Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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AA62,
When I was at school in Singapore 1968/9 played rugby with the Kiwis and a few Aus. They were far better than us Brits.
Small world on here Gouldie also played Rugby for the RMAF with my Dad.
The cutter tale was probably form my passive EW days. They call it ISTAR now.
When I was at school in Singapore 1968/9 played rugby with the Kiwis and a few Aus. They were far better than us Brits.
Small world on here Gouldie also played Rugby for the RMAF with my Dad.
The cutter tale was probably form my passive EW days. They call it ISTAR now.
Re: Control cable incident(s)
AA62 & Smudge
I was a SNCO propulsion (sounds much posher than 'engines' ) trade supervisor on 48 at the time of the control input 'interferences' and was personally involved, along with airframe SNCO colleagues, in three (or four?) investigations after aircrews reported these un-commanded control inputs. At the time, each instance was considered a potentially serious technical issue.
Many man-hours were spent in efforts to find the cause, including extensive investigation/replacement of elevator booster packs, bleeding of hydraulic circuits and a detailed inspection of control system components. One particular line of investigation led to the discovery of damage to a non-metallic pulley wheel on a cable tensioner situated above the 'hogs trough' in the roof of the forward part of the freight bay. The grooved pulley had a piece of its rim missing; an extensive search to find the broken piece was fruitless. We suspected that the broken piece probably fell onto the cargo that had been unloaded before we began our work. No other fault was found on this, or any of the other reported instances that I was involved in.
After the loadmaster situation became general knowledge in the ground engineering flight office, it was mooted that the damaged pulley could possibly have been caused by a person standing on the cargo, then giving a sharp downward pull on the cable running through the tensioners, the side-loading of that force damaging the pulley in the process. I never experienced another instance of a damaged tensioner pulley up to that time, or subsequently, in my ten years on the Hercules fleet. I have no knowledge of any incident allegedly involving cable cutters.
I was a SNCO propulsion (sounds much posher than 'engines' ) trade supervisor on 48 at the time of the control input 'interferences' and was personally involved, along with airframe SNCO colleagues, in three (or four?) investigations after aircrews reported these un-commanded control inputs. At the time, each instance was considered a potentially serious technical issue.
Many man-hours were spent in efforts to find the cause, including extensive investigation/replacement of elevator booster packs, bleeding of hydraulic circuits and a detailed inspection of control system components. One particular line of investigation led to the discovery of damage to a non-metallic pulley wheel on a cable tensioner situated above the 'hogs trough' in the roof of the forward part of the freight bay. The grooved pulley had a piece of its rim missing; an extensive search to find the broken piece was fruitless. We suspected that the broken piece probably fell onto the cargo that had been unloaded before we began our work. No other fault was found on this, or any of the other reported instances that I was involved in.
After the loadmaster situation became general knowledge in the ground engineering flight office, it was mooted that the damaged pulley could possibly have been caused by a person standing on the cargo, then giving a sharp downward pull on the cable running through the tensioners, the side-loading of that force damaging the pulley in the process. I never experienced another instance of a damaged tensioner pulley up to that time, or subsequently, in my ten years on the Hercules fleet. I have no knowledge of any incident allegedly involving cable cutters.
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Extraordinary story AA62, thanks for that
I suppose I'll have to wait 20 or 30 years before I can spill the beans on my time on Hercs.
In the meantime, can anyone relate, first hand, the story of Bostik Bob. I have had it from the horse's mouth, but that is not always the most true account! Maybe Top Bunk Tester could have a stab at it?
I suppose I'll have to wait 20 or 30 years before I can spill the beans on my time on Hercs.
In the meantime, can anyone relate, first hand, the story of Bostik Bob. I have had it from the horse's mouth, but that is not always the most true account! Maybe Top Bunk Tester could have a stab at it?
Well, as we seem to be in to the area of espionage, intrigue and sabotage, perhaps a tale from White team, RAF Colerne, circa 1971 might add spice to "goings on". This is not speculation, rumour or hype, I was there, this happened.
White team was one of two of the six "second line" C130 servicing teams based at RAF Colerne at that time that was charged with carrying out Base 3 servicing of the C130K, the other four did Base 2 (Minor servicing). Base 3 was a month long major service on the aircraft that later became the major servicing carried out by Marshalls of Cambridge. I had arrived on the team from RAF Halton as an ex Craft Aprrentice, Junior Technician A Fitt A. Around 1971 we were seeing the increase in IRA threat and action, and hearing rumour that certain bases, Brize, Lyneham, Colerne, Benson and Abingdon (all involved in transport operations in to NI) were directly threatened by the terrorist organisation. So, imagine the reaction of our SNCOs and Officers when on a Monday morning the words "UP THE IRA" were found scrawled across the "****e" on the cargo door of our newly recieved aircraft, awaiting a pre service wash. All agreed that it wasn't there last night, so must have been done after the aircraft arrived for servicing. As a Jnr Tech, I then became the usual mushroom, but like every other tradesman on White team, was interviewed by the SIB as to my knowledge of the origin of the wording. Nothing came of these interviews, and the servicing continued.
As the servicing went along, a few "funny" things happened. An engine man reported that overnight a 16 lead plug had been cut off (by snips) and dumped in the bottom of the engine nacelle. An hydraulic line to the Utility system was found crimped, by what was assumed to be standard pliers, and finally all the exposed wiring to the Aux system Ramp and door controls were found cut one morning. Back came our SIB chums.
Surprisingly, when they finally got to the bottom of it, the miscreant was not really an IRA sympathiser, more likely someone with the same mental problems as AA62s former colleague. Surprisingly he was a Corporal, of some experience, and not of Irish, but Welsh extraction, he claimed he was acting in sympathy with his Northern Irish counterparts. I rather suspect I grew up a lot as a result of this occurrence, certainly it opened my eyes to the potential of the inside man. I know that there was a period of horrible suspicion across our team that caused a lot of social bother. The Cpl was "dealt with", we had no more incidents of sabotage in my time there thankfully. I doubt that Albert was the only service aircraft that suffered such actions.
Smudge
White team was one of two of the six "second line" C130 servicing teams based at RAF Colerne at that time that was charged with carrying out Base 3 servicing of the C130K, the other four did Base 2 (Minor servicing). Base 3 was a month long major service on the aircraft that later became the major servicing carried out by Marshalls of Cambridge. I had arrived on the team from RAF Halton as an ex Craft Aprrentice, Junior Technician A Fitt A. Around 1971 we were seeing the increase in IRA threat and action, and hearing rumour that certain bases, Brize, Lyneham, Colerne, Benson and Abingdon (all involved in transport operations in to NI) were directly threatened by the terrorist organisation. So, imagine the reaction of our SNCOs and Officers when on a Monday morning the words "UP THE IRA" were found scrawled across the "****e" on the cargo door of our newly recieved aircraft, awaiting a pre service wash. All agreed that it wasn't there last night, so must have been done after the aircraft arrived for servicing. As a Jnr Tech, I then became the usual mushroom, but like every other tradesman on White team, was interviewed by the SIB as to my knowledge of the origin of the wording. Nothing came of these interviews, and the servicing continued.
As the servicing went along, a few "funny" things happened. An engine man reported that overnight a 16 lead plug had been cut off (by snips) and dumped in the bottom of the engine nacelle. An hydraulic line to the Utility system was found crimped, by what was assumed to be standard pliers, and finally all the exposed wiring to the Aux system Ramp and door controls were found cut one morning. Back came our SIB chums.
Surprisingly, when they finally got to the bottom of it, the miscreant was not really an IRA sympathiser, more likely someone with the same mental problems as AA62s former colleague. Surprisingly he was a Corporal, of some experience, and not of Irish, but Welsh extraction, he claimed he was acting in sympathy with his Northern Irish counterparts. I rather suspect I grew up a lot as a result of this occurrence, certainly it opened my eyes to the potential of the inside man. I know that there was a period of horrible suspicion across our team that caused a lot of social bother. The Cpl was "dealt with", we had no more incidents of sabotage in my time there thankfully. I doubt that Albert was the only service aircraft that suffered such actions.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 23rd Nov 2014 at 08:57.
Null Orfice, smudge et al,
thank you for your posts reminding us all of the cost in man hours etc of these actions. I think the week in Bali that the suspect had was due to the a/c having a hydraulic flush etc. As I said the Utility sight glass breakages were the thing that caused me the most puzzlement. It would appear that my tale is the only one that involved incidents induced in flight.
Once found the IRCM box completely disconnected when doing the preflight on a 'Banner' flight . But that was a cock up which I may bore you with later.
I have found a few more black and white pics of my time on 48. The one below is of 'aa' as a very young man taken in the very crewroom on 48 where our suspect held court. Taken by our local newspaper back home of 'our boys serving overseas'.
thank you for your posts reminding us all of the cost in man hours etc of these actions. I think the week in Bali that the suspect had was due to the a/c having a hydraulic flush etc. As I said the Utility sight glass breakages were the thing that caused me the most puzzlement. It would appear that my tale is the only one that involved incidents induced in flight.
Once found the IRCM box completely disconnected when doing the preflight on a 'Banner' flight . But that was a cock up which I may bore you with later.
I have found a few more black and white pics of my time on 48. The one below is of 'aa' as a very young man taken in the very crewroom on 48 where our suspect held court. Taken by our local newspaper back home of 'our boys serving overseas'.
Coffman,
please get the terminology correct. SEATO standard brown knees !
please get the terminology correct. SEATO standard brown knees !
Good looking lad, AA62! 
I do remember you. Fortunately, for the other K-fans here, my local rag weren't looking overseas for any Bristol boys to feature, so I remain (almost) incognito.
I did appear a few times in the dailys, in a recruiting ad for the RAF when I was on Javelins at Kuching - we didn't know for what purpose the pictures were to be used for at the time. Sadly, no royalties received!
Same location, I was also photographed in action (not with a weapon, just an Avpin bottle and the aircraft ladder) by a man from the Washington Post who promised copies, none ever arrived though.
I do remember you. Fortunately, for the other K-fans here, my local rag weren't looking overseas for any Bristol boys to feature, so I remain (almost) incognito.
I did appear a few times in the dailys, in a recruiting ad for the RAF when I was on Javelins at Kuching - we didn't know for what purpose the pictures were to be used for at the time. Sadly, no royalties received!
Same location, I was also photographed in action (not with a weapon, just an Avpin bottle and the aircraft ladder) by a man from the Washington Post who promised copies, none ever arrived though.
dragartist,
did your father have anything to do with my second choice transport a/c, the Caribou ? When I was on the group EU we used to visit the RMAF annually on a two week standards inspection. I used to like spending most of my time with the Caribou squadron at Labuan.
However at the start of one visit not long after they received their Hercs I was asked to investigate a problem they were having re weighing their a/c. No good saying not my job, I had to get on with it. I had only seen our engineers do it once back at Lyneham . Off I went to see the re weighing team who were getting some flak about the problems. I have a very high regard for the personnel of the RMAF some of whom had been trained at Halton. It was obvious that my presence was resented as they naturally thought I had come to make them look stupid. The usual hospitality was lacking.
I had no clear idea of how to proceed so fell back on my tech training. I asked them how they went about the task and was shown the weighing kit which seemed not dissimilar to ours. I then asked to see the calibration charts.
There were none. The kit had been procured 'nth' hand by their bean counters.
They did not have a hangar big enough to put the Herc in and the pan on which the reweighing had to be done had a marked slope. None of this was
conducive to an accurate result. I looked at the result they had obtained and checked it against the delivery weight and index . It was markedly different.
So I asked for the other a/c details just as a comparison.
What a shock . All their a/c had the same basic weight and index ! This was impossible. They had been given a 'fleet mean' set of values. Not surprising on first reweigh the results were different.
I briefed the engineers on what I intended to report and the coffee appeared
as did an office to write it up my report. Really given the constraints under which they worked they were on a loser to nothing. I was just relieved to have found some way to explain what was going on.
No apologies for the pic of 'aa' and the 'Bou'. If it were not for being on the 'K' I would not have been there.
did your father have anything to do with my second choice transport a/c, the Caribou ? When I was on the group EU we used to visit the RMAF annually on a two week standards inspection. I used to like spending most of my time with the Caribou squadron at Labuan.
However at the start of one visit not long after they received their Hercs I was asked to investigate a problem they were having re weighing their a/c. No good saying not my job, I had to get on with it. I had only seen our engineers do it once back at Lyneham . Off I went to see the re weighing team who were getting some flak about the problems. I have a very high regard for the personnel of the RMAF some of whom had been trained at Halton. It was obvious that my presence was resented as they naturally thought I had come to make them look stupid. The usual hospitality was lacking.
I had no clear idea of how to proceed so fell back on my tech training. I asked them how they went about the task and was shown the weighing kit which seemed not dissimilar to ours. I then asked to see the calibration charts.
There were none. The kit had been procured 'nth' hand by their bean counters.
They did not have a hangar big enough to put the Herc in and the pan on which the reweighing had to be done had a marked slope. None of this was
conducive to an accurate result. I looked at the result they had obtained and checked it against the delivery weight and index . It was markedly different.
So I asked for the other a/c details just as a comparison.
What a shock . All their a/c had the same basic weight and index ! This was impossible. They had been given a 'fleet mean' set of values. Not surprising on first reweigh the results were different.
I briefed the engineers on what I intended to report and the coffee appeared
as did an office to write it up my report. Really given the constraints under which they worked they were on a loser to nothing. I was just relieved to have found some way to explain what was going on.
No apologies for the pic of 'aa' and the 'Bou'. If it were not for being on the 'K' I would not have been there.
Null Orifice,
flattery will get you a beer next time we meet. I also am ex Javelins but UK only on 33 at Middleton St George. This is not the place to discuss the Sapphire's infamous centre line closure problems that you engine (it was still engines then) chaps had to deal with. Avpin ! Where was 'elfn safety' then ?
I am amazed we have any lungs left.
flattery will get you a beer next time we meet. I also am ex Javelins but UK only on 33 at Middleton St George. This is not the place to discuss the Sapphire's infamous centre line closure problems that you engine (it was still engines then) chaps had to deal with. Avpin ! Where was 'elfn safety' then ?
I am amazed we have any lungs left.
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Just came across this pic of Mrs T back in 77 while looking for something else ... clearly a presentation of some kind ... can anyone shed any more light on the occasion
Image Credit : Unknown
Best ...
Coff.
PS Good to see you chaps are still enjoying the Thread ...
Image Credit : Unknown
Best ...
Coff.
PS Good to see you chaps are still enjoying the Thread ...
Coffman,
it is too early for it to be anything to do with her Falklands trip so I am puzzled too. I think know the chap doing the presentation, fairly sure it is
Chris G....
it is too early for it to be anything to do with her Falklands trip so I am puzzled too. I think know the chap doing the presentation, fairly sure it is
Chris G....
I assume it was a souvenir of a trip in the 'K' but what was her status at the time ?
AA62,
Found this. Mrs T gave a speech to 44 Para Bde at Lyneham on 20 Nov 77 and then took a flight on 21 Nov 77 - she was Conservative Party (Opposition) leader at the time:
Margaret Thatcher during a flight with the 44th Parachute Brigade, 21st November 1977. HEZ-1651986 © Keystone Archives
Speech to 44th Paratroop Brigade | Margaret Thatcher Foundation
Found this. Mrs T gave a speech to 44 Para Bde at Lyneham on 20 Nov 77 and then took a flight on 21 Nov 77 - she was Conservative Party (Opposition) leader at the time:
Margaret Thatcher during a flight with the 44th Parachute Brigade, 21st November 1977. HEZ-1651986 © Keystone Archives
Speech to 44th Paratroop Brigade | Margaret Thatcher Foundation
RAFEngo,
many thanks for that Makes perfect sense now and good to see that she was flying with the TA paras. I doubt she did the whole 70 min sortie 'down the back' !
many thanks for that Makes perfect sense now and good to see that she was flying with the TA paras. I doubt she did the whole 70 min sortie 'down the back' !