Veterans planning to leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote?

[glad rag]

Originally Posted by McGoonagall

Late to this but i am a veteran living in Scotland and recently medically retired early from the railway. I have always, despite working in London, spent as much as I could on local services and local shops to support the local community. That community is now split along the Yes/No debate. Friends and family are being divided and there has been vandalism of cars and properties that display favours for both sides. There has also been an increase in casual violence. Salmond, if he gets his way, will inherit a divided nation. Divisions that will take generations to heal, if ever.

This has pissed me off so much I am now in Spain in the process of buying a business and re-locating here with my family. So, the community will lose a net contributor. No big deal if it is just one but many in the area that work over the border are seriously considering moving into England for peace of mind over taxation, pensions, currency etc.

A united independent nation Alec? You are having a bubble.

Indeed.

I wouldn't actually mind the Yes campaign, but it is so addled with bluff and mendacity that no clear thinking person would actually accept their "arguments" but we live in the age of social media where any rationality stops at the front of the flatscreen.

[longer ron]

Salmond, if he gets his way, will inherit a divided nation. Divisions that will take generations to heal, if ever.

Indeed - the divisiveness may well be a huge problem for Scotland whichever way the vote goes !

Whatever my feelings about scottish independence - I could never vote for a dipstick like Salmon d

Al R summed it up extremely well -

I suppose, the reality is, if you want independence in Scotland, don't vote for it because some toe rag legislator who wasn't good enough to get a proper job tells you it's a good idea.

[melmothtw]

I could never vote for a dipstick like Salmon

You're confusing a vote for independence with a vote for the SNP/Salmond. Interestingly, you would likely find that the SNP/Salmond vote would go down in post-independence elections as their raison d'etre had disappeared.

[longer ron]

I am not confusing anything young man ; )

As I said - Al R summed it up extremely well.

You cannot separate Salmon d from the vote because he is running the campaign and he is the 'gentleman' with no answers to all the really important questions ; )

[melmothtw]

Well, unfortunately for the Better Together campaign thousands of voters are able to separate Salmond from the vote because there are scores of non-SNP voters who are saying they will vote Yes,....young man.

[Ogre]

I've not been keeping up with the propaganda coming from either side, but from what I've seen on farious social media links from friends it seems to be SNP versus the rest. Scottish labour (which you would assume would be keen to promote their own cause) seem to be playing catch up and the Tories are automatically "the enemy".

Friends who are "Yes" voters don't like me using the term "propaganda", they are all fervent in their beliefs and very vocal at anyone raising points which contradict their opinions. But as others have said, the amount of anti-english sentiment which has been used in the campaign is staggering. If you believed half of what was written you would believe the English ate Scottish babies and lived in the lap of luxury and through the cumbs over the border.

And don't get me started on the paradise that Scotland will become because of the oil revenue.....

[Biggus]

melmothw,

You are of course correct, however, that is a distinction that I would suspect that a large majority of potential "yes" voters haven't made.

Of course it also means that all the comments/promises/commitments being made by the SNP could well not occur, and that the 600 odd page SNP document on a future Scotland is potentially a worthless piece of paper, nothing more than a manifesto for a potential future government, none of which may come to pass, and that the future of veterans pensions (despite perthsaints assurances otherwise) in an independent Scotland is unknown...


Which brings me back to where this thread started.

[melmothtw]

they are all fervent in their beliefs and very vocal at anyone raising points which contradict their opinions.

To be fair Ogre, that accusation can be just as easily leveled at those supporting the No campaign, as evidenced by just a cursory read of the majority of posts in this thread and the many others on the subject.

For what it's worth, I'm not Scottish, do not live in Scotland, and have no particular desire to see the UK broken up. If the Scots do vote Yes though, I will wish them the best, in all of our interests.

[longer ron]

Well, unfortunately for the Better Together campaign thousands of voters are able to separate Salmond from the vote because there are scores of non-SNP voters who are saying they will vote Yes,....young man.

Politicians of all parties rely on naivety and gullibility of the voters LOL

My 61 years in NSGB have left me a tad cynical about politics

I think salmon ds legacy to scotland is (unfortunately) going to be a very divided country - that has already happened - but could get much worse after the vote

[melmothtw]

That's the nature of democracy longer ron. I can think of few political events more divisive than a US presidential campaign, but few would argue that's a reason not to hold them.

And don't think the promised EU referendum won't be divisive either, so maybe we shouldn't hold it?

[McGoonagall]

Which brings me back to where this thread started.

I asked a SNP MSP (on the street) about pensions and taxation if I worked in England and lived in Scotland. Also, would I be able to access my Scottish GP if my taxes went to Westminster. Also about double taxation (which I had to explain to her). The only answer I got was that it would be decided after the referendum. She was either totally ignorant of the manifesto or she merely wanted to carry on playing the populist 'Braveheart' approach to her campaigning.

[longer ron]

And don't think the promised EU referendum won't be divisive either, so maybe we shouldn't hold it?

I doubt very much we will get a referendum but it would not be as divisive as the scottish vote.
There are many people already leaving scotland ahead of the vote because they are fed up with the outbreak of 'nationalism' and racism etc.
As I said previously - I have spoken to many working Scots and have not heard anybody support the split - not one !

[Biggus]

melmothw,

You say you are not Scottish, nor do you live in Scotland, so I can only assume (quite possibly incorrectly) that this subject is of passing academic or social interest to you, along with other national and world events. You certainly seem very vocal on the matter for someone not directly involved.

However, there are people posting on this thread who are currently living through this situation in Scotland, experiencing increasing social unrest, intimidation and discrimination on a daily basis. Maybe you know people who would consider selling their house, possibly at a loss, giving up their jobs, changing their children to a different education system by moving to a different country, all on a whim, or a fit of pique because they lost a vote or don't like a political leader - I don't. The people I know who would consider such actions would only do so after considerable thought, and only if they felt deep genuine concerns over the future for themselves and their loved ones.

[Hangarshuffle]

Hang on to your Tam O Shanters or Bowler Hats.

Because it will all become very acrimonious very shortly, like many divorces do. Leaving both sides hating the other.
To me, having been in both countries over August after decentish periods abroad, its very obvious (to see the opening and widening divisions on the islands that are Britain) and this will only continue after the poll (which will be won by the "yes" vote, clear as day).
This is going to launch a real period of soul searching and change within England. And who knows what the remainder of "Britain" will do?
You could aim the barrel of the gun right at the heart of the Conservative Party for this, IMHO. This has been coming for 35 years.
Federalism could and I think now, will end up being the way ahead for the remainder of Britain, consisting of Wales, Northern Ireland (almost impossible to fathom, for me, that one) and probably the larger area of the Midlands, the North of England ( basically a crescent shape Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield Leeds to Newcastle (like the rail and communication plan that has been so mooted recently and now we see why), plus London (practically a separate country in itself now anyway (like Singapore?), plus "the South East"(simply now a vassal to London) and finally plus good old horrible weirdo Cornwall.
Its a disaster and its coming.
Wonder if Cameron thinks it was a good idea to spend most of August chillaxing on holiday now?
And someone please wake up and tell the Queen. Her family will be out on their ear after this as well, mark my words.
Its a disaster. 300 years of up and down and it ends shortly, thus, under these dim twerps.
But nothing I can do anyway, nor you.Rant over and going back to work.
p.s. put your money into the Euro or Dollar.

[melmothtw]

melmothw,

You say you are not Scottish, nor do you live in Scotland, so I can only assume (quite possibly incorrectly) that this subject is of passing academic or social interest to you, along with other national and world events.

As a UK citizen who will undoubtedly be affected by the result of the referendum, yes or no, I can assure you Biggus that the subject is as relevant and as of much interest to me as it is to everyone else posting here.

along with other national and world events.

Not sure what you mean by this.

[clunckdriver]

I reapeat the gist of my previous post, as a Canadian who has been living with this this stupidity, and live with it on a daily basis, {forced to move, victimised by Surete du Quebec if one click over the speed limit, unable to put my children in French school in Quebec, the list goes on} We now reside in Ontario, in a "border town" where eighty percent of the patients in our local hospital are from across the border as very little of the services, be it health or whatever, still function "next door", we were also forced to move our aviation and manufactering companies due to endless harasment from the "Speach Police", for heavens sake, think before you leap, or the price will be devestating to civilised Scotish society.

[Biggus]

melmothw,

I meant that (I assumed), the issue of Scottish independence is but one of many issues, both national and international, that occupy your time/thoughts/energy on a daily basis.

As opposed to it being an issue that occupies your every waking moment to the exclusion of almost everything else...

[melmothtw]

clunk,

I'm not quite sure that your comparison with Quebec and Canada quite holds up. As I remember it, Quebec actually voted No to independence so with Quebec still an integral part of Canada I can't really see how your experiences of discrimination etc might translate over vis-a-vis England and an independent Scotland.

[melmothtw]

No Biggus, it doesn't occupy my every waking moment, but that doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion on the subject, nor that my opinion is any less valid than the next person's.

Someone mentioned on here earlier about the Yes campaign shouting down anyone who disagrees with them. Well, I'm not in either camp but please don't use that as an excuse to shout me down Biggus.

[draken55]

Speaking as a person who lives in Scotland, I have had only received the approved PR material delivered to my door via Royal Mail. No door step canvassers and no phone calls offering transport to the Voting Station.

It's obvious the Yes Campaign dominates the web and blogosphere but most people who will vote on the day will not form their opinion from such sources. It's also obvious that a really big push is being made for the "working class" vote in the normally staunch Labour heartlands. That's being done by an interesting alliance of SNP and Scottish Socialist Party activists promising the world in return for a Yes vote.

However, this whole process is opening a chasm that may never be closed and unless HMG is very careful, offering more powers to Edinburgh late in the day only serves to confirm the SNP case that post Devolution, real power still lies in London.