Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
UKMAMS,
Love them or loath them, they were an essential cog in the Machine that ensured that Albert got the job done. I had the great honour of being made an "honorary" Muppet by a team leader whose first name was Jim. Having his own imprest Jim arranged a banquet in his suite in our Hotel, on our way back from a Far East trip. The hard work was done, and the lads from MAMS always offered to stay behind and help where they could with the aircraft. I never, ever, had anything other than respect for the MAMS boys (Muppets all). As an associate Muppet I hope that we can get more input, looking at how they saw operating down route on Albert (K of course).
Smudge
Love them or loath them, they were an essential cog in the Machine that ensured that Albert got the job done. I had the great honour of being made an "honorary" Muppet by a team leader whose first name was Jim. Having his own imprest Jim arranged a banquet in his suite in our Hotel, on our way back from a Far East trip. The hard work was done, and the lads from MAMS always offered to stay behind and help where they could with the aircraft. I never, ever, had anything other than respect for the MAMS boys (Muppets all). As an associate Muppet I hope that we can get more input, looking at how they saw operating down route on Albert (K of course).
Smudge
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Smudge ...
Perhaps we should include this link to the UKMAMS 'Old Boys Association' given the team effort on Op Bushel and what you have said above ?
UKMAMS Op Bushel
A few other Ops covered as well ...
UKMAMS HomePage
Perhaps we should include this link to the UKMAMS 'Old Boys Association' given the team effort on Op Bushel and what you have said above ?
UKMAMS Op Bushel
A few other Ops covered as well ...
UKMAMS HomePage
When were established in the cruise on the way to Nairobi the co tried contacting base on the HF. Nothing ! So it was not until we we within VHF range that we were able to inform anyone that we were airborne and arriving early.
We landed and parked outside the VIP terminal. It was dark by now and we could see that it was well and truly shut. We explained the problem to our VIP who was totally unfazed by it. So we sat for about an hour with the GTC running providing a modicum of air conditioning whilst they tried to find the man with the VIP terminal key. Eventually he turned up with a reception committee and we disembarked our pax and flew down to Mombasa. We were met by the boss and a case of beer. I gave him a very brief rundown and he gave us all the next day off. Except that group wanted a report ASAP ! I took the hint so next morning after an early breakfast I wrote a thank you note to every team member and pushed them under their doors whilst they had a lie in. Then I drafted my report which the boss later turned into 'staffspeak'. Then I retired to the bar for a well earned beer or was it two ?.
My loyal reader, whoever you are, will be relieved to hear that the next post will wrap up the Op Vigour saga.
We landed and parked outside the VIP terminal. It was dark by now and we could see that it was well and truly shut. We explained the problem to our VIP who was totally unfazed by it. So we sat for about an hour with the GTC running providing a modicum of air conditioning whilst they tried to find the man with the VIP terminal key. Eventually he turned up with a reception committee and we disembarked our pax and flew down to Mombasa. We were met by the boss and a case of beer. I gave him a very brief rundown and he gave us all the next day off. Except that group wanted a report ASAP ! I took the hint so next morning after an early breakfast I wrote a thank you note to every team member and pushed them under their doors whilst they had a lie in. Then I drafted my report which the boss later turned into 'staffspeak'. Then I retired to the bar for a well earned beer or was it two ?.
My loyal reader, whoever you are, will be relieved to hear that the next post will wrap up the Op Vigour saga.
Op Vigour continued for a while longer and as the original end of detachment date approached we all expected it to be extended as it was plain the US were remaining in theatre for some time. However due to a 'who will pay' spat between the two ministries involved we were not extended. So like thieves in the night we folded our tents and came home. Job not quite done.
The US did stay on and it was during this phase that 'Blackhawk down' occurred.
About a month later all the crew received a pen or a notebook from the minister's office with a nice covering letter.
So ended one of my more interesting trips !
The US did stay on and it was during this phase that 'Blackhawk down' occurred.
About a month later all the crew received a pen or a notebook from the minister's office with a nice covering letter.
So ended one of my more interesting trips !
AA62,
"So like thieves in the night we folded our tents and came home. Job not quite done."!
How very apt, and a well narrated tale that reminds me very much of the deployment to Dar Es Salaam some years later when Kigale became the focus of world attention, though only fleetingly. I'm sure that many of us who served on, in or supported Albert have experienced relief work, be it first or second hand, and been exasperated at the ineptitude of Government and hierarchy to take the facts "on the ground" in to account when deciding whether to continue an operation. I think we can all agree though, when it comes to such operations, the C130 is the "vehicle of choice", and, the Royal Air Force team, the epitome of capability, when allowed to get on with the job.
Now, anyone around who can give us some idea of flying as part of the Green Barrows, and the difficulties of the formation barrel roll, away from the crowd line
Smudge
"So like thieves in the night we folded our tents and came home. Job not quite done."!
How very apt, and a well narrated tale that reminds me very much of the deployment to Dar Es Salaam some years later when Kigale became the focus of world attention, though only fleetingly. I'm sure that many of us who served on, in or supported Albert have experienced relief work, be it first or second hand, and been exasperated at the ineptitude of Government and hierarchy to take the facts "on the ground" in to account when deciding whether to continue an operation. I think we can all agree though, when it comes to such operations, the C130 is the "vehicle of choice", and, the Royal Air Force team, the epitome of capability, when allowed to get on with the job.
Now, anyone around who can give us some idea of flying as part of the Green Barrows, and the difficulties of the formation barrel roll, away from the crowd line
Smudge
Ahh,Smuj, that simple delightful aerobatic manoeuvre...to truly appreciate the `niceties/gotchas`,and for those unaccustomed to more than 20 deg. of bank,a `training tool` is required....the cardboard middle of a toilet-roll,or a kitchen roll,or similar...you will notice it is spiral wound,some to the left,others ,to the right....one of each is preferred...
Starting at one end of the spiral,draw little aeroplanes in the standard formation of 5(ie 3 one behind each other,and the other 2 ,one on each side midway between the first 2.Feel free to number them,1-ldr ,2 stbd,3 port,4 box 5,behind 4....if performing for a Naval occasion,2 and 3 are reversed....
Now,proceed around the periphery,along the spiral,and draw the formation again,at every 90 deg,until you`ve done a full 360....Find the other roll and complete in the opposite direction....Now the fun starts..in flight..
At the preflight briefing,our illustrious leader(usually S** V****) will have run-thu` all the problems and ways to deal with them,,for they are many,including `emergency break`,when some twonker gets in our way,and we have to scatter to the 5 winds; it actually does look much better than the `other` lot that fly those red things,and we just use black smoke as well....an added effect is gained by having primed the fuel jettison,and at the `break` the Eng will`dump,and the Nav should fire off as many Verey cartridges as he can in quick succession,hopefully setting the fuel alight....This is also a good deterrent to any would-be `Ace` FJ pilot during fighter-affil....Nowadays,firing the chaff/flares at this point will really have the spectators on their feet....However it also helps one to see where all/nearly all the other aircraft are,for a grand rejoin....
Meanwhile,back to the `barrel-roll`and `howtodoit`...We usually start running-in at about 250-270 kts ,then start rolling,(if you b/r to the right,you start rolling left,and vversa..),and diving to about 45dg.,and about 320 kts...you can follow with the `tool` by postitioning the start of the spiral at about the 4 o`clock ,for a roll to the right,or 8 o`clock for a roll left...
By this time,#5 is calling `Buster` as the TQ will be about 19600/1032.?but this is no time to be looking at gauges,as the leader is now reversing the roll,and heaving the nose up in a graceful arc towards about 60 deg,wings vertical at the half-way point,continuing to the top,inverted,where the wings are level,and the nose is above the horizon,not quite weightless....follow on the bog-roll.. keeping the `pull and roll` going,all the way down t`other side....
Of course,it was good for the leader,,and #4 and#5,but #2 and#3 would be really `stretched`...
Another good variation would be for #5 to be `plugged` onto #4,in days of yore ,when we had tankers.....
And to finish ,a few little rules; keep it smooth,keep it balanced,if you are too fast,make it big,a little slow,faster roll..Over the top,nose above the horizon,and never,ever,if it turns to `rat****`,never pull-thru`.......
If you look side-on to the bog roll,if the axis/flight path is inclined slightly up,the initial pitch-up is slightly steeper than if the axis is level,but the descent is shallower. If the initial pitch-up is shallow(roll axis below the horizon),the descent from inverted will be steeper...! And that is where a lot of people have died,doing barrel rolls.....ie Invader at Biggin....
There is a yu-toob video of a Transall barrel-rolling......
Well,those were the days.....then home for tea and medals....
Starting at one end of the spiral,draw little aeroplanes in the standard formation of 5(ie 3 one behind each other,and the other 2 ,one on each side midway between the first 2.Feel free to number them,1-ldr ,2 stbd,3 port,4 box 5,behind 4....if performing for a Naval occasion,2 and 3 are reversed....
Now,proceed around the periphery,along the spiral,and draw the formation again,at every 90 deg,until you`ve done a full 360....Find the other roll and complete in the opposite direction....Now the fun starts..in flight..
At the preflight briefing,our illustrious leader(usually S** V****) will have run-thu` all the problems and ways to deal with them,,for they are many,including `emergency break`,when some twonker gets in our way,and we have to scatter to the 5 winds; it actually does look much better than the `other` lot that fly those red things,and we just use black smoke as well....an added effect is gained by having primed the fuel jettison,and at the `break` the Eng will`dump,and the Nav should fire off as many Verey cartridges as he can in quick succession,hopefully setting the fuel alight....This is also a good deterrent to any would-be `Ace` FJ pilot during fighter-affil....Nowadays,firing the chaff/flares at this point will really have the spectators on their feet....However it also helps one to see where all/nearly all the other aircraft are,for a grand rejoin....
Meanwhile,back to the `barrel-roll`and `howtodoit`...We usually start running-in at about 250-270 kts ,then start rolling,(if you b/r to the right,you start rolling left,and vversa..),and diving to about 45dg.,and about 320 kts...you can follow with the `tool` by postitioning the start of the spiral at about the 4 o`clock ,for a roll to the right,or 8 o`clock for a roll left...
By this time,#5 is calling `Buster` as the TQ will be about 19600/1032.?but this is no time to be looking at gauges,as the leader is now reversing the roll,and heaving the nose up in a graceful arc towards about 60 deg,wings vertical at the half-way point,continuing to the top,inverted,where the wings are level,and the nose is above the horizon,not quite weightless....follow on the bog-roll.. keeping the `pull and roll` going,all the way down t`other side....
Of course,it was good for the leader,,and #4 and#5,but #2 and#3 would be really `stretched`...
Another good variation would be for #5 to be `plugged` onto #4,in days of yore ,when we had tankers.....
And to finish ,a few little rules; keep it smooth,keep it balanced,if you are too fast,make it big,a little slow,faster roll..Over the top,nose above the horizon,and never,ever,if it turns to `rat****`,never pull-thru`.......
If you look side-on to the bog roll,if the axis/flight path is inclined slightly up,the initial pitch-up is slightly steeper than if the axis is level,but the descent is shallower. If the initial pitch-up is shallow(roll axis below the horizon),the descent from inverted will be steeper...! And that is where a lot of people have died,doing barrel rolls.....ie Invader at Biggin....
There is a yu-toob video of a Transall barrel-rolling......
Well,those were the days.....then home for tea and medals....
Sycamore,
. Priceless sir, I have followed your instructions to the letter. I have managed an appointment with my GP to remove the "bog roll centre" from my right eye on Thursday, meanwhile I struggle to maintain formation with Mrs Smudge, who is a very "vertically challenged" person. Seriously, having seen a couple of performances, the display was always more impressive than the "chaps in red" could manage with their lower powered machines. I'm sure that a future government might see sense and decide to renovate a few 'K's and replace the sparrows with the Barrows, it would have my full support. Do tell more, if you can.
Smudge
. Priceless sir, I have followed your instructions to the letter. I have managed an appointment with my GP to remove the "bog roll centre" from my right eye on Thursday, meanwhile I struggle to maintain formation with Mrs Smudge, who is a very "vertically challenged" person. Seriously, having seen a couple of performances, the display was always more impressive than the "chaps in red" could manage with their lower powered machines. I'm sure that a future government might see sense and decide to renovate a few 'K's and replace the sparrows with the Barrows, it would have my full support. Do tell more, if you can.Smudge
Another tale but as I was not on this trip I do not have my faithful friend to consult. I have only the alter ego of my unfaithful friend, my memory. So all corrections are most welcome. Perhaps Brian the Nav can ask Chris K. if he remembers this incident.
Not long after we got the 'K' one of our a/c on departure from Bermuda with a full pax load experienced a runaway rudder trim. I think the captain was Neil F and the AQM (as we were at that time) was Terry F. The pilots managed to hold the a/c with full opposite rudder but needed some mechanical assistance. This was provided by the AQM in the form of lashing strops round the rudder pedals and secured to a tie down point in the cargo compartment. They landed back safely at Bermuda.
Several things were changed as a result of this incident. We had been cleared to operate with any number of pax with only one AQM. This was adjusted to bring us more or less in line with the other RAF transport a/c. The pax LSJs were stowed in the large bins on the cargo door. It had proved very difficult for the single AQM to issue and supervise their donning. The initial solution was to put the LSJs behind any of the para seats that were fitted. Due to high pilferage rates this was changed to putting them in canvas bags and hanging then from the top of the seat rail.
Now I may need help here from smudge and his tech colleagues.
The cause of the incident was deemed to be the fitment of an incorrect relay
in the rudder trim circuit. The problem for the groundcrew was the plethora of part numbers coupled with the paucity of spares. The relay had been issued and 'correctly' fitted in good faith.
As you ascend the cargo ramp and onto the door on the LH side as you look aft is a notice written on the soundproofing. If I recall correctly it read :
'Use only Cutler Hammer relays Part number XXXXXXXXXXXX.'
Am I correct in thinking this was a component in the rudder trim circuit and this notice a legacy of the incident I have described ?
Not long after we got the 'K' one of our a/c on departure from Bermuda with a full pax load experienced a runaway rudder trim. I think the captain was Neil F and the AQM (as we were at that time) was Terry F. The pilots managed to hold the a/c with full opposite rudder but needed some mechanical assistance. This was provided by the AQM in the form of lashing strops round the rudder pedals and secured to a tie down point in the cargo compartment. They landed back safely at Bermuda.
Several things were changed as a result of this incident. We had been cleared to operate with any number of pax with only one AQM. This was adjusted to bring us more or less in line with the other RAF transport a/c. The pax LSJs were stowed in the large bins on the cargo door. It had proved very difficult for the single AQM to issue and supervise their donning. The initial solution was to put the LSJs behind any of the para seats that were fitted. Due to high pilferage rates this was changed to putting them in canvas bags and hanging then from the top of the seat rail.
Now I may need help here from smudge and his tech colleagues.
The cause of the incident was deemed to be the fitment of an incorrect relay
in the rudder trim circuit. The problem for the groundcrew was the plethora of part numbers coupled with the paucity of spares. The relay had been issued and 'correctly' fitted in good faith.
As you ascend the cargo ramp and onto the door on the LH side as you look aft is a notice written on the soundproofing. If I recall correctly it read :
'Use only Cutler Hammer relays Part number XXXXXXXXXXXX.'
Am I correct in thinking this was a component in the rudder trim circuit and this notice a legacy of the incident I have described ?
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Ah the wonderful S** V****, one of the very few officers that I would follow blindly and without question. To most, a very grumpy Sqn Ldr, but if you ever worked for him you soon saw the measure of the man. If you were in the wrong then watch your six but if you were in the right and he agreed with you then a better ally could not be found. I had the priviledge to call this gentleman "Boss" for several years.
If his twin brother ever came out to play then a good time was guaranteed
He was also Det Cdr on Op VIGOUR for the month I was down there.
If his twin brother ever came out to play then a good time was guaranteed
He was also Det Cdr on Op VIGOUR for the month I was down there.
Last edited by Top Bunk Tester; 6th Nov 2014 at 11:26.
Top bunk tester,
I think this is a pic of the gentleman in question (kneeling) with whom I did a lot of trips. When you got to my age and stage who you went with was more important than where you went. I was in a position to pretty much pick and choose hence my trips with SV and a few others. I could make up my fantasy crew but would not dream of articulating it on an open forum !
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 6th Nov 2014 at 11:57. Reason: correction
Re: #1789
Looks like our paths may have crossed, ye Ancient one, albeit several thousand miles apart, back in the early days of the K.
I had the honour (and indeed, pleasure
!!) of being Duty Engineering SNCO at Colerne around the time of the aforementioned Bermuda incident. My relatively minor involvement was in the search to rectify the 'No Spares Available' situation in the so-called supply system (more of this in future posts).
I was, on this occasion, requested by Tech Ops to fetch my backside up into the ramp area of each of the Ks on the base, to ascertain the Part No/Manufacturer of the Cutler Hammer item requested. Can't remember what the correct Part No was! This was in the days before the signage you referred to (Part No XXXXXXXXXX) was applied (if my crumbling memory serves me well). Needless to say, a certain amount of 'robbing Peter' took place in the ensuing knock-on effect, in order to meet the target dates for 'frames to return to their respective bases.
Looks like our paths may have crossed, ye Ancient one, albeit several thousand miles apart, back in the early days of the K.
I had the honour (and indeed, pleasure
!!) of being Duty Engineering SNCO at Colerne around the time of the aforementioned Bermuda incident. My relatively minor involvement was in the search to rectify the 'No Spares Available' situation in the so-called supply system (more of this in future posts).I was, on this occasion, requested by Tech Ops to fetch my backside up into the ramp area of each of the Ks on the base, to ascertain the Part No/Manufacturer of the Cutler Hammer item requested. Can't remember what the correct Part No was! This was in the days before the signage you referred to (Part No XXXXXXXXXX) was applied (if my crumbling memory serves me well). Needless to say, a certain amount of 'robbing Peter' took place in the ensuing knock-on effect, in order to meet the target dates for 'frames to return to their respective bases.
Another S** V**** fan here, without a doubt the finest operator I have ever served with; an exemplary officer, and someone in whom I had absolute trust. I remember when I returned to the fleet (after sunny jolly hols at HQ STC) I was given a double-Co crew through the OCU. One of the Co's (who became a DFC-winning training captain on SF) was quite a character but also terrified of S** who was by now on STANEVAL. I had to take him to one side and explain that underneath the grumpy exterior was a heart of gold and more knowledge of the aircraft than it should be possible to fit into one body.
Null Orifice,
Why do I know that expression ? As an ex Colernite myself, it sounds like you did a bit of robbery, that followed from one side of the airfield to the other. I'm sure you have some good tales from Bannerdown Hill.
AA62,
Respect to the Loadmaster who used some mechanical advantage to overcome the unwanted yaw effect. I assume that (thinking about a previous post I made regarding differential power) the pilot had already attempted some adjustment via a differential power setting. If so, I'm suffering a misunderstanding of the accident report for the aircraft that crashed at Colerne, where I understood that the use of opposite aileron and rudder was unable to overcome the loss of the No1 engine, with high power applied to the other three.
TBT,
I was fortunate indeed to have been a GE when S** V**** was a regular sight down route. Always found him to be fair, and someone who was easy to follow. Surely the sign of a good leader.
With respect to fitting only authorised parts, I think I have already related being made to refuse the offer of a spare from a USAF source, and having to wait a couple of days for the Lyneham supplied spare to be delivered. Perhaps AA62 justifies Eng Wings decision, certainly, it's food for thought for those of us who may have considered the "optional" spare. Im sure others can cover similar examples. Great posts gentlemen, and something to think about.
Now "null orifice" ? TD valve adjustment ?
Smudge
Why do I know that expression ? As an ex Colernite myself, it sounds like you did a bit of robbery, that followed from one side of the airfield to the other. I'm sure you have some good tales from Bannerdown Hill.
AA62,
Respect to the Loadmaster who used some mechanical advantage to overcome the unwanted yaw effect. I assume that (thinking about a previous post I made regarding differential power) the pilot had already attempted some adjustment via a differential power setting. If so, I'm suffering a misunderstanding of the accident report for the aircraft that crashed at Colerne, where I understood that the use of opposite aileron and rudder was unable to overcome the loss of the No1 engine, with high power applied to the other three.
TBT,
I was fortunate indeed to have been a GE when S** V**** was a regular sight down route. Always found him to be fair, and someone who was easy to follow. Surely the sign of a good leader.
With respect to fitting only authorised parts, I think I have already related being made to refuse the offer of a spare from a USAF source, and having to wait a couple of days for the Lyneham supplied spare to be delivered. Perhaps AA62 justifies Eng Wings decision, certainly, it's food for thought for those of us who may have considered the "optional" spare. Im sure others can cover similar examples. Great posts gentlemen, and something to think about.
Now "null orifice" ? TD valve adjustment ?
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 6th Nov 2014 at 20:02.
Null Orfice,
Thank you for confirming my very distant memory and your part in this story. My understanding, viewed through the prism of long ago memory, was that the relays in question looked the same and fitted perfectly. The problem for the suppliers and engineers was that we had three different schemes for part numbers. As usual there was a distinct lack of spares across the board ! And in the usual RAF manner very few of the engineers had any formal Hercules training at that time. We had Lockheed numbers, Federal Stock numbers (USAF) and Section and Refs. The new supply computer at Hendon was attempting to bring some order out of this chaos but initially just seemed to confuse the issue. I seem to recall that a physical check had to be made between the old and new parts.
Some of the bits we got as spares were not up to spec. I recall being shown a spare para door which had stencilled on it 'Not to be fitted to operational aircraft'.
Thank you for confirming my very distant memory and your part in this story. My understanding, viewed through the prism of long ago memory, was that the relays in question looked the same and fitted perfectly. The problem for the suppliers and engineers was that we had three different schemes for part numbers. As usual there was a distinct lack of spares across the board ! And in the usual RAF manner very few of the engineers had any formal Hercules training at that time. We had Lockheed numbers, Federal Stock numbers (USAF) and Section and Refs. The new supply computer at Hendon was attempting to bring some order out of this chaos but initially just seemed to confuse the issue. I seem to recall that a physical check had to be made between the old and new parts.
Some of the bits we got as spares were not up to spec. I recall being shown a spare para door which had stencilled on it 'Not to be fitted to operational aircraft'.
smuj
Colerne crash; IIRC, at the same time as Tony B pulled the T Handle on No1, No2 wound down, so simultaneous double engine failure.
It happened on the day I was having my clearance medical at Lyneham - I think I was told later that the inner engine failure was attributed to inhalation of dust from the concrete that had been laid on the pan at Lyneham over the previous few months.
AA62
Good excuse to call Chris today!
It happened on the day I was having my clearance medical at Lyneham - I think I was told later that the inner engine failure was attributed to inhalation of dust from the concrete that had been laid on the pan at Lyneham over the previous few months.
AA62
Good excuse to call Chris today!
Brian,
hope Chris can add to the Bermuda story. The problem with all of the 'K' losses was that we had neither a CVR nor a 'black box'. So the investigators were severely hampered in their task. This lack of recording equipment was I believe a financial decision. Like all such bean counter's the person making this decision would of course not be at the sharp end at all !
In the end the 'K' asymmetric training losses were but a continuation of the crazy tradition that killed so many Meteor and Canberra crews.
Does the 'J' have a CVR and/or a 'black box' ?
hope Chris can add to the Bermuda story. The problem with all of the 'K' losses was that we had neither a CVR nor a 'black box'. So the investigators were severely hampered in their task. This lack of recording equipment was I believe a financial decision. Like all such bean counter's the person making this decision would of course not be at the sharp end at all !
In the end the 'K' asymmetric training losses were but a continuation of the crazy tradition that killed so many Meteor and Canberra crews.
Does the 'J' have a CVR and/or a 'black box' ?
Yes I know it is thread drift but at is amazing what you find when you are not looking for it ! This of course is one of the a/c the 'K' replaced. Nimbev at least should be happy. It shows my wife Beverley in front of the Blackburn Beverley at the now defunct Museum of Army Transport at Beverley. Game set and match !
Mal Drop,
according to my log book I first flew with F/L SV in April 88 on an MCT sortie. Must have been just after he came to 30. Did an ASI tanker det with him in Jan 89. First trip with S/L SV was July 90 on a LLXC. He must have become a Ftl Cdr around this time.
according to my log book I first flew with F/L SV in April 88 on an MCT sortie. Must have been just after he came to 30. Did an ASI tanker det with him in Jan 89. First trip with S/L SV was July 90 on a LLXC. He must have become a Ftl Cdr around this time.