Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
chickenlover,
I worked on Lightnings (92) and flew in the 'K' for nearly 30 years so I share in smudge's admiration for your superb pics. I do not think smudge would have enjoyed working on the 'Vimtin' ! It was a trial for all the tech trades.
I worked on Lightnings (92) and flew in the 'K' for nearly 30 years so I share in smudge's admiration for your superb pics. I do not think smudge would have enjoyed working on the 'Vimtin' ! It was a trial for all the tech trades.
AA62,
I started on the C130 out of Halton in 71 at Colerne, progressed to Lightning F6 of 56 Squadron in Cyprus and gradually worked my way back to Albert. Both aircraft played major parts in my career so to see them together is great. Having done at least one trip with Chickenlover I believe, I would have bribed a lot of people to be on the aircraft on the day he got those shots. Thanks again Chickenlover.
Smudge
I started on the C130 out of Halton in 71 at Colerne, progressed to Lightning F6 of 56 Squadron in Cyprus and gradually worked my way back to Albert. Both aircraft played major parts in my career so to see them together is great. Having done at least one trip with Chickenlover I believe, I would have bribed a lot of people to be on the aircraft on the day he got those shots. Thanks again Chickenlover.
Smudge
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Apart from a trip in one, to Norway to recover a Brit, I was never involved with Alberts, (mostly Bombers and Brits for me). However I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I must say you're certainly an intrepid bunch of guys. I did have a good friend, Steve Powell, who was an Air Eng on them in the '80's. Sadly he's no longer with us but he had a few tales to tell.
goudie,
Stay with it sir, I believe the best is yet to come. During its time in service the C130K was in to everything that happened. Intrepid might be a bit strong a word, but the crews I had the honour to support were all game to do the best they could, in the true tradition of the service. An amazing aircraft, some top quality crews all made for the fantastic history we are seeing brought to life on this thread. I was fortunate, as were others, to become an AGE and spend more than 6 years in their company, mainly operating my hammock, and experiencing some great people, great flying and unique locations. This thread is a fitting tribute to all of that. I'm sure all welcome your input.
Smudge
Stay with it sir, I believe the best is yet to come. During its time in service the C130K was in to everything that happened. Intrepid might be a bit strong a word, but the crews I had the honour to support were all game to do the best they could, in the true tradition of the service. An amazing aircraft, some top quality crews all made for the fantastic history we are seeing brought to life on this thread. I was fortunate, as were others, to become an AGE and spend more than 6 years in their company, mainly operating my hammock, and experiencing some great people, great flying and unique locations. This thread is a fitting tribute to all of that. I'm sure all welcome your input.
Smudge
smudge,
thanks for the clarification ref working on the Lightning. No doubt you will agree with my assertion that terrific a/c that it was it was hard work for the groundcrew.
thanks for the clarification ref working on the Lightning. No doubt you will agree with my assertion that terrific a/c that it was it was hard work for the groundcrew.
This pic is another part of the drop sequence as shown in my last one of the MSP on VR. The platform is well into rotation mode as you can clearly see the underside.
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Re#695, AA62, I am not sure if dropping small inflatables on PUB, the platform we did at JATE for SUMO (can't recall what we called it) and latterly the Babcock SBMP was more unreliable than PRIBAD and PURIBAD. I think the Babcock platform was good and solved many of the water impact problems. I don't recall ever having one tent peg.
We did have lots of issues with PURIBAD over the years. I attribute most of this to loss of skills due to not dropping it often enough in training. It was quirky in some respects. just as you solved one problem another popped up and bit you on the bum. I hope those in the know will have done the cross fertilisation to the Cunningham bang seat issue.
Re your MSP. You will recall how many were dropped each week in the Cold war days. I know my knowledge is no longer up to date but in my last year we often went months without dropping a single one. I know we never had it (or anything like it) on the J in my day. I would be interested to know when the last one was dropped.
back in 1998/9 the US dropped a type V using our 66fts RME with EPERU from a civilian 130 (Natick kind of stood by as observers).
In around 2003/4 we did do a one off drop of the 108" MSP from a K as a kind of prep for the J. I think I would have held up the red card if anyone was serious about dropping with RME from the J. MSP with EPERU and the TROC you spoke of was scary enough.
Lots of myths in this business. The heights and masses spoke of in earlier posts included. Could never have done the max weights from so low. The 2 parachute loads perhaps.
Looking forward to A400M. I love their version of ULLA from the publicity material they put out. Any takers? I note they have to put the wheels down when dropping from 1000Ft. Is that just in case the ground comes up!
We did have lots of issues with PURIBAD over the years. I attribute most of this to loss of skills due to not dropping it often enough in training. It was quirky in some respects. just as you solved one problem another popped up and bit you on the bum. I hope those in the know will have done the cross fertilisation to the Cunningham bang seat issue.
Re your MSP. You will recall how many were dropped each week in the Cold war days. I know my knowledge is no longer up to date but in my last year we often went months without dropping a single one. I know we never had it (or anything like it) on the J in my day. I would be interested to know when the last one was dropped.
back in 1998/9 the US dropped a type V using our 66fts RME with EPERU from a civilian 130 (Natick kind of stood by as observers).
In around 2003/4 we did do a one off drop of the 108" MSP from a K as a kind of prep for the J. I think I would have held up the red card if anyone was serious about dropping with RME from the J. MSP with EPERU and the TROC you spoke of was scary enough.
Lots of myths in this business. The heights and masses spoke of in earlier posts included. Could never have done the max weights from so low. The 2 parachute loads perhaps.
Looking forward to A400M. I love their version of ULLA from the publicity material they put out. Any takers? I note they have to put the wheels down when dropping from 1000Ft. Is that just in case the ground comes up!
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A layperson question if I may ...
Was there any operational need for RAF Albert to drop part assembled Bridging Sections for the Royal Engineers ... if so what were the challenges in doing so ?
Was there any operational need for RAF Albert to drop part assembled Bridging Sections for the Royal Engineers ... if so what were the challenges in doing so ?
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Bridge
yes Coff we had schemes for dropping The Air Portable Ferry Bridge on several MSPs. I saw them rigged and some elements dropped during the trials at JATE. I don't recall 47 ever dropping one in training. They mainly used cast vehicles or ballast loads of rubber blocks or tins of gravel.
As AA62 will have previously noted the mix of loads on any aircraft was complex. I think to drop one Bridge would have taken half the available fleet at a time when other things may have been going on. Dropping tons of 105 using AGE to the gun line would probably have been more of a priority. Rigging AGE was a pain. This is one area where the J would have been superior.
As AA62 will have previously noted the mix of loads on any aircraft was complex. I think to drop one Bridge would have taken half the available fleet at a time when other things may have been going on. Dropping tons of 105 using AGE to the gun line would probably have been more of a priority. Rigging AGE was a pain. This is one area where the J would have been superior.
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Last HSP?
My logbook notes an HSP drop onto Larkhill DZ on 11 Oct 1996. C130 C1 XV178.
I wonder if any HSPs were dropped after this date? The load was a Scimitar/Scorpion AFV
I wonder if any HSPs were dropped after this date? The load was a Scimitar/Scorpion AFV
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I guess that was the second to last TT or maybe even the last of the last. It would have been the diesel engine CVRT. We readied for a drop with the new Side frames in early 2000s but found that the was no allowance for wash away. (the frames would have twatted the ducks bill or the door) only to find that the same was true with the old steel Load protection frame. The design team could not do complex compound angle geometry. How you got away with it I don't know. I recall difficulties getting all of the Role equipment together and robbing the stores of prototype kit from BD (TRAMs Etc). Not sure if all the Steel Wire Ropes we had were in date and could not find the drawings or someone with the approvals to make new ones. I think it was canned before the drop took place. (may just have been a blessing). Stores had moved from Bicester to Stafford with so much going in the skip under the damn RAB initiative.
This backs up AA62 recollection of South Georgia. VX275 may have a better recollection than mine. Capt MB REME was the project officer. Nuff said.
The prototype HSP side frames served their secondary purpose well in rolling MSPs to determine CoG for many years before the CO insisted in a tidy up for some AOCs inspection. No one knew the true value of these odd bits of metal.
This backs up AA62 recollection of South Georgia. VX275 may have a better recollection than mine. Capt MB REME was the project officer. Nuff said.
The prototype HSP side frames served their secondary purpose well in rolling MSPs to determine CoG for many years before the CO insisted in a tidy up for some AOCs inspection. No one knew the true value of these odd bits of metal.
AA62 #707,
Totally agree sir, a nightmare for Groundcrew, but the hard work was always rewarded by those spectacular take offs etc. of course, Albert was no slouch when getting airborne. I well remember the post Base 3 Airtests from Colerne in the early 70s, when a Tactical take of was the norm rather than the exception, and empty, it really went up. I believe Flight Idle has a story on that (if she's still around)!!
As for all the dropping information, I'm "wowed" as they say. As an AGE it was rare to be aboard for such drops, I think I only ever witnessed one MSP drop in my time. That's probably because they were local trips. I also missed some of the bigger relief efforts, where dropping was the order of the day. In my time, a Khe San in to Sarajevo was very much the preferred method of delivery. Along with the NVG/SCINS insertion of SF, or the alternate HALO. But it's all fascinating stuff, and has to make us aware of what a capable aircraft the C130 is. Keep it going chaps, I know there's more out there.
Finally, I'm reading a book on the kindle at the moment, The Scramble Bell by David Coulter. Starts with 48 Squadron at Changi, and an amorous encounter. It contains one of the best descriptions I've ever read of the Alpha and Beta range operation of the T56/Hamilton Standard power package. I'm only around halfway through, and still trying to work out if the chap is ex RAF or what. Perhaps some wiser heads than me know of it.
Smudge
Totally agree sir, a nightmare for Groundcrew, but the hard work was always rewarded by those spectacular take offs etc. of course, Albert was no slouch when getting airborne. I well remember the post Base 3 Airtests from Colerne in the early 70s, when a Tactical take of was the norm rather than the exception, and empty, it really went up. I believe Flight Idle has a story on that (if she's still around)!!
As for all the dropping information, I'm "wowed" as they say. As an AGE it was rare to be aboard for such drops, I think I only ever witnessed one MSP drop in my time. That's probably because they were local trips. I also missed some of the bigger relief efforts, where dropping was the order of the day. In my time, a Khe San in to Sarajevo was very much the preferred method of delivery. Along with the NVG/SCINS insertion of SF, or the alternate HALO. But it's all fascinating stuff, and has to make us aware of what a capable aircraft the C130 is. Keep it going chaps, I know there's more out there.
Finally, I'm reading a book on the kindle at the moment, The Scramble Bell by David Coulter. Starts with 48 Squadron at Changi, and an amorous encounter. It contains one of the best descriptions I've ever read of the Alpha and Beta range operation of the T56/Hamilton Standard power package. I'm only around halfway through, and still trying to work out if the chap is ex RAF or what. Perhaps some wiser heads than me know of it.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 5th Jul 2014 at 19:52.
This pic (my copy of a JATE original I think) is to complement the last pic I posted which showed the MSP well into the rotation phase of the drop. This is an outside view of that inside view. Here you can see the anti swing parachute partially deployed and about to perform as intended. Once had a Maldrop when the anti swing chute failed to perform. Initially the finger of suspicion was pointed at myself and the army checker. However it soon became apparent that the mouth closure ties on the anti swing had been doubled up and it would never have opened in a month of mondays ! Turned out the lady parachute packer was having boy friend troubles and her mind was not exactly focused on the packing. They had to inspect every chute she had been near. Not a popular lass.
Just to continue the Volant Rodeo story, and a reminder that without 'menders' like these we would not have any tales to recount. This is the detachment line up for the drive by of the general. As well as the flying part of the competition there was also a maintenance element. A team inspected every a/c deducting points for all manner of things. On the day of the inspection I had 'umpired' on a C160 (but that is another story) so volunteered to help clean up our 'K'. Due to my technical background I was allocated the task of digging the crud out of the tie down receptacles, which I did with my survival knife !. It was very hot in there and I cursed the unknown person who had elected to change the US type cargo floor to match our system!
dragartist,
agree your comments ref dropping AGE (no smudge we were not disposing of you chaps). It stands for Auto Gravity Extraction. I always regarded a successful drop here as an act of God, especially spilt stick. An extractor parachute allowed the aft restraint barrier to open and as the a/c climbed (gently !) the load rolled out. Not unusual for the captain to level out part way through the sequence as he compensated for the trim change. This could result in the load stopping or even move back up the cargo compartment which could make life interesting.
agree your comments ref dropping AGE (no smudge we were not disposing of you chaps). It stands for Auto Gravity Extraction. I always regarded a successful drop here as an act of God, especially spilt stick. An extractor parachute allowed the aft restraint barrier to open and as the a/c climbed (gently !) the load rolled out. Not unusual for the captain to level out part way through the sequence as he compensated for the trim change. This could result in the load stopping or even move back up the cargo compartment which could make life interesting.
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Following on from the 'Interesting places ' theme;
On finals into Quito to visit the Ex-Staish,JB.
Sadly the name of this strip has long leaked away - Mekele ? anyway, the morning wave about to launch delivering Bob Geldof's grain.
First time I ever landed on a red and white runway-quick gas & go at Thule before heading north to Alert
Minsk during one of the Stockholm ? treaty flights-fascinating trip as this was before glasnost and the wall coming down. Couldn't work out why the boss wanted to have his picture taken outside a government building downtown until he told us it was his V-force days target. Sobering stuff. What was less sober was the evening out drinking with our Soviet AF hosts-copious amounts of Vodka and very dubious champagne and some hilarious shenanigans with some KGB ladies.
On finals into Quito to visit the Ex-Staish,JB.
Sadly the name of this strip has long leaked away - Mekele ? anyway, the morning wave about to launch delivering Bob Geldof's grain.
First time I ever landed on a red and white runway-quick gas & go at Thule before heading north to Alert
Minsk during one of the Stockholm ? treaty flights-fascinating trip as this was before glasnost and the wall coming down. Couldn't work out why the boss wanted to have his picture taken outside a government building downtown until he told us it was his V-force days target. Sobering stuff. What was less sober was the evening out drinking with our Soviet AF hosts-copious amounts of Vodka and very dubious champagne and some hilarious shenanigans with some KGB ladies.
