Iran

[DogTailRed2]

America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal?
Then again is anything in this war legal?

[CAEBr]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal?
Then again is anything in this war legal?

DTR2, you beat me to a reply, I was driving and heard the same quote on Radio 5. Perhaps he needs to read up on the Falklands War and what happened to the Belgrano. Just another example that nothing that has happened previously counts unless it was a MAGA event

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal?

1. 1982, HMS Conqueror versus ARA General Belgrano comes to mind.
2. December 9, 1971, the Pakistani submarine PNS Hangor sank the Indian frigate INS Khukri (F149).
(Maybe he meant by a US sub?)

EDIT: I see that CAEBr and I posted at about the same time...

[RAFEngO74to09]

Chairman JCS made the correct statement regarding the first sinking by a USN submarine since WWII.

[RAFEngO74to09]

US DOW Briefing at Pentagon 4 Mar 26 0800 ET

Department of War 🇺🇸 on X: "LIVE: @SecWar and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force Gen. Dan Caine, hold a press briefing at the Pentagon. https://t.co/0NijeaLSOO" / Twitter

[gums]

Salute!

Well, Pontius and others, we now get to see how good the new plane's computed delivery systems work with those rusty old dumb bombs. The last, mostly uncontested air bombing fracas of my generation was Vietnam in the south and most of Laos away from The Trail.

The A-7D and USN A-7 E "scored" CEP by the FAC's and grunts was about 15 meters for the MK series of GP bombs (see various Corona Harvest docs). I would bet we see about the same now, depending on thier release altitudes. Problem is aiming with the human eye. If the "system" and fin assemblies on the bombs have about a 6 mil dispersion,then add that to your Mk 1 eyeball.

Gums sends...

[Biggus]

BBC reporting that HMS Dragon will not sail for the Eastern Mediterranean until "sometime next week"...

Add on a 7 day transit, and that means it won't be on task for another 11+ days.... By which time numerous assets from various other European countries will have been on scene for days.

A case of too little too late.

I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer?

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by Biggus

.......... I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer?

It's all we've done ....... since long before Starmer..........

And genuine apologies to all those Brits currently serving, or who have served, and particularly those who have done so much on active service over the years - it's just my cynicism re those "in charge" and the general trajectory in the UK since 1990 really after having endured many pointless LTC rounds...........

[Ninthace]

Originally Posted by Biggus

BBC reporting that HMS Dragon will not sail for the Eastern Mediterranean until "sometime next week"...

Add on a 7 day transit, and that means it won't be on task for another 11+ days.... By which time numerous assets from various other European countries will have been on scene for days.

A case of too little too late.

I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer?

How essential is it? We have other assets in the neighbourhood.

[ORAC]

How essential is it? We have other assets in the neighbourhood.

Define we……

We, as in the UK, have nothing capable of intercepting an IRBM if they throw one at Akrotiri.

Not sure whether the Cypriot NG BARAK-MX system is the ER version with an IRBM capability.

The French and Greek FDI frigates carry Aster 15/30 and can intercept short and medium range IRBM

So, until Dragon arrives, we will depend on them.

Of course the USS Ford CSG is in the area and could be located to take out any incoming.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Define we……

We, as in the UK, have nothing capable of intercepting an IRBM if they throw one at Akrotiri.

ORAC, I am getting a flashback to some TMD projects we were working on (at a glacial pace) in NATO in the late 90's. The assumed threat for planning purposes was Syria, Iraq and Iran...theater class Ballistic Missiles (TBM) of the time. (Which I suppose are roughly what you are referring to as IRBM?)
Most of the ones from back then have either gotten improved range or have been superseded by more capable ballistic missiles.
In our meetings, any time Cyprus got raised the usual Greek/Turk bun tossing event would occur.
I wonder if NATO has gotten past that in the intervening decades.

EDIT: I did a quick check, looks like a lot of time/effort/money went into that program. The Lisbon Summit seems to have been a major turning point in upgrading the holistic posture.

[petit plateau]

For those with an interest in LNG tanker vessels, and how vulnerable they might be, there are reports that a Russian one is on fire to the east of Malta, with reports of explosions, most curious

https://gcaptain.com/russian-lng-car...craft-circles/

[Lonewolf_50]

From petit plateau's link:

The Arctic Metagaz is among roughly a dozen vessels used to transport sanctioned LNG from Russia’s Arctic LNG 2 facility to buyers at China’s Beihai Terminal. These vessels have drawn increased scrutiny amid Western sanctions targeting Russia’s energy exports.

Ukraine has previously demonstrated an ability to strike Russian naval and logistics assets far beyond the Black Sea. Ukrainian intelligence and special operations units have claimed responsibility for sabotage and explosive attacks against Russian-linked vessels and infrastructure in European waters.

The first confirmed Ukrainian attacks on a vessel in the Mediterranean occurred just over two months ago when the Qendil, an Omani-flagged “shadow fleet” tanker was struck between Crete and Malta.

[dead_pan]

Is there any information circulating on the circumstances of the sinking of the Iranian warship i.e. was it instructed to sail to a particular port & surrender (assuming it was being shadowed by more than the sub)? If not it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel.

[BFSGrad]

Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09

Chairman JCS made the correct statement regarding the first sinking by a USN submarine since WWII.

This is the transcript from the video I watched:

in fact, yesterday, in the Indian Ocean (and we’ll play it on the screen there), an American submarine sunk an Iranian warship that thought it was safe in international waters. Instead it was sunk by a torpedo. Quiet death. The first sinking of an enemy ship by a torpedo since World War Two.

Given Hegseth’s imprecise language that was read from prepared remarks, we are left to decide whether he meant any nation’s torpedo or an American torpedo.

For some additional context, the U.S. has conducted numerous SINKEX operations since WW2, usually sinking old decommissioned warships with submarine-launched torpedos.

[Lonewolf_50]

As I understand the details, that Iranian warship was sunk near Sri Lanka.

By Yousef Saba, Jonathan Saul and Anna Hirtenstein

March 4 (Reuters) - The U.S.–Iran war widened on Wednesday after a U.S. strike hit an Iranian warship off Sri Lanka, deepening a crisis that has paralysed shipping through the Strait of Hormuz for a fifth day and choked off vital Middle East oil and gas flows.
The U.S. submarine strike on the Iranian vessel came as U.S. President Donald Trump pledged to provide insurance and navy escorts to ships exporting oil and gas from the Middle East in a bid to contain soaring energy prices.
{Hormuz Issues}
At least 200 ships, including oil and liquefied natural gas tankers as well as cargo ships, remained at anchor in open waters off the coast of major Gulf producers including Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, according to Reuters estimates based on ship-tracking data from the MarineTraffic platform. The Maltese-flagged container ship Safeen Prestige was also damaged by a projectile as it sailed toward the northern end of the Strait of Hormuz earlier, prompting the crew to abandon ship, shipping sources said.

Qatar will fully shut down gas liquefaction on Wednesday and won't return to normal production and exports for at least a month, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters. Gas giant QatarEnergy declared force majeure on shipments of LNG after attacks on its production facilities.

Iraq cut its oil production as the country ran out of storage, unable to load it in tankers.
Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait were also struggling to load oil but it was not yet clear if they cut output. (More economic details at the spoiler)

Spoiler

 

 

Despite the gridlock, a rare voyage took place on Tuesday when the Suezmax tanker Pola sailed through the Strait of Hormuz to the UAE to load crude, according to industry sources and LSEG ship-tracking data. The Pola had switched off its AIS transponder late on March 2 as it approached the Strait and reappeared the next day off Abu Dhabi.

Oil prices dipped on Wednesday, but were up 12% since the war started on Saturday, as U.S.-Israeli strikes on Iran disrupted Middle East supplies. On Wednesday, Goldman Sachs raised its forecast for Brent crude oil in the second quarter by $10 to $76 per barrel. It also raised its prediction for WTI by $9 to $71 per barrel. The bank said it sees longer-than-expected disruption to exports of oil and gas through the Strait of Hormuz and damage to oil production facilities as risks. It also assumes that low oil flows through Hormuz will lead to large declines in OECD inventories and Middle East production in March.

Some Asian refiners and petrochemicals companies face output cuts because they are unable to get prompt replacement cargoes from their suppliers in the Gulf due to the shipping standstill. India's Mangalore Refinery and Petrochemicals and Petronet LNG both issued force majeure notices due to the disruptions.

Asia sources 60% of its oil from the Middle East, leaving the region vulnerable to the disruptions. Refiners in Indonesia and Japan are sourcing more oil from the U.S. to replace the shortfall. India will consider buying more from Russia, sources at two companies have said. Saudi Aramco's largest domestic refinery and key crude export terminal Ras Tanura was struck on Wednesday, four sources said.

Also, from an AP story: Sri Lankan Navy recovered 87 bodies and 32 survivors from the Iranian naval vessel.

Sri Lanka’s Foreign Minister Vijitha Herath told Parliament that its navy received information that the IRIS Dena, with 180 people on board, was in distress and sinking. The island nation sent ships and planes on a rescue mission, he said. Navy spokesman Commander Buddhika Sampath said by the time navy ships reached the location, there was no sign of the ship in distress and “there were only some oil patches and life rafts. We found people floating on the water.”

Nice job Sri Lankan Navy.

Originally Posted by dead_pan

If not it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel.

Did that stop Conqueror?

[DogTailRed2]

Originally Posted by dead_pan

"it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel."

And risk the sub and it's crew? I'm all for firing first.
Interestingly the ship was hit at the stern. Acoustic torp hit the screws perhaps?
Hegseth: U.S. sank Iranian ship with a torpedo

[PEI_3721]

Originally Posted by BFSGrad

Given Hegseth’s imprecise language that was read from prepared remarks, we are left to decide whether he meant any nation’s torpedo or an American torpedo.

"To effectively communicate we must realise that we are all different in the way we perceive the world and use this understanding as a guide to our communications with others". Tony Robbins

MAGA is the antithesis of this - the single, mind blocking focus on self.

"It is not what you think, it is how you think." Philip Tetlock
nn

[Geriaviator]

Did Iran warn before firing missiles at its friendly neighbours?

[DogTailRed2]

While all this is ongoing one has to wonder what is happening in Iran now the head has been cut off.