Given all the scepticism, I'd suggest Defiant. And besides, what could possibly go wrong with a name like that.

Last edited by Frostchamber; 18th Jul 2018 at 11:42. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 11:51
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Looks like an under-nourished Austin Allegro rip off of an F-35.
That's OK - the significant features of the F35 were all plagiarised from Hawker's P1216 anyway...



PDR
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 11:55
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Oh, what about:
Fury
Gladiator
Meteor
Camel ? Designed by a Committee? (Hat/Coat/Tasi)
Well to be fair the Tempest was the next in the logical sequence, given that Tornado, Typhoon and Tempest were the Hawker 2nd-gen monoplane fighters. I suppose that means the next one to follow the Tempest will have to be Fury, of course.

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:56
  #78 (permalink)  
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If you want to sell it to Japan or get them as a partner - call it Tsunami.

though from some of the comments Zero would seem more appropriate to their views....
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:07
  #79 (permalink)  
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If the name has to be weather related then there's only one suitable answer. Given the amount of cash it will consume and the number of politicians who will stick there noses in, it has to be...…

wait for it...….

wait for it...…………

"Trough".
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:25
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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<giggle>
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