No aerobatics by Red Arrows at Farnborough!
Originally Posted by langleybaston
May we take it that the restrictions will apply to ALL aircraft at Farnboro, not only RAF?
The restrictions are on the airfield. It's up to each pilot/organisation to decide how they adhere to the restrictions.
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I too waited at Woodford and saw distant F1-11 attacking Ringway 
I also saw an F15 Eagle land at Wyton and ask Alconbury which way they wanted him to turn off the runway.
A bit of thread drift I know; but Farnborough is designed to showcase the UK Aviation Industry. ....and as we do not have a UK Aviation industry anymore I suggest that Dubai and Paris have it and Farnborough should retire with grace.
With Duxford under the CAA spotlight because of an adjacent motorway, I foresee a time when Fairford - Shuttleworth and Scampton are the only airshows of any significance.
I also saw an F15 Eagle land at Wyton and ask Alconbury which way they wanted him to turn off the runway.
A bit of thread drift I know; but Farnborough is designed to showcase the UK Aviation Industry. ....and as we do not have a UK Aviation industry anymore I suggest that Dubai and Paris have it and Farnborough should retire with grace.
With Duxford under the CAA spotlight because of an adjacent motorway, I foresee a time when Fairford - Shuttleworth and Scampton are the only airshows of any significance.
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I can think of a couple of airfields that have the space and have a decent runway length, Prestwick and Manston. I think Farnborough has changed for a long time to come.
I can only see pressure mounting to host elsewhere; somewhere more open/rural compared to Camberley and its surrounds.
Perhaps Fairford could become a single, 2-week event with a week and a half devoted to Business/Commercial, then the usual long weekend for RIAT.
Farnborough hasn't been the same since the RAF left....
Back in the '80s, you could turn up at RAF Farnborough and park at the Officers' Mess. Then have a coffee in the ante room before wandering down through the private RAF access to the showground. A quick gander around various stands in the trade area, then back up to the OM enclosure to watch the flying. Tea and stickies in the marquee, then back to the car and away whilst the genpub was battling it out to escape.
Last time I went it, it was so wet that I was advised not to drive as the car parks were like swamps. So a train to Reading, thence another to North Camp and finally a bus to the show. Treated like a potential terrorist by some arse-fondling failed wheelclamper to get in, but then some excellent hosting thanks to the company who'd invited me.
The weather was so awful that there wasn't much flying, so after taking my leave, I went for a quick look around the almost totally deserted trade area, then down to see a chum at the A400M. Very interesting look around the aircraft, but I had to leave to catch my train....
At the bus stop there was NO shelter AT ALL. It poured, so I got totally drenched. As I also did at North Camp. Reading station was chaotic as it was being rebuilt, the train from London was late and overcrowded. I was VERY glad to escape at Didcot to drive home.
Attending Farnborough even on a trade day as I did, is not for the faint-hearted these days. The flying displays are pretty so-so, you end up walking MILES and queuing for ages - as you do if you've come by car.
Unless you're being hosted, there are better ways to spend the day - such as watching DVDs of the 'old' SBAC days....
Back in the '80s, you could turn up at RAF Farnborough and park at the Officers' Mess. Then have a coffee in the ante room before wandering down through the private RAF access to the showground. A quick gander around various stands in the trade area, then back up to the OM enclosure to watch the flying. Tea and stickies in the marquee, then back to the car and away whilst the genpub was battling it out to escape.
Last time I went it, it was so wet that I was advised not to drive as the car parks were like swamps. So a train to Reading, thence another to North Camp and finally a bus to the show. Treated like a potential terrorist by some arse-fondling failed wheelclamper to get in, but then some excellent hosting thanks to the company who'd invited me.
The weather was so awful that there wasn't much flying, so after taking my leave, I went for a quick look around the almost totally deserted trade area, then down to see a chum at the A400M. Very interesting look around the aircraft, but I had to leave to catch my train....
At the bus stop there was NO shelter AT ALL. It poured, so I got totally drenched. As I also did at North Camp. Reading station was chaotic as it was being rebuilt, the train from London was late and overcrowded. I was VERY glad to escape at Didcot to drive home.
Attending Farnborough even on a trade day as I did, is not for the faint-hearted these days. The flying displays are pretty so-so, you end up walking MILES and queuing for ages - as you do if you've come by car.
Unless you're being hosted, there are better ways to spend the day - such as watching DVDs of the 'old' SBAC days....
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My recollections of SBAC were entirely focussed on being hosted in Trade Tents and horrendous hangovers.
On our Staff College visit, one of our number was delivered back to the Officers Mess in some sort of wheelbarrow after excessive hospitality.
On our Staff College visit, one of our number was delivered back to the Officers Mess in some sort of wheelbarrow after excessive hospitality.
This year, if you turn up on the day and buy your ticket at the gate, I believe it will cost you £48 on the Saturday or Sunday. Advance tickets are currently on sale for £40 per day. Since 2014 the trade halls are closed down at the weekend so the public now do not get access to the various exhibits on the stands. Admittedly, a lot of companies did abandon their posts at the weekend before 2014 but there was still sufficient to consume a couple of hours especially if there was inclement weather. Now with the probability of a reduced number of aircraft displaying and displays featuring restricted aerobatic manoeuvres within a smaller display area, I fear this will have a large impact on the income stream for the ADS Group. Farnborough International represents the majority of ADS Group's revenue that keeps the wheels turning until the next show in 2 years time. There has been significant investment in the trade halls and permanent chalets recently so there must be some very worried people at ADS. With Paris, Dubai, Singapore and Avalon there is plenty of competition for exhibitors' investment dollars to display their new products and develop current and new business relationships. Worrying times for Farnborough and it's continuation as the prime global aerospace show every 2 years. I don't think it's too dramatic to suggest that ADS need to decide to move it or risk losing it.
PDR
Why the surprise?
There is, after all, a ban on aerobatics by "vintage jets". Time for the Reds to get some new ones?
Perhaps the organisers could rescue our sorry nation's reputation from ignominy by putting on a display by a formation Spitfires, ie very much older and far less reliable aircraft with dodgy old piston engines that are apparently so much safer than jets that they can fly aerobatics at airshows willy-nilly entirely immune to third party damage.
Or perhaps someone could sack the witless imbeciles in the CAA who came up with this irrational "vintage jets" idiocy and also the spineless, brain-dead crustacea in the fuggen RAF that have followed the Campaign Against Aviation's craven lead.
Or, as suggested earlier, just cancel Farnborough and all other airshows and retreat into a cocoon of cotton wool and stay there until we all suffocate on the flatulence of the NIMBYS and the health and safety Nazis. It makes me want to puke.
Rant over...
FOR SHAME!
There is, after all, a ban on aerobatics by "vintage jets". Time for the Reds to get some new ones?
Perhaps the organisers could rescue our sorry nation's reputation from ignominy by putting on a display by a formation Spitfires, ie very much older and far less reliable aircraft with dodgy old piston engines that are apparently so much safer than jets that they can fly aerobatics at airshows willy-nilly entirely immune to third party damage.
Or perhaps someone could sack the witless imbeciles in the CAA who came up with this irrational "vintage jets" idiocy and also the spineless, brain-dead crustacea in the fuggen RAF that have followed the Campaign Against Aviation's craven lead.
Or, as suggested earlier, just cancel Farnborough and all other airshows and retreat into a cocoon of cotton wool and stay there until we all suffocate on the flatulence of the NIMBYS and the health and safety Nazis. It makes me want to puke.
Rant over...
FOR SHAME!
Last edited by Wageslave; 15th Jun 2016 at 09:10.
Tiger Mate,
You spout drivel. Far from not having an aerospace industry in the UK any more we in fact have the largest in the world after the USA.
Watch the Airbus A380 at Farnborough, 60% of it UK built.
Watch an Airbus A320 at any airport you care to with it's UK designed and built wings, engines, undercarriage, hydraulic system, fuel system, cockpit transparencies and seats. And Airbus build more of them each and every month than the entire VC10 production run.
No uk industry my arse!
You spout drivel. Far from not having an aerospace industry in the UK any more we in fact have the largest in the world after the USA.
Watch the Airbus A380 at Farnborough, 60% of it UK built.
Watch an Airbus A320 at any airport you care to with it's UK designed and built wings, engines, undercarriage, hydraulic system, fuel system, cockpit transparencies and seats. And Airbus build more of them each and every month than the entire VC10 production run.
No uk industry my arse!
Watch an Airbus A320 at any airport you care to with it's UK designed and built wings, engines, undercarriage, hydraulic system, fuel system, cockpit transparencies and seats.
Messier Bugatti Dowty (undercarriage) British, are they? OK, they're big in Gloucester but by no means all British or anywhere close to it.
UK has a larger aerospace industry than France/Germany Airbus? Does it?
Last edited by Wageslave; 15th Jun 2016 at 09:12.
Really?
No Arrows aeros at Farnborough?
Surely this is a wind-up.
Yes - it's probably a response to safety concerns/Shoreham etc but how dreadfully sad.
What have we come to?
Memories of seeing the Reds there - also watching the Harrier bow to the crowd - and then being in the Eurofighter chalet with a few VSOs when the news of Concorde crashing in Paris came through.
Is the risk to the public posed by a team of highly trained professionals really that significant?
No Arrows aeros at Farnborough?
Surely this is a wind-up.
Yes - it's probably a response to safety concerns/Shoreham etc but how dreadfully sad.
What have we come to?
Memories of seeing the Reds there - also watching the Harrier bow to the crowd - and then being in the Eurofighter chalet with a few VSOs when the news of Concorde crashing in Paris came through.
Is the risk to the public posed by a team of highly trained professionals really that significant?
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I know. Sad isn't it?
Don't worry too much, though - entertainment is still on the programme.
Y'see, Tracey Wotsaname is turning up.
Once the helicopters are well out of the way, you could see some spectacular acrobatics on the in-field grass.
Don't worry too much, though - entertainment is still on the programme.
Y'see, Tracey Wotsaname is turning up.
Once the helicopters are well out of the way, you could see some spectacular acrobatics on the in-field grass.
Hang on a minute, people driving to Farnborough will endanger the lives of other people who are not going. Obviously it's just too risky and immoral to have them driving there and endangering people who have no interest in the airshow.
Cancel the whole thing, just to be on the safe side.
Now this may seem like a flippant post, but it is true that those driving there will be putting far more families and children at risk on the way than a Red Arrows display would. How many people died on the roads today through no fault of their own, killed by someone else making a journey to something that they had no interest in.
<edit>
I googled it, 5 a day, 5 people die every day on the roads in the UK. Why the **** are we not shutting the roads, 5 yesterday, 5 today, 5 tomorrow.. 35 in 1 week. Dead. Yet the roads stay open.
Cancel the whole thing, just to be on the safe side.
Now this may seem like a flippant post, but it is true that those driving there will be putting far more families and children at risk on the way than a Red Arrows display would. How many people died on the roads today through no fault of their own, killed by someone else making a journey to something that they had no interest in.
<edit>
I googled it, 5 a day, 5 people die every day on the roads in the UK. Why the **** are we not shutting the roads, 5 yesterday, 5 today, 5 tomorrow.. 35 in 1 week. Dead. Yet the roads stay open.
Last edited by kghjfg; 15th Jun 2016 at 01:51. Reason: Addition
"...I'm sorry Chuck, you can't climb in that thing; you've got two broken ribs..."
"...Neil, it looks like a lash-up between a chemical processing plant and a light plane. We've decided not to launch, especially after that trick you pulled with the LLTV..."
"...10 knots above the stall Kelly? For most of the mission?!! No way!"
Great aviation health and safety conversations from the past that thankfully did not happen.
Sheesh...
"...Neil, it looks like a lash-up between a chemical processing plant and a light plane. We've decided not to launch, especially after that trick you pulled with the LLTV..."
"...10 knots above the stall Kelly? For most of the mission?!! No way!"
Great aviation health and safety conversations from the past that thankfully did not happen.
Sheesh...
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Just a correction. The aircraft that dusted up Cambridge instead of Duxford was NOT an F.111, but an F.4 Phantom. I know, 'cos I was there, as Max Boyce used to say. The report in the safety section of 'Pilot' magazine a couple of months later made interesting reading!.
I was also at Duxford one morning when a BAE 146 arrived on short finals for 240. then, at two miles, suddenly diverted to Cambridge, where he was supposed to be going in the first place!!!.
I was also at Duxford one morning when a BAE 146 arrived on short finals for 240. then, at two miles, suddenly diverted to Cambridge, where he was supposed to be going in the first place!!!.
"Wilbur, remember! Two feet and not an inch more! You haven't done Working at Heights part 2 yet!"
"Willy, those A Stoff and T Stoff pipes, did you check the fitters' Corgi certificates?"
"Ach! So!, I'll sign it off as safe then".
"No Leonardo, you cannotta testa you whaddyacallit? Parrachutta! You needa design something to stoppa you fall if ee notta worka!"
"Igor, it is not going to run until you comply with the rotating discs regulations Eu 2014 245/4.6-7. Oh! Get yourself a proper bonedome too"
"But Baron, red is such an inflammatory colour, it might bring out aggressive tendencies in some of them. Wouldn't a nice magnolia be more appropriate?"
"Ray, if its designed to drop things people are going to get hurt. You'll just have to fit some kind of catchment system to stop them reaching the ground and I don't care what bloody Harris says!"
"Oi! You the skipper of that funny looking thing? Oo-ooh! "The Sunderland", is it? I don't care wot it's bloody name is sonny, it don't move in my 'arbour 'til its fitted wiv proper lifeboats on proper davits"
"Monsieur Montgolfier, Non! Impossible! You cannot make a fire of straw under eet, thees ees a smoke free zone"
"Winkle, you don't have a type rating! You are not flying it!!"
"Airshow? Airshow! Are you mad??? That might involve some of those things actually flying, one might even pass over a nursery school or a market or a convent or - God! - a road!!! Out of the question. Send them all to Hendon. By barge, roads are too dangerous"
Supersonic transport was not a success as the bang sometimes made nervous people jump.
Oh...Oops! That actually happened, didn't it?
But that was the past. This could well be the future;
"I thought three months was a bit ambitious for your holiday in Ibiza. It takes six weeks just to reach Marseilles by ox cart."
"Nah, couldn't do that. Wife's afraid of ox carts. Had to go by foot."
"Willy, those A Stoff and T Stoff pipes, did you check the fitters' Corgi certificates?"
"Ach! So!, I'll sign it off as safe then".
"No Leonardo, you cannotta testa you whaddyacallit? Parrachutta! You needa design something to stoppa you fall if ee notta worka!"
"Igor, it is not going to run until you comply with the rotating discs regulations Eu 2014 245/4.6-7. Oh! Get yourself a proper bonedome too"
"But Baron, red is such an inflammatory colour, it might bring out aggressive tendencies in some of them. Wouldn't a nice magnolia be more appropriate?"
"Ray, if its designed to drop things people are going to get hurt. You'll just have to fit some kind of catchment system to stop them reaching the ground and I don't care what bloody Harris says!"
"Oi! You the skipper of that funny looking thing? Oo-ooh! "The Sunderland", is it? I don't care wot it's bloody name is sonny, it don't move in my 'arbour 'til its fitted wiv proper lifeboats on proper davits"
"Monsieur Montgolfier, Non! Impossible! You cannot make a fire of straw under eet, thees ees a smoke free zone"
"Winkle, you don't have a type rating! You are not flying it!!"
"Airshow? Airshow! Are you mad??? That might involve some of those things actually flying, one might even pass over a nursery school or a market or a convent or - God! - a road!!! Out of the question. Send them all to Hendon. By barge, roads are too dangerous"
Supersonic transport was not a success as the bang sometimes made nervous people jump.
Oh...Oops! That actually happened, didn't it?
But that was the past. This could well be the future;
"I thought three months was a bit ambitious for your holiday in Ibiza. It takes six weeks just to reach Marseilles by ox cart."
"Nah, couldn't do that. Wife's afraid of ox carts. Had to go by foot."
Last edited by Wageslave; 15th Jun 2016 at 10:03.