Answer yes or no to the RAF bombing Syria this coming week.
Originally Posted by papa-j
See the Jet Blast forum
I love the way that a free vote in the House of Commons and the expansion of a military air operation can so quickly turn into the UK's electoral voting system. Clearly someone's humin rites are being trampled on here. I'm only surprised we haven't heard about it being the immigrants' fault yet.
Democracy has now been served and it's down to the crews in theatre to their work in degrading a barbaric horde. Good hunting, good luck and come home safely.
Yes, 400 attacks out of 1,600 missions with no reported collateral is correct - only attacking valid, safe targets. Some were recce missions.
When you are one of the few nations that can conduct effective reconnaissance your task requests are biased towards this.
Whilst you may not expend weapons yourself your effectiveness is reflected in the ordinance expended by coalition partners that may only provide attack assets. In equal regard your efforts may prevent ordinance being dropped on the wrong people.
Counting bombs delivered as a measure of effect is a very poor metric.
Whilst you may not expend weapons yourself your effectiveness is reflected in the ordinance expended by coalition partners that may only provide attack assets. In equal regard your efforts may prevent ordinance being dropped on the wrong people.
Counting bombs delivered as a measure of effect is a very poor metric.
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For those who did not hear it all last night.....
Hilary Benn speech in full: 'We must now confront this evil' ? video | Politics | The Guardian
Hilary Benn speech in full: 'We must now confront this evil' ? video | Politics | The Guardian
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Prior to the Parliamentary vote, I expect it would have been difficult for the RAF to allow the use of Akrotiri for other nations to launch operations against Syria.
Now the vote has been taken and the RAF will have 16x FJ there, I wonder if other nations may request/be invited to use Akrotiri. It seems ideally situated, and more easily defended than bases in neighboring countries to Syria.
It's many years since I went to AKT, but from what I recall, it's on a bit of a peninsula and the actual airfield is miles past the gate.
Now the vote has been taken and the RAF will have 16x FJ there, I wonder if other nations may request/be invited to use Akrotiri. It seems ideally situated, and more easily defended than bases in neighboring countries to Syria.
It's many years since I went to AKT, but from what I recall, it's on a bit of a peninsula and the actual airfield is miles past the gate.
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A few (too) many years since I was in AKT also, but it's a very large base (it was known within the service during it's heyday as "The Big A") and it's peninsula location does afford a certain covert concealment - at least by land.
Post the Paris attacks, it was offered to the French as a bolthole for their carrier-borne ops.
I see the Germans are also imminently voting whether or not to join the operation, with Tornado's (I suspect to do recon. rather than to bomb), so they made need somewhere to put them?
Post the Paris attacks, it was offered to the French as a bolthole for their carrier-borne ops.
I see the Germans are also imminently voting whether or not to join the operation, with Tornado's (I suspect to do recon. rather than to bomb), so they made need somewhere to put them?
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A common misconception : the present government was voted for by a minority of the electorate ( PR would address this).
Excluding the membership of the electorate who, for various reasons, could not be bothered to participate in our democracy (and therefore don't count), the May 2015 vote was slightly over 50% right of centre.
Meaning that although it is not perfect PR, we got what we voted for with FPTP: a sensible, generally right of centre government, compared to the lunacy of Milibland/Corbychev!
That's the system we have and it's the worst in the world...apart from all the others.
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BBC news just reported the MOD reporting two Tornados have taken off from Cyprus on a mission..... Call me old fashioned but WTF are the MOD announcing missions while they are taking place and are in theater.
Remember that the primary objective is to stand 'side-by-side with our allies'.
Degrading ISIL is secondary to that.
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PS. I also believe there is a special gate for the 'no' voters in the Tower of London and it begins with a 'T'...
A few (too) many years since I was in AKT also, but it's a very large base (it was known within the service during it's heyday as "The Big A") and it's peninsula location does afford a certain covert concealment - at least by land
Amazingly there were only 2 very minor injuries.
More competent terrorists could have caused carnage but I am sure the Station is a bit more secure now.
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NEAF
IIRC AKT was HQ NEAF. Should be able to take a few more aircraft wouldn't you say? And yes to continuing to attack ISIS/ISIL/DAESH wherever required (Wasn't Tengah HQ FEAF?, all we have now is UKAF)
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"BBC news just reported the MOD reporting two Tornados have taken off from Cyprus on a mission..... Call me old fashioned but WTF are the MOD announcing missions while they are taking place and are in theatre".
Back in the days of GW1, the NATO AWACS was patrolling the border of Turkey. Not being party to operations, they did not have an ATO, but never mind, as the BBC World Service would announce what was getting airborne and the tracks could be identified from there. However, this is not as bad as operations over Kosovo where Italian ATC would not allow allied aircraft to get airborne from the Italian bases without an ATC slot. Needless to say, all of the slots were then sent up the chain to Belgrade ATC iaw common peacetime procedure.
Back in the days of GW1, the NATO AWACS was patrolling the border of Turkey. Not being party to operations, they did not have an ATO, but never mind, as the BBC World Service would announce what was getting airborne and the tracks could be identified from there. However, this is not as bad as operations over Kosovo where Italian ATC would not allow allied aircraft to get airborne from the Italian bases without an ATC slot. Needless to say, all of the slots were then sent up the chain to Belgrade ATC iaw common peacetime procedure.
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Just for the record, for those looking at stats of bombing sorties/recce sorties etc, I'd like to point out that the GR4 carrying the RAPTOR reconnaissance pod can carry, at the same time, 2 x Paveway IV bombs and a loaded 27mm Mauser cannon.
Armed recce.....the way to go!
Armed recce.....the way to go!
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I see some much-heralded Brimstone on the closest Tonka there aswell :-)
Must admit I had forgotten that incident (it was a long time ago), which is remiss of me as I was there for a short visit not long after. I bet that was more exciting than supervising jankers for the 100 Sqn groundcrew that were p!ssed-up again!
Err - I was orderly officer there in 1986 when a co-ordinated terrorist attack targeted the base in retaliation for assistance to the US F111 sorties. They drove up Ladies Mile to the fence and lobbed 3 RPGs onto the beach (crowded on a Sunday afternoon) and emptied a full mag of AK47 rounds into the car park. The other team had a mortar and walked several rounds across the airfield, fortunately missing anything important.
Amazingly there were only 2 very minor injuries.
Amazingly there were only 2 very minor injuries.
ACW342,
Episkopi was HQ NEAF, not Akrotiri. It was, and is, a huge airfield though, and had acres and acres of new ramp space laid for USAF KC-135's in GW1.
Changi was HQ FEAF, not Tengah.
Yep, all gone now. All those pesky foreigners wanting their own countries back eh?
Episkopi was HQ NEAF, not Akrotiri. It was, and is, a huge airfield though, and had acres and acres of new ramp space laid for USAF KC-135's in GW1.
Changi was HQ FEAF, not Tengah.
Yep, all gone now. All those pesky foreigners wanting their own countries back eh?
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I'm not interested in the political side of this debate, I'm just dropping by to wish the crews and the team of experts who support the flying and maintain the equipment, Godspeed and good luck for this extended campaign in Syria. I await your safe return home! I'm proud of you all.
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Just some observations
Serious bit 1st - Good result for the PM last night...
Put Britain back on the map and showed that he did mean what he said following Paris. Perhaps most satisfying for the Conservatives is the fact that it showed the Labour Party in complete internal combustion, something that will take the Labour Party quite some time to recover from.
Less serious bit - I wonder how long it will be before the 'war experts' come out of the woodwork to lend some 'credibility' to news reports. How long before Col Bob (the people's soldier) is asked for his 'expert' opinion?
Completely flippant bit - Finally, if I had the time (and wasn't wasting it on posts in internet forums
) I would put together a graphic of a Tornado with a made-up weapons payload, such as an Ion [email protected] or something, and see how long it took to get used by some journalist in a proper news rag.
Put Britain back on the map and showed that he did mean what he said following Paris. Perhaps most satisfying for the Conservatives is the fact that it showed the Labour Party in complete internal combustion, something that will take the Labour Party quite some time to recover from.
Less serious bit - I wonder how long it will be before the 'war experts' come out of the woodwork to lend some 'credibility' to news reports. How long before Col Bob (the people's soldier) is asked for his 'expert' opinion?
Completely flippant bit - Finally, if I had the time (and wasn't wasting it on posts in internet forums
) I would put together a graphic of a Tornado with a made-up weapons payload, such as an Ion [email protected] or something, and see how long it took to get used by some journalist in a proper news rag.
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You might be waiting a long time JSF.
This will probably take years to conclude, not that it will. All the other wars are pretty well established now.. (Ukraine, Iraq, now the Yemen and certainly Syria (4 years is it now?)....also Libya of course, that's unfinished..Beirut (massive bomb went off recently but coming on 40 years a place I would have loved to have gone to in its heyday), whilst Egypt is a bit of a slow burner but they had Sharm al Sheik or wherever it is.., Iran possibly one for the future....Swat valley, Pakistan v India....Afghanistan of course unfinished ..Turkey and Russia just seemingly really starting. Cameron must have felt left out of it. Israel/Palestine. Gaza. Kurdistan.
I've lost track -think that's it for now (for that region alone).
France. Belgium. Germany. Back in region Tunisia......for terror.
We'll cop it in Blighty eventually, only a matter of catching up with all the above really. See who crows then? Do I feel sour? You bet.
But democracy was served I suppose - we have what we have and I accept it.
Some good answers on here- some good questions too. Time and history will judge the day.
My MP voted for the war incidentally. She hasn't put a peep about it on her website, I will ask her eventually.
I would ask the MODs to lock the thread now. Goodnight.
This will probably take years to conclude, not that it will. All the other wars are pretty well established now.. (Ukraine, Iraq, now the Yemen and certainly Syria (4 years is it now?)....also Libya of course, that's unfinished..Beirut (massive bomb went off recently but coming on 40 years a place I would have loved to have gone to in its heyday), whilst Egypt is a bit of a slow burner but they had Sharm al Sheik or wherever it is.., Iran possibly one for the future....Swat valley, Pakistan v India....Afghanistan of course unfinished ..Turkey and Russia just seemingly really starting. Cameron must have felt left out of it. Israel/Palestine. Gaza. Kurdistan.
I've lost track -think that's it for now (for that region alone).
France. Belgium. Germany. Back in region Tunisia......for terror.
We'll cop it in Blighty eventually, only a matter of catching up with all the above really. See who crows then? Do I feel sour? You bet.
But democracy was served I suppose - we have what we have and I accept it.
Some good answers on here- some good questions too. Time and history will judge the day.
My MP voted for the war incidentally. She hasn't put a peep about it on her website, I will ask her eventually.
I would ask the MODs to lock the thread now. Goodnight.
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Originally Posted by thunderbird7
No! Unless there is a coherent plan for what happens next.
Have we learnt NOTHING from the past 20 years?
Have we learnt NOTHING from the past 20 years?
ISIS/ISIL cannot be compared to any previous terrorist threat the world has seen in history. I have heard it said that negotiations worked in the case of PIRA, we should try that. No possible comparison. The average ASU member back in the day would want to return to his family at the end of the (literal) day and maybe have a pint. Say no more.
It took place with the Taliban from what I understand. The Taliban did not want to take the issue to our country or Europe, they wanted to desk with us on their own turf.
ISIS/ISIL has to be destroyed totally. It is an immense task and I hate to think how long it will take - I genuinely fear for my children's generation as they become adults.
I haven't reviewed what I have typed as it is written from the heart.
'They' are coming to get us and need to be met with force. If not, the future is very bleak. Very.
Regards,
TN.
