Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
First of two pics taken when I was on 47 at Fairford. El Adem (Libya, for the younger reader) detachment. Taken by one of the groundcrew who wanted to see an airdrop. This is 1 Ton ME (Manually ejected) and the containers were pushed out by the Air Despatchers. As you can see we are all wearing the regulation hard hats and B7 chutes.
Hatchet 130,
I was on an 'interesting' formation change whilst airborne. We were a four ship practising for some flypast or other when the leader took us into cloud. As we lost visual with him and everyone else we encountered 'turbulence'.
When we emerged from the cloud we were now on the opposite side of the gaggle (no longer worthy of the name formation). The 'turbulence' was undoubtedly the airflow from another very close 'K'. The subsequent debrief was as they say, animated.
Did all the practices for the GW1 London flypast but on the day mother nature intervened !
I was on an 'interesting' formation change whilst airborne. We were a four ship practising for some flypast or other when the leader took us into cloud. As we lost visual with him and everyone else we encountered 'turbulence'.
When we emerged from the cloud we were now on the opposite side of the gaggle (no longer worthy of the name formation). The 'turbulence' was undoubtedly the airflow from another very close 'K'. The subsequent debrief was as they say, animated.
Did all the practices for the GW1 London flypast but on the day mother nature intervened !
Mal Drop,
no doubt you were as disappointed as I was. I was in the lead a/c. Never did get to fly over London at a 'sensible' height, alas.
no doubt you were as disappointed as I was. I was in the lead a/c. Never did get to fly over London at a 'sensible' height, alas.
I was in the frame with the Inertial Navigation platform as I knew how to work it (in those halcyon pre-GPS days). And yes, it was a bit gutting to call the flypast off but I did go to the memorial service at St. Paul's in 1996 where her Maj unveiled the plaque in the crypt.
Smudge
That was exactly how I heard the story all those years ago, and it still makes my blood boil. OC Eng deserved not only to be sacked, but also to be treated to a bit of corrective behind the bikeshed admonishment.
It seems all other than that 'professional' behaved exactly as they should have done....
Some people do not deserve any position of authority; hopefully, that chap never held one again; albeit, I suspect he was 'admin moved' without proper action taken.
I trusted my GEs absolutely; if they weren't happy to fly, I would not do so, nor indeed in later days, put anyone else in that difficult position.
As I alluded to earlier, I was the subject of attempted bullying to fly once (and, although a newbie at the time, was quite ugly enough/bolshie to stand up for myself) when my nav, who had been listening to the conversation on speakerphone, decided to 'jump in'. Before the idiot (ops bloke) had a chance to dig himself in any further, he learned that we would not be taking his 'advice' and would wait for a suitably-qualified team to survey the damage.....my nav.....OC Ops (KF, and a bloody good bloke he was too) was incensed.....
I could quite imagine the pressure brought to bear on your captain at the time.
Regards
That was exactly how I heard the story all those years ago, and it still makes my blood boil. OC Eng deserved not only to be sacked, but also to be treated to a bit of corrective behind the bikeshed admonishment.
It seems all other than that 'professional' behaved exactly as they should have done....
Some people do not deserve any position of authority; hopefully, that chap never held one again; albeit, I suspect he was 'admin moved' without proper action taken.
I trusted my GEs absolutely; if they weren't happy to fly, I would not do so, nor indeed in later days, put anyone else in that difficult position.
As I alluded to earlier, I was the subject of attempted bullying to fly once (and, although a newbie at the time, was quite ugly enough/bolshie to stand up for myself) when my nav, who had been listening to the conversation on speakerphone, decided to 'jump in'. Before the idiot (ops bloke) had a chance to dig himself in any further, he learned that we would not be taking his 'advice' and would wait for a suitably-qualified team to survey the damage.....my nav.....OC Ops (KF, and a bloody good bloke he was too) was incensed.....
I could quite imagine the pressure brought to bear on your captain at the time.
Regards
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Having read that Smudge, it is disgusting, what is the point in begrudgingly sending out a structural expert and then Lyneham ignore his findings, that just makes no logical sense whatsoever, in fact it astounds me that having sent someone out they blatently ignore the facts and his report confirming them and the actions required to get it home.... I'm surprised when the crack started propagating you never diverted in to the closest airport that could take you.... You can knock the Civilian system but if a Licenced Engineer grounds something and states why, it would be a Brave Licenced Engineer that would override it as they would need to show just cause to do it.
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Last edited by NutLoose; 8th Jul 2014 at 21:15.
Bunta, Nutty,
Thanks for both of your comments. In both of my structural problems, there was a common thread, and it wasn't OC Eng Wing. Like you, the crass ignorance shown to the very man who they had sent, as an "independent" expert was beyond belief. I will close the Portugal jobby for you with some information, that was given to me by the a senior Marshalls manager some months after the event, as he presented me with my cracked sidewall memento. Marshalls of Cambridge (MOC) were at the time the UK structural authority on RAF C130s, and, our structural man had copied them in with the diagrams and details, and suggested recovery actions. As was his normal practice. At least four hours before our departure from Porto, MOC sent recovery instructions to Lyneham to concur with the minimum repairs required to make the aircraft "fit to fly" back to Lyneham. Those instructions were "sat on", by someone in the RAF system at Lyneham. Allowing us to get airborne for Lyneham, in ignorance of the fact. I believe it was the later discovery of that, that created the postings. As I've previously said, no one in my reporting chain ever asked me a question about the incident, nor did they need to. I rather suspect that the paper trail, once looked at, exposed where the poor standards lay. I'm hoping that in relating these events, that its accepted I am simply relating the incident, as seen from my lowly point of view. Generally speaking the support from Lyneham was always first class when we had problems down route.
Smudge
Thanks for both of your comments. In both of my structural problems, there was a common thread, and it wasn't OC Eng Wing. Like you, the crass ignorance shown to the very man who they had sent, as an "independent" expert was beyond belief. I will close the Portugal jobby for you with some information, that was given to me by the a senior Marshalls manager some months after the event, as he presented me with my cracked sidewall memento. Marshalls of Cambridge (MOC) were at the time the UK structural authority on RAF C130s, and, our structural man had copied them in with the diagrams and details, and suggested recovery actions. As was his normal practice. At least four hours before our departure from Porto, MOC sent recovery instructions to Lyneham to concur with the minimum repairs required to make the aircraft "fit to fly" back to Lyneham. Those instructions were "sat on", by someone in the RAF system at Lyneham. Allowing us to get airborne for Lyneham, in ignorance of the fact. I believe it was the later discovery of that, that created the postings. As I've previously said, no one in my reporting chain ever asked me a question about the incident, nor did they need to. I rather suspect that the paper trail, once looked at, exposed where the poor standards lay. I'm hoping that in relating these events, that its accepted I am simply relating the incident, as seen from my lowly point of view. Generally speaking the support from Lyneham was always first class when we had problems down route.
Smudge
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I am surprised they never moved the Flight Sgt on from Ops, he seems to have forgotten that he is there to serve the operation of the fleet, not to hinder it through his attitude, hopefully he is no longer serving, as for the O/C Eng, I knew one EngO who was transferred to an MT section from an operational squadron! Perhaps that or a desk where he couldn't do any more harm... Can Service personnel now get prosecuted for manslaughter such as can happen in Civi street?
Nutloose,
This all happened back in the early 90s, and all involved have like myself now left the service. I'm not sure how the law stands these days. I would hope in these more enlightened times, the situation would never arise.
Smudge
This all happened back in the early 90s, and all involved have like myself now left the service. I'm not sure how the law stands these days. I would hope in these more enlightened times, the situation would never arise.
Smudge
Second in the El Adem ME airdrop sequence. 'Load gone' ! We used to have the Lord Trophy competition there in those days.
I have experienced more than one instance of attempted bullying (a suitable term I think) by various agencies during my service career. As with smudge the answer always was a solid professional knowledge coupled with integrity.
As my experience and rank increased it became easier to deal with this sort of thing, but I always told my 'troops' to report any such attempts to me ASAP and I would deal with it. Once I became a Spec Aircrew S/L (service ceiling, bit of street cred and lots of 'K' experience) I even enjoyed dealing with these people.
Sometimes you would get a phone call asking us to do something. My reply was always to send me a signal. If I learned anything from my law studies it was 'everything in writing'. Telephone calls could so often be 'misunderstood' !
Some of our non Hercules readers may wonder why we trusted our G/E's so much. The answer is they serviced the a/c and then flew with us and thus shared the risks.
As my experience and rank increased it became easier to deal with this sort of thing, but I always told my 'troops' to report any such attempts to me ASAP and I would deal with it. Once I became a Spec Aircrew S/L (service ceiling, bit of street cred and lots of 'K' experience) I even enjoyed dealing with these people.
Sometimes you would get a phone call asking us to do something. My reply was always to send me a signal. If I learned anything from my law studies it was 'everything in writing'. Telephone calls could so often be 'misunderstood' !
Some of our non Hercules readers may wonder why we trusted our G/E's so much. The answer is they serviced the a/c and then flew with us and thus shared the risks.
I was once instructed by a Wing Commander (eager to impress the Brigadier who was present at the briefing) to extend the Para Cut-off Time on a DZ somewhere hot and not far north of the equator.
The short answer was 'No'.
When pressed, the longer answer was 'No Sir'.
The short answer was 'No'.
When pressed, the longer answer was 'No Sir'.
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I've had some memories rekindled reading this thread, best time of my 23 year career was the time i did on A Line which became 47 / 70 Eng Sqn.
Had some great times down route over the years and got a junior Air Eng some experience in changing a Prop in Bardufoss after it blew it's Gitz seal to pieces and dumped all it's oil. After landing on 3 enignes, oil all over the wing and tail following a call home the words ''just throw some oil in it and we'll get going'' were heard. Being a sooty i said ''No, we need a new prop''. The GE (name escapes me now) was asked for his opinion ''I'm a fairy, he's a sooty, if he says it fu&%£d it's fu&%£d, find a hotel''. First and only time i ever needed a heater to get the seals flexible so we could fit them, -30, snowing, no hangar big enough for the frame and a crane driver who didn't speak english. All part of the fun
Had one where we had to take the overhead panels apart every morning to prove the engine fire warning system worked as the switch was goosed. To get to it we had to drop the overhead panels out of the way to free up the T-handles and test switch panel then jump it, turn power on so we had sirens and flashing lights, kill the poer and rebuild the flightdeck. It was fine at Waddo but rather hot and uncomfortable in Crete and Bahrain.
I'm sure i've got photo's somewhere from MPA, South Georgia, South Sandwich islands i'll do some digging.
Keep the stories coming
Had some great times down route over the years and got a junior Air Eng some experience in changing a Prop in Bardufoss after it blew it's Gitz seal to pieces and dumped all it's oil. After landing on 3 enignes, oil all over the wing and tail following a call home the words ''just throw some oil in it and we'll get going'' were heard. Being a sooty i said ''No, we need a new prop''. The GE (name escapes me now) was asked for his opinion ''I'm a fairy, he's a sooty, if he says it fu&%£d it's fu&%£d, find a hotel''. First and only time i ever needed a heater to get the seals flexible so we could fit them, -30, snowing, no hangar big enough for the frame and a crane driver who didn't speak english. All part of the fun
Had one where we had to take the overhead panels apart every morning to prove the engine fire warning system worked as the switch was goosed. To get to it we had to drop the overhead panels out of the way to free up the T-handles and test switch panel then jump it, turn power on so we had sirens and flashing lights, kill the poer and rebuild the flightdeck. It was fine at Waddo but rather hot and uncomfortable in Crete and Bahrain.
I'm sure i've got photo's somewhere from MPA, South Georgia, South Sandwich islands i'll do some digging.
Keep the stories coming
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Todays offering - A day out in town with the' Green Barrows'- chatting with Hatchett at Ken's funeral reminded me of another grand day out. Boss wanted me to go along with the Sqn Barrows Rep and see " what they get up to when you auth them "
There followed some very average formation flying by moi until the proper job got in the seat for the run in and fly through at Buck House.
Taken from the Hawk 'Whipper in' taken on one of the few times I was transiting through the correct position
MP back in the driving seat so I could take pictures
Not my pic-families day break
There followed some very average formation flying by moi until the proper job got in the seat for the run in and fly through at Buck House.
Taken from the Hawk 'Whipper in' taken on one of the few times I was transiting through the correct position
MP back in the driving seat so I could take pictures
Not my pic-families day break
chickenlover,
more great pics, but very green at your flight over London. Did the RIAT at Fairford as a formation including a tanker. We were not allowed to be 'joined up' as I assume you were not. Our drivers airframe thought that joined up to the tanker was the safe option as all the familiar visual cues were present but their airships decreed otherwise.
No doubt the crowd thought we had cocked up !
Pic of our formation.
more great pics, but very green at your flight over London. Did the RIAT at Fairford as a formation including a tanker. We were not allowed to be 'joined up' as I assume you were not. Our drivers airframe thought that joined up to the tanker was the safe option as all the familiar visual cues were present but their airships decreed otherwise.
No doubt the crowd thought we had cocked up !
Pic of our formation.
