Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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Cue theme music 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y46FuRCGUoI
Tony Isaac Band - Squadron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y46FuRCGUoI
Tony Isaac Band - Squadron
Theme tune to the very short-lived BBC drama from 1982. "Squadron". The series dealt with the adventures of 373 Rapid Deployment Squadron of the Royal Air Force. The Squadron operated a mix of operational RAF aircraft including the Harrier GR Mk 3, Hercules C Mk 1, Puma HC Mk 1 and the first episode, Phantom FGR Mk 2. One series of ten episodes was made. The leading cast members included Michael Culver, Malcolm Stoddard, Derek Anders, and Catriona MacColl.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 17th Nov 2014 at 16:43.
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Filming of Squadron
For reasons best known to others it was decided that the "Squadron" U.K. H.Q. was to be filmed in the Duckpond Briefing Room in STS at Lyneham.
Imagine our surprise on arrival back from a 3 ship sortie to find a bunch of lubberly looking "senior officers" slouched in the debriefing facility. The Ops staff were all excited that a film crew were in there. We were less so.
It was about the time when the legendary Chas F-K received his M.B.E. for penning Rompers Green and his little joke as technical advisor on set was to award everybody with the Order. The Squadron Warrant Officer wore the B.E.M. the Ops Officer the M.B.E. O.C. Ops the O.B.E. and the Staish wore the C.B.E. The whole lot were a riot of pink and white ribbons.
When the filming required wooly pullies it became impossible to determine who to salute so we went "no hats" till they left.
The Navy did great P.R. with Warship but I fear that "Fighter Pillock" with M***** Ox****** and "Squadron" were buttock clenchingly embarrassing. Oh for the moral fibre of "The Dambusters"!
Imagine our surprise on arrival back from a 3 ship sortie to find a bunch of lubberly looking "senior officers" slouched in the debriefing facility. The Ops staff were all excited that a film crew were in there. We were less so.
It was about the time when the legendary Chas F-K received his M.B.E. for penning Rompers Green and his little joke as technical advisor on set was to award everybody with the Order. The Squadron Warrant Officer wore the B.E.M. the Ops Officer the M.B.E. O.C. Ops the O.B.E. and the Staish wore the C.B.E. The whole lot were a riot of pink and white ribbons.
When the filming required wooly pullies it became impossible to determine who to salute so we went "no hats" till they left.
The Navy did great P.R. with Warship but I fear that "Fighter Pillock" with M***** Ox****** and "Squadron" were buttock clenchingly embarrassing. Oh for the moral fibre of "The Dambusters"!
TBT,
I am indeed referring to the episode you have mentioned. Before I start my story just a reminder that if anyone has better info please speak up. I do not have my 'faithful friend' to jog my memory. It was all a long time ago and so this tale may come out in more than one post. No teasing intended just a slowish recollection of the facts. Perhaps you could refrain from commenting until my tale is done. That way I will not get sidetracked and miss out something relevant.
First let me clear up one point. In the episode referred to it was a G/E committing these acts. In real life it was a loadmaster. I was told they rewrote history (as they always do) because the storyline would have more credence if a tech tradesman was involved.
The incidents in question occurred on 48 Sqn at Changi whilst I was on the squadron. I was not on any of the trips(there were several) involved but the chap who blew the whistle was. He was a loadmaster too and I had his story first hand. So unless he is lurking on this thread then my recollection may be as good as you are going to get.
We were having a/c divert due to ramp lock problems (been here before) uncommanded throttle and control movements and weirdest of all the Utility hydraulic system reservoir sight glass breaking.
One of the problems in sorting through this mix of incidents was that the first three were not unknown although not common (even the ramp locks were being sorted) but the sight glass breakages were unique as far as I am aware. I never had one, not even in the days of inflight top ups of the system (which idiot designed the filler cap and neck !)
TBC
I am indeed referring to the episode you have mentioned. Before I start my story just a reminder that if anyone has better info please speak up. I do not have my 'faithful friend' to jog my memory. It was all a long time ago and so this tale may come out in more than one post. No teasing intended just a slowish recollection of the facts. Perhaps you could refrain from commenting until my tale is done. That way I will not get sidetracked and miss out something relevant.
First let me clear up one point. In the episode referred to it was a G/E committing these acts. In real life it was a loadmaster. I was told they rewrote history (as they always do) because the storyline would have more credence if a tech tradesman was involved.
The incidents in question occurred on 48 Sqn at Changi whilst I was on the squadron. I was not on any of the trips(there were several) involved but the chap who blew the whistle was. He was a loadmaster too and I had his story first hand. So unless he is lurking on this thread then my recollection may be as good as you are going to get.
We were having a/c divert due to ramp lock problems (been here before) uncommanded throttle and control movements and weirdest of all the Utility hydraulic system reservoir sight glass breaking.
One of the problems in sorting through this mix of incidents was that the first three were not unknown although not common (even the ramp locks were being sorted) but the sight glass breakages were unique as far as I am aware. I never had one, not even in the days of inflight top ups of the system (which idiot designed the filler cap and neck !)
TBC
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Rather than draw it out, ex Sqn Ldr Mike Doggart (Dograt) has passed.
So sad, I knew him when he was a flight commander on 47 Sqn and he was an absolute star, nice guy and an absolute pleasure to fly with.
Met again on Airtours/MyTravel DC10. Lovely man. RIP sir.
So sad, I knew him when he was a flight commander on 47 Sqn and he was an absolute star, nice guy and an absolute pleasure to fly with.
Met again on Airtours/MyTravel DC10. Lovely man. RIP sir.
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I am very sorry to hear of Mick's passing, he was a lovely man. It is also my sad duty to inform those on this forum who were around at the same time of the passing of John Bell. John helped me and many others. As a Sqn Cdr and then Stn Cdr he was always the aviator's friend and kept his sense of humour even at elevated ranks. May you both rest easy at your new squadrons, several cold ones to be hoisted in memory. RIP gentlemen.
I too am saddened by hearing of the passing of those two chaps. I did not know Mike so well but had many dealings with John Bell over the years. He was a gentleman in the true sense of that now rather old fashioned word and will be sorely missed by all. RIP.
I have had a PM attempting to name the suspect in my current story. I would appreciate it if no such attempt was made. I will merely refer to him as the suspect because to the best of my recollection he was never charged much less convicted of any offence. I am recounting the events to set the record straight and to right a wrong that effectively defamed the G/E branch.
I think it first came to light on a para sortie. Normally such a task had a PJI and a loadmaster as despatchers an a loadmaster on intercom as the front/back link.
After a drop and the two despatchers were tidying up the a/c the suspect who was the loadmaster went forward to the galley to get water for the despatchers. All para could be hot and sweaty work especially in FEAF.
The loadmaster despatcher happened to look up and believed he saw the suspect put his hand through the flight deck steps and briefly fiddle with the controls that run under there. On the way back to base he confronted him and the reply was to the effect that he had slipped and was grabbing at the first thing that came to hand. Not convinced, after landing he conferred with the captain who reported the incident up the squadron chain.
This resulted in the suspect being grounded and his log book impounded for checking.
The results were not quite clear cut. In respect of the Utility Hydraulic sight glass breakages only trips where he was the loadmaster had so suffered.
However although the majority of cases concerning the throttles and flying controls did have him as the loadmaster there were others that did not. The Lockheed rep confirmed that rigging problems could indeed cause such symptoms. As for the ramp locks well the problems with those were well documented although better rigging instructions had reduced the incidents considerably. I had one climbing out of Changi. I had cargo on the ramp and was accused of having an asymmetric load on the ramp. I did but pointed out that it was well within the limits laid down in AP 101B-0701-11D. I heard no more about it.
However his log book contained entries that did not match the auth sheets.
In other words he was recording trips that others, not he had done.
It was on these grounds that his suspension from flying was justified and he worked in the squadron ops whilst we went short handed in the loadmaster section.
TBC
I think it first came to light on a para sortie. Normally such a task had a PJI and a loadmaster as despatchers an a loadmaster on intercom as the front/back link.
After a drop and the two despatchers were tidying up the a/c the suspect who was the loadmaster went forward to the galley to get water for the despatchers. All para could be hot and sweaty work especially in FEAF.
The loadmaster despatcher happened to look up and believed he saw the suspect put his hand through the flight deck steps and briefly fiddle with the controls that run under there. On the way back to base he confronted him and the reply was to the effect that he had slipped and was grabbing at the first thing that came to hand. Not convinced, after landing he conferred with the captain who reported the incident up the squadron chain.
This resulted in the suspect being grounded and his log book impounded for checking.
The results were not quite clear cut. In respect of the Utility Hydraulic sight glass breakages only trips where he was the loadmaster had so suffered.
However although the majority of cases concerning the throttles and flying controls did have him as the loadmaster there were others that did not. The Lockheed rep confirmed that rigging problems could indeed cause such symptoms. As for the ramp locks well the problems with those were well documented although better rigging instructions had reduced the incidents considerably. I had one climbing out of Changi. I had cargo on the ramp and was accused of having an asymmetric load on the ramp. I did but pointed out that it was well within the limits laid down in AP 101B-0701-11D. I heard no more about it.
However his log book contained entries that did not match the auth sheets.
In other words he was recording trips that others, not he had done.
It was on these grounds that his suspension from flying was justified and he worked in the squadron ops whilst we went short handed in the loadmaster section.
TBC
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Absent Friends
I would also like to express my regrets at the passing of two sterling gentleman aviators. The tales on the Flight about Dograt remain "Shags Only" but as CNI John Bell was asked to do a drop check on me at short notice. The debrief went " I don't know how you can follow a wriggly line on a map for 2 hours and get a bulls eye within 3 seconds of the P hour...Shall we call that B maintained"
Sorely missed both of them
Dougie M
Sorely missed both of them
Dougie M
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Slight hijack to thread but worth it.
Last met John Bell masquerading as a Flt Lt in the RAuxAF at Lyneham.
Another sad loss, however there are worse things than being respected and liked as JB and Dograt were.
RIP gentlemen.
Last met John Bell masquerading as a Flt Lt in the RAuxAF at Lyneham.
Another sad loss, however there are worse things than being respected and liked as JB and Dograt were.
RIP gentlemen.
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Sad to hear about Dograt ... I had the pleasure of being in the same group as him when we were doing ASC in 1986. He brightened many a day [and evening] with his presence.
The SIB became involved at an early stage as did the medics in the form of a 'trick cyclist'. The suspect would disappear from the ops room presumably for interviews and then reappear as jaunty as ever. We found it very odd but he appeared to revel in his new found 'fame'. After a few months he was posted back to the UK, to I think Innsworth, whilst the system tried to come to a decision. We got on with our lives and heard no more about him which lends credence to my belief that he was never charged in connection with these incidents. I suspect he was probably given a medical discharge on mental health grounds.
So why was he not subject to disciplinary action ? We all did wonder about that and it was not until I was doing the Law of Evidence as part of my law degree that the penny finally dropped. All of the evidence against him was circumstantial apart from the one instance when the other loadmaster saw him fiddling with the controls. After I retired I did A level Psychology (to keep my brain ticking over) and discovered that 'eye witness testimony ' was not the gold standard we all thought it was. Several experiments had demonstrated that it could not always be relied upon.
The evidence compiled from the auth sheets, Incident reports and his log
book was not in itself conclusive for reasons mentioned in an earlier post. As for the false log bok entries, the end of the month scrum for the auth sheets would provide some excuse. Any half competent lawyer (there were some very competent lawyers in Singapore) would have shredded the DLS case.
I think only a confession may have sufficed.
Yet I and others did consider him guilty and in my final post on this saga I will attempt to explain why.
So why was he not subject to disciplinary action ? We all did wonder about that and it was not until I was doing the Law of Evidence as part of my law degree that the penny finally dropped. All of the evidence against him was circumstantial apart from the one instance when the other loadmaster saw him fiddling with the controls. After I retired I did A level Psychology (to keep my brain ticking over) and discovered that 'eye witness testimony ' was not the gold standard we all thought it was. Several experiments had demonstrated that it could not always be relied upon.
The evidence compiled from the auth sheets, Incident reports and his log
book was not in itself conclusive for reasons mentioned in an earlier post. As for the false log bok entries, the end of the month scrum for the auth sheets would provide some excuse. Any half competent lawyer (there were some very competent lawyers in Singapore) would have shredded the DLS case.
I think only a confession may have sufficed.
Yet I and others did consider him guilty and in my final post on this saga I will attempt to explain why.
I thought the suspect guilty for several reasons. The testimony of the loadmaster who reported him I respected as I believed that what he saw was indeed a deliberate interference with the controls.
When we used to sit in the crewroom the suspect used to tell amusing stories of his experiences . The problem with this was that a great majority of these stories were either untrue or had happened to other people. I had served with him before and had heard the originals from others.
The clincher for me was his attitude when he was grounded. As I have mentioned before he seemed to delight in his 'fame' and made no attempt to challenge the system. He even wrote an article for the station magazine entitled 'Hydraulic 'X' ('X' = his christian name) !
If I had been accused as he was I would have asked to see the AOC and if that did not work then I would have initiated Redress of Grievance action. This cannot be ignored and it would have forced the system to come to a timely decision.
The other question of course is why did he do it ?
Yes he had some very nice unscheduled stops (Bali for a week for example) but I thought then, and time has only reinforced my belief, that he liked (needed ?) to be the centre of attention. Hence the crewroom tales etc.
Once these had grown stale he generated his own by the actions already mentioned. Once he started I think it became an addiction he could not kick.
That is the story to the best of my recollection from the events of 1971, an awfully long time ago.
Thank you for respecting my request in regard of questions until I had finished. I am now open for questions comments etc.
I know we have had this pic before but it puts some flesh on the bare bones of my story. Anyway I do like it and it somehow helped jog my memory.
When we used to sit in the crewroom the suspect used to tell amusing stories of his experiences . The problem with this was that a great majority of these stories were either untrue or had happened to other people. I had served with him before and had heard the originals from others.
The clincher for me was his attitude when he was grounded. As I have mentioned before he seemed to delight in his 'fame' and made no attempt to challenge the system. He even wrote an article for the station magazine entitled 'Hydraulic 'X' ('X' = his christian name) !
If I had been accused as he was I would have asked to see the AOC and if that did not work then I would have initiated Redress of Grievance action. This cannot be ignored and it would have forced the system to come to a timely decision.
The other question of course is why did he do it ?
Yes he had some very nice unscheduled stops (Bali for a week for example) but I thought then, and time has only reinforced my belief, that he liked (needed ?) to be the centre of attention. Hence the crewroom tales etc.
Once these had grown stale he generated his own by the actions already mentioned. Once he started I think it became an addiction he could not kick.
That is the story to the best of my recollection from the events of 1971, an awfully long time ago.
Thank you for respecting my request in regard of questions until I had finished. I am now open for questions comments etc.
I know we have had this pic before but it puts some flesh on the bare bones of my story. Anyway I do like it and it somehow helped jog my memory.
AA62,
Thanks for sharing that tale of days gone by, and thanks for confirming the fact that the "miscreant" was indeed a member of Aircrew and not a Ground Tradesman or an AGE. I believe that I may have heard of this happening, many moons ago, but the tale I heard was a little different. What I heard was talk of an ALM of "sub continent" extraction who had pulled the control cables, in flight, during a route leg that was over his homeland. It was suggested that the crew performed a precautionary landing, as a result of the undemanded control input, and the ALM spent a week on the ground, with his relatives, as techies were delivered and tests were carried out. Is it possible that what I was told was a much modified version of your facts. Or was there another incident ?
Smudge
Thanks for sharing that tale of days gone by, and thanks for confirming the fact that the "miscreant" was indeed a member of Aircrew and not a Ground Tradesman or an AGE. I believe that I may have heard of this happening, many moons ago, but the tale I heard was a little different. What I heard was talk of an ALM of "sub continent" extraction who had pulled the control cables, in flight, during a route leg that was over his homeland. It was suggested that the crew performed a precautionary landing, as a result of the undemanded control input, and the ALM spent a week on the ground, with his relatives, as techies were delivered and tests were carried out. Is it possible that what I was told was a much modified version of your facts. Or was there another incident ?
Smudge
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Smudge,
I am only too pleased to exonerate the G/Es and set the record straight in respect of the incidents I described. I have heard several variations of my story over the years and like the oral myths of old the tale becomes more embroidered every time it is recounted. I think your version is one of those as I do not know of anyone who was actually there. This is always a test for these type of sagas.
Yes GreenKnight it could be read across as a variant of that syndrome but I would leave that the the experts.
A UK visitor to 48 probably out for the Exercise Bersatu Padu.
I am only too pleased to exonerate the G/Es and set the record straight in respect of the incidents I described. I have heard several variations of my story over the years and like the oral myths of old the tale becomes more embroidered every time it is recounted. I think your version is one of those as I do not know of anyone who was actually there. This is always a test for these type of sagas.
Yes GreenKnight it could be read across as a variant of that syndrome but I would leave that the the experts.
A UK visitor to 48 probably out for the Exercise Bersatu Padu.
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AA62, Was the Bristol Freighter one of the NZ AF ones?
Re your story about the control cable fiddler. I was still at school in 71 but I do recall a tale from the 80s going around about someone with a pair of wire cutters. Clearly a variation on the theme. Not another one surely.
Drag
Re your story about the control cable fiddler. I was still at school in 71 but I do recall a tale from the 80s going around about someone with a pair of wire cutters. Clearly a variation on the theme. Not another one surely.
Drag
dragartist,
yes the RNZAF 'frighteners' were based at Changi on the pan opposite us. Did a couple of trips with them and they well deserved their other appellation of Bristol 'Vibrator'. Still they served the Kiwis well.
Ref your 'cable cutter' tale I vaguely recall something of the kind but not airborne and perhaps not the Herc.
yes the RNZAF 'frighteners' were based at Changi on the pan opposite us. Did a couple of trips with them and they well deserved their other appellation of Bristol 'Vibrator'. Still they served the Kiwis well.
Ref your 'cable cutter' tale I vaguely recall something of the kind but not airborne and perhaps not the Herc.