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Old 20th Jan 2024, 15:11
  #861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Sky reporting that Pakistan has:
  • Withdrawn its ambassador in Teheran
  • Expelled the Iranian ambassador
  • conducted retaliatory strikes across the border in Iran.
The ball now being back in Iran”s court…..
Pakistan and Iran have restored diplomatic ties according to the caretaker prime minister Anwaar-ul-Haq Kakar's office. It comes after both countries exchanged drone and missile strikes on militant bases on each other's territory. As a result of the tit-for-tat attacks Iran and Pakistan withdrew their ambassadors from the respective capitals. Both ambassadors are now expected to return to their posts following talks.

There has been no immediate comment from Iran on the talks. Earlier on Friday, Pakistan expressed its willingness to work with Iran on "all issues" following a call between their foreign ministers. "Foreign Minister Jilani expressed Pakistan's readiness to work with Iran on all issues based on spirit of mutual trust and cooperation," the Pakistan foreign ministry said. "They also agreed to de-escalate the situation. The return of ambassadors of the two countries to their respective capitals was also discussed."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68033426
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 22:12
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A private source confirms the killing of a senior Houthi leader whose name was not mentioned.

He was killed along with two Iranian leaders who were experts in the field of missiles, as a result of an American raid on a military base in Al-Bayda Governorate, the Shaab Al-Makhdara area at exactly ⁦‪8:30‬⁩ pm, Sanaa time.

​​​​​​​The raid was carried out via a drone targeting a missile launch pad that was ready to be launched.

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Old 20th Jan 2024, 22:22
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Reports are that over 40 missiles were fired which overwhelmed the Patriot system with around 17 impacting the base.
At approximately 6:30 p.m. (Baghdad time) time Jan. 20, multiple ballistic missiles and rockets were launched by Iranian-backed militants in Western Iraq targeting al-Assad Airbase.

Most of the missiles were intercepted by the base’s air defense systems while others impacted on the base. Damage assessments are ongoing.

A number of U.S. personnel are undergoing evaluation for traumatic brain injuries. At least one Iraqi service member was wounded.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 13:14
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The Biden Administration has reportedly now Agreed with U.S. Defense Officials of the need for a Large-Scale Sustained Military Operation against the Houthi Terrorist Group in Western Yemen, following 10 Days of Missile and Airstrikes which have Failed to End the Houthi’s Attacks on Commercial Shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden; Officials have stated that they do not expect for the Operation to Drag-On for Years like previous Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but that they will not have a End Date set for the Operation.

​​​​​​​https://t.co/rFqa9DWv77
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 15:01
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Originally Posted by ORAC
The Biden Administration has reportedly now Agreed with U.S. Defense Officials of the need for a Large-Scale Sustained Military Operation against the Houthi Terrorist Group in Western Yemen, following 10 Days of Missile and Airstrikes which have Failed to End the Houthi’s Attacks on Commercial Shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden; Officials have stated that they do not expect for the Operation to Drag-On for Years like previous Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but that they will not have a End Date set for the Operation.

https://t.co/rFqa9DWv77
Another 10 year war with lots of casualties that ends up with the usual void of control in the area allowing yet more factions to rush in?
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 15:04
  #866 (permalink)  
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It’s already a void….
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 15:22
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ORAC confirms that - "It’s already a void…."

For holidays, I would think that the whole area is now an "avoid".

So, apart from a lack of Suez revenue for Egypt, what is this all doing to vacations in UAE, Oman, Sharm El-Sheikh, and any other hot and sunny areas in that region? I imagine Israel and Jordan are already off the agenda, if not others - and transit flights through Qatar etc?? Cruise ships transiting the Suez? I doubt it!!

There surely must be a fairly major revenue reduction for many, but I have yet to see any comment from Egypt, Bahrein, UAE etc etc.

Similarly, the trade from India, China, Pakistan, Malaysia etc must have been adversely affected by the need now to transit around the Cape - but again, very little or no comment or support from them that I have seen.

It all seems to be left to the "Great Satan" with some superficial support - and some actual military support from the UK. If Trump follows up his criticism of European NATO nations for not spending enough on defence, and relying on the USA to defend their countries, then I could see that policy going a little further - if he gets in.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 12:37
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Originally Posted by ORAC
A private source confirms the killing of a senior Houthi leader whose name was not mentioned.

He was killed along with two Iranian leaders who were experts in the field of missiles, as a result of an American raid on a military base in Al-Bayda Governorate, the Shaab Al-Makhdara area at exactly ⁦‪8:30‬⁩ pm, Sanaa time.

The raid was carried out via a drone targeting a missile launch pad that was ready to be launched.
I am reminded of a TST.
Originally Posted by ORAC
The Biden Administration has reportedly now Agreed with U.S. Defense Officials of the need for a Large-Scale Sustained Military Operation against the Houthi Terrorist Group in Western Yemen, following 10 Days of Missile and Airstrikes which have Failed to End the Houthi’s Attacks on Commercial Shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden; Officials have stated that they do not expect for the Operation to Drag-On for Years like previous Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but that they will not have a End Date set for the Operation.
I'd like to email each of them a dollar, so that they can buy a clue.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 16:49
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There seems to be consistent theme where all the troublemaker ME countries blame the “Great Satan” for everything. Maybe it is time for the US to leave the Red Sea and let the locals sort out their lake. It’s not like there are no alternatives to the Suez Canal. Yes going around the Cape adds time and money but the shipping companies have already adapted.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 17:24
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
There seems to be consistent theme where all the troublemaker ME countries blame the “Great Satan” for everything. Maybe it is time for the US to leave the Red Sea and let the locals sort out their lake. It’s not like there are no alternatives to the Suez Canal. Yes going around the Cape adds time and money but the shipping companies have already adapted.
There is a particular Kingdom, and a few others like Egypt, who hold that their relationship with the US is beneficial, regardless of various factions within who may abjure the Great Satan.
It's not as simple as you tried to make it.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 20:16
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
There is a particular Kingdom, and a few others like Egypt, who hold that their relationship with the US is beneficial, regardless of various factions within who may abjure the Great Satan.
It's not as simple as you tried to make it.
All of the ME countries that have most directly and severely been effected by the Houthi attacks on shipping have declined to take any role in protecting shipping. They all have universally severely criticized the US for supporting Israel. So I actually think it is that simple.

In any case the threat is now sophisticated Iran supplied anti ship missiles. USN ship self defence is pretty good but it is not perfect. The nightmare scenario is a direct hit with a hundred dead American sailors. A major regional conflict is then inevitable.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 20:38
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
I actually think it is that simple.
Then you need to do some re thinking.
The nightmare scenario is a direct hit with a hundred dead American sailors. A major regional conflict is then inevitable.
No, it is not.
Oddly enough, the USS Cole suicide attack in Yemen didn't cause a major regional conflict.
While I personally find the scenario you describe as troubling (career USN man of course I do) it does not by itself result in a war.
See USS Stark as another example, or USS Samuel B Roberts.
I do agree that point defense cannot be assumed to be perfect.

Our politicians, going back to USS Pueblo at the very least, some of the recon flights over Russian and China in the 1950's that never came back, USS Liberty, or the Beirut Marine Barracks ... have been consistently willing to send our folks into harms way and then flounder about when some of them get shot at, attacked, or in Pubelo's case, boarded/captured.

I don't see that mentality in Washington changing any time soon either.
If a missile gets through that will suck, but it will not necessarily start a major regional war.

In relevant news:
A U.S. military base in Iraq was attacked when Iranian-backed militants launched ballistic missiles and rockets at the Al-Asad Airbase near Baghdad. Most of the missiles were intercepted but some did hit the base, causing mostly minor injuries.
That isn't starting a regional war either.
(Comment on the lazy journo: "near Baghdad" is an odd descriptor. It's about a hundred miles to the west).
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 21:24
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The first step in the Operational Planning Process is selecting the aim. Obviously the aim must be realistic and achievable. So what is the aim of Prosperity Guardian ? If it is make the Red Sea transits safe then I don’t see how fleet units soaking up Houthi missiles is going to achieve that aim. Going after the shooters as has already been shown, is an exercise in whack a mole so there is no chance of a decisive blow.

Iran is continuing to supply the Houthi’s with anti ship munitions, so the threat isn’t going away, therefore I am struggling to see how this operation directly furthers the national security interests of the USA.

Ultimately the US won’t fix the ME, the inhabitants have to. I see this as a way to use a strategic disengagement to start forcing the ME countries to start being part of the solution not just part of the problem.

I get how the above may sound naive, but after 50 years of robust American diplomatic, economic and military engagement, we seem to be in an even worse place, Maybe it is time for a different tack. The beauty of Naval disengagement is there are no boots on the ground, and re-engagement in force is always possible given the self contained and self sustaining nature of a Naval Task Group. In the meantime the Houthi’s don’t have the convent presence of the Great Satan to use to mobilize their base.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 21:46
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US and UK launch fresh strikes on Houthis - BBC News
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 21:47
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
The first step in the Operational Planning Process is selecting the aim. Obviously the aim must be realistic and achievable. So what is the aim of Prosperity Guardian ? If it is make the Red Sea transits safe then I don’t see how fleet units soaking up Houthi missiles is going to achieve that aim. Going after the shooters as has already been shown, is an exercise in whack a mole so there is no chance of a decisive blow.
Go back to the 1980's. For how long was the reflagging of tankers in the Persian Gulf undertaken? Your short attention span is noted.
Iran is continuing to supply the Houthi’s with anti ship munitions, so the threat isn’t going away, therefore I am struggling to see how this operation directly furthers the national security interests of the USA.
To be seen to be doing something is the sort of thing politicians do all of the time. A goodly number of my operational experiences were directly related to that. At the moment, this operation has moved from "presence" to active operations. Not sure how long that will last. (And your point on its limitations is not disagreed).
Ultimately the US won’t fix the ME, the inhabitants have to. I see this as a way to use a strategic disengagement to start forcing the ME countries to start being part of the solution not just part of the problem.
Nothing new under the sun, then. It just happens to be Tuesday.
I get how the above may sound naive, but after 50 years of robust American diplomatic, economic and military engagement, we seem to be in an even worse place
But we are not. The ME is in a different place.
The Abraham accords are (or were) very close to being worked out. 50 years ago that was not the case. Then again, 50 years ago the Islamic Republic if Iran didn't exist.
Fifty years ago, Egypt and Israel were still negotiating the end of the 1973 war. The US (and Israel's) relationships with the largest nation (population wise) in the middle east, Egypt, are both substantially better. Israel has formal relations with Jordan. The state of play among the various entities on the Arabian peninsula have all undergone change. The US has major base in Qatar. That wasn't true 50 years ago either.
Maybe it is time for a different tack.
Nice general "we must do something" complaint.
Your suggestions for the actionable suggestions are doubtless welcome in Foggy Bottom.
Mail it to them. I am sure you can find the street address for the US Department of State easily enough.
The beauty of Naval disengagement is there are no boots on the ground, and re-engagement in force is always possible given the self contained and self sustaining nature of a Naval Task Group.
Do not disagree, in principle.
In the meantime the Houthi’s don’t have the convent presence of the Great Satan to use to mobilize their base.
Sadly, your forgot about the Information War.
Disengagement ~ at this point ~ gives the Houthis some kid of bragging rights. The Propaganda war NEVER ends, and you, sir, are a target, as am I.
You have been hit.
This takes us back to:
Must be seen to be doing something.
This will go on for a while longer.
EDIT: from red dog's post and link:
It added: "Our aim remains to de-escalate tensions and restore stability in the Red Sea, but let us reiterate our warning to Houthi leadership: we will not hesitate to defend lives and the free flow of commerce in one of the world's most critical waterways in the face of continued threats."This is the eighth strike by the US against Houthi targets in Yemen. It is the second joint operation with the UK, after joint strikes were carried out on 11 January.
I remember operation Provide Comfort. It had an aim, and it was sort of fulfilled.
I remember Operation Sharp Guard. It had an aim, to stop the flow of arms into Former Yugoslavia, but was it successful?
Somewhat, from a limited maritime perspective.
I remember Operation Iraqi Freedom. It had a variety of aims, and one of them was achieved.
Saddam was replaced.
Some of the other aims? Not so much.
I remember Operation HOA. (Horn of Africa). (Or JTF HOA as we called it) As far as I know, it is still ongoing, two decades later.

That you believe there to be some simple "solution" is indeed naive. It's a mess, all seven days of the week.
As to a general conflagration, this, my friend, has me worried a bit more.

Two Hezbollah fighters killed by Israeli drone in Lebanon

BEIRUT, Jan 21 (Reuters) - Two Hezbollah fighters were killed on Sunday when an Israeli drone hit their vehicle in southern Lebanon, security sources said.Their ranks were not revealed but a source close to the Iranian-backed group said they were not senior
Hezbollah and Iran have a very close relationship. Israeli/Hezbollah activities escalating is where (in my view) stuff gets a lot worse a lot faster.

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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 22:07
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​​​​EU foreign ministers also agreed on a military operation to ensure the safety of commercial shipping in the Red Sea.

EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Josep Borrell:

​​​​​​​ “The European Union has reached an agreement to launch a joint military operation to ensure the security of commercial shipping in the Red Sea”
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 22:10
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Originally Posted by ORAC
​​​​EU foreign ministers also agreed on a military operation to ensure the safety of commercial shipping in the Red Sea.
ORAC, I am not all up on EU politics, I saw this comment under the twitthing you linked to.
I imagine that the Red Sea military operation was agreed once Albares, Spain’s foreign affairs minister, left the room.
Sánchez is determined to support any terrorist organisation which is backed by Teheran.
What's that all about?
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 22:14
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​​​​​​​French frigate FS Alsace has transited the Suez Canal to join maritime security operations in the Red Sea and will likely replace FS Languedoc.

Alsace is an air-defence variant of the FREMM Frigate with double the number of VLS cells (32) compared to the 16 of the ASW-oriented Languedoc.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 22:16
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Lonewolf

Please explain to this dumb Canuck how the national security interests of the US, today , are demonstrably furthered by Op Prosperity Guardian.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 22:18
  #880 (permalink)  
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What's that all about?
Politics…

https://euobserver.com/world/157937
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