Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
upgently,
great pics of our nicest colour scheme. Ah Kathmandu. Did several trips there. I have a pic somewhere which will appear in due course. Today is a continuation of the airdrop theme. 'Load gone' could well be the title for this. Hopefully the next one will stir Brian's memory and encourage him to post his pics. The DZ is I think Kahang Kahang but hopefully Brian will remember.
great pics of our nicest colour scheme. Ah Kathmandu. Did several trips there. I have a pic somewhere which will appear in due course. Today is a continuation of the airdrop theme. 'Load gone' could well be the title for this. Hopefully the next one will stir Brian's memory and encourage him to post his pics. The DZ is I think Kahang Kahang but hopefully Brian will remember.
Sorry AA62 - as explained above things are a bit tetchy this end - hope to hear about our planning before departing tomorrow to Romsey for No2 son's wedding. Looking forward to No1 son's best man speech, should include lots of in-jokes as both bride and groom are ATCOs at Swanwick.
I really have very very few slides from those halcyon days - perhaps Test Pilot son can explain to me in simple words how to make slides into photos and put on here. Mind you he hates PPrune so he may not help
.
Looks like Kangar Kahang - I still have the maps we used for the low-level route we flew to get there.
I really have very very few slides from those halcyon days - perhaps Test Pilot son can explain to me in simple words how to make slides into photos and put on here. Mind you he hates PPrune so he may not help
.Looks like Kangar Kahang - I still have the maps we used for the low-level route we flew to get there.
Brian,
understand about your priorities. What I meant in my clumsy way is that you may confirm or otherwise my recollection of the DZ. The next few in the series should interest you.
understand about your priorities. What I meant in my clumsy way is that you may confirm or otherwise my recollection of the DZ. The next few in the series should interest you.
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AA62 ...
With our good friend Upgently temporarily away for the moment ... a quick question if I may ... @ Post #494, am I correct in assuming that the airfield is Tribhuvan (so named in 1964). It would seem to be a concrete surface ... if so ... Tribhuvan was made a concrete surface in 1957 ? The dates seem to fit ... or was the airfield in question one of the more "interesting" sloping strips that I understand Kathmandu "enjoyed" back then/even now (like Lukla [aka Tenzing-Hillary] Airport ... with it's 1,509' strip and a 12% gradient @ 9,383' AMSL
) 
Kathmandu/Tribhuvan 4,390' AMSL ... I wonder if RAF Albert has Landed/Taken-Off at higher airfield altitudes
With our good friend Upgently temporarily away for the moment ... a quick question if I may ... @ Post #494, am I correct in assuming that the airfield is Tribhuvan (so named in 1964). It would seem to be a concrete surface ... if so ... Tribhuvan was made a concrete surface in 1957 ? The dates seem to fit ... or was the airfield in question one of the more "interesting" sloping strips that I understand Kathmandu "enjoyed" back then/even now (like Lukla [aka Tenzing-Hillary] Airport ... with it's 1,509' strip and a 12% gradient @ 9,383' AMSL
) Kathmandu/Tribhuvan 4,390' AMSL ... I wonder if RAF Albert has Landed/Taken-Off at higher airfield altitudes
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 25th Jun 2014 at 16:00.
Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta springs to mind at 5,327' AMSL. That provides a cue for a story about a co-pilot (NATO reporting name OSLO - and yes, I know there were a few with that descriptor) playing footy at Nairobi. He wondered why he got tired so quickly and asked a friendly crewmate who explained that he was quite high up and the air was a smidge thinner. He then (apparently) asked how high above sea level he was when he had a kick-about at the next destination, he was on the beach at Mombasa at the time.
I would imagine that at 9,228' AMSL, The old Quito airfield would be quite high for Albert's adventures.
I would imagine that at 9,228' AMSL, The old Quito airfield would be quite high for Albert's adventures.
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I've been to Kathmandu, but some higher elevation fields that I took Albert to include:
Eskişehir Air Base, Turkey : 8461’ AMSL
King Khaled Air Base, Khamis Mushait, Saudi Arabia : 6459’ AMSL
Hill Air Force Base, Utah, USA : 4789’ AMSL
I haven't made the Quito trip Coffman but as an ex-Lyneham Staish got the Air Attache gig there I think he must have wangled an Albert in at some stage.
I'm afraid Nairobi is probably as high as I've operated from with Harare at 4,887' as a runner-up. Lowest would probably be Andros at 5' on the Cocoa Beach det or Amsterdam at -11' on a Euro trainer (those were the days).
I'm afraid Nairobi is probably as high as I've operated from with Harare at 4,887' as a runner-up. Lowest would probably be Andros at 5' on the Cocoa Beach det or Amsterdam at -11' on a Euro trainer (those were the days).
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Many thanks Mal Drop
Let's take ExAscoteer's claim for Eskişehir Air Base, Turkey @ 8461’ AMSL ... and see where we go from there
Out of interest ... how did RAF Albert generally cope with high elevation/hot airfields ... could you still go off at Max AUW @ 8000' AMSL ?
Any takers for lower than -11' BMSL ... quite a bit of scope for RAF Albert there I would have thought
Just to complete the picture ... ignoring circumnavigations for the moment ... I guess we should record the furthest West RAF Albert has traveled (flying East to West that is)
Let's take ExAscoteer's claim for Eskişehir Air Base, Turkey @ 8461’ AMSL ... and see where we go from there
Out of interest ... how did RAF Albert generally cope with high elevation/hot airfields ... could you still go off at Max AUW @ 8000' AMSL ?
Any takers for lower than -11' BMSL ... quite a bit of scope for RAF Albert there I would have thought
Just to complete the picture ... ignoring circumnavigations for the moment ... I guess we should record the furthest West RAF Albert has traveled (flying East to West that is)
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This is why, during Operation JURAL going in and out of Dhahran, we tended to operate at night.
With hot and high you could rapidly become WAT limited.
Another limitation that an awful lot of people forgot about was the nosewheel limiting speed of 139kts - above which it wasn't guaranteed that the nosewheel tyres would stay attached. Of course this limit really refers to TAS and not IAS.
On one occasion, going in to Khamis Mushait this limit equated to an IAS of around 125kts.
However it gets worse. For handling considerations you didn't select Ground Idle above 130kts (TAS) on the landing roll nor Reverse above 115kts (in case a prop hung up at the Low Pitch Stop). On this particular day at Khamis this equated to 114kts IAS and 101kts IAS.
All well and good, but at max landing weight of 135,000 lbs your Vat was 124kts IAS which equated (on this day) to 142kts TAS!
In other words you had to be careful and hold the nosewheel off for a while as well as delaying the throttle selection below Flight Idle.
Last edited by ExAscoteer; 25th Jun 2014 at 20:02.
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I must admit I was surprised to find that Eskişehir was as high.
I went in there in mid March when it was cold (snow still on the ground), so performance wasn't an issue.
The approach was actual IF with a fairly ropey TACAN which was interesting, but that's another story.
I went in there in mid March when it was cold (snow still on the ground), so performance wasn't an issue.
The approach was actual IF with a fairly ropey TACAN which was interesting, but that's another story.
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Many thanks ExAscoteer ...
Sounds like plenty of Wiz Wheel action prior to take-off/landing under such conditions ... and sharp eyes on the numbers
Sounds like plenty of Wiz Wheel action prior to take-off/landing under such conditions ... and sharp eyes on the numbers
Hot and High
Oh dear gentlemen, I misunderstood your thrust, if you see what I mean. This GE, of considerable age and experience, shows how to deal with Alberts high and bloody freezing air conditioning, (do they still measure calorific value in Watts ?) returning from Hungary on a JACIG as I remember. He looks happy with the chain tensioners for comfort. We did have a good time though.
On then, with performance issues then chaps. I still think that the lowest I saw Albert was the previously reported, double fuse plug blow. I could actually jump onto the RH wing tip from a small adjacent pile of blown sand Seriously though Kai Tak must have been pretty adjacent to sea level ?
Smudge
On then, with performance issues then chaps. I still think that the lowest I saw Albert was the previously reported, double fuse plug blow. I could actually jump onto the RH wing tip from a small adjacent pile of blown sand
Seriously though Kai Tak must have been pretty adjacent to sea level ?Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 25th Jun 2014 at 20:27.
I recall a whole bunch of fun flying in an airdrop competition in Reno against a USAF Sqn from Texas (they wanted to escape the Bible belt for a while and kindly planned an excursion of several days at Las Vegas Jr.). My crew (the comedy crew, which I got to pick as repayment for being the det Proj O) was not scheduled to fly the comp but the OC decided on the day that we were the 'chosen ones' to fly as Brit 2. Having heard that our other crews dropped long and rocked up early at several TPs on the practices, I looked at the exercise area elevation and as if by magic it was all around 4,500' AMSL.
Having a spare piece of purest white and unadulterated string I was able to quickly mark it up for the unfeasibly huge USAF low-level charts and increased TAS at 210 KIAS at that altitude (we would be knobbled for any IAS deviations) and a bit of fag packet number crunching allowed me to guesstimate that the weight of the Harness Packs might need to be significantly tweaked upwards by our 47 AD chums to allow for the thinner air (being the end of August it was also hotter than Satan's fiery underpants).
The end result was the only Bullseye of the competition and that our timing at checkpoints was spot on which meant we took first place out of the four aircraft and gained an overall win for the RAF against the USAF (on their turf and using their charts - 1:250,000 if I remember correctly, a scale which taxed the origami skills more than a little).
Having secured the reputation of the Sqn, the rest of the detachment was a bit of a blur to be honest. I'm guessing that not much of that sort of thing goes on in these more austere days...
Having a spare piece of purest white and unadulterated string I was able to quickly mark it up for the unfeasibly huge USAF low-level charts and increased TAS at 210 KIAS at that altitude (we would be knobbled for any IAS deviations) and a bit of fag packet number crunching allowed me to guesstimate that the weight of the Harness Packs might need to be significantly tweaked upwards by our 47 AD chums to allow for the thinner air (being the end of August it was also hotter than Satan's fiery underpants).
The end result was the only Bullseye of the competition and that our timing at checkpoints was spot on which meant we took first place out of the four aircraft and gained an overall win for the RAF against the USAF (on their turf and using their charts - 1:250,000 if I remember correctly, a scale which taxed the origami skills more than a little).
Having secured the reputation of the Sqn, the rest of the detachment was a bit of a blur to be honest. I'm guessing that not much of that sort of thing goes on in these more austere days...
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Mal Drop ... I do hope your invaluable piece of high tech Nav kit has been preserved for posterity somewhere
Talking of being preserved ... Smudge ... that Parker looks to have a 12 TOG Rating
Talking of being preserved ... Smudge ... that Parker looks to have a 12 TOG Rating
Coff,
At least 12 TOG. I know I never left home without mine, and that includes trips to Africa in summer. At altitude in the "boudoir" area of Albert, even the arctic standard sleeping bag required support like this, whilst operating ones hammock. As I remember our hosts on that trip had plied us with rather large portions of their speciality fruit schnapps, every day we were there. I suspect my comrade in arms didn't need his hammock, somehow the standard seats were an easier option at times
Smudge
At least 12 TOG. I know I never left home without mine, and that includes trips to Africa in summer. At altitude in the "boudoir" area of Albert, even the arctic standard sleeping bag required support like this, whilst operating ones hammock. As I remember our hosts on that trip had plied us with rather large portions of their speciality fruit schnapps, every day we were there. I suspect my comrade in arms didn't need his hammock, somehow the standard seats were an easier option at times
Smudge
Ethiopia:
Addis Ababa - 7625 ft
Mekele - 7320 ft
There were others used at various times during the famine relief ops. My most challenging was Gondar (about 5000 ft up and 4 to 5000 ft long) - a one way dirt strip that finished up as a track down the main street of the town. We got used to it, and by the second week the most worrying thing was the road journey down to the airport at Addis!
I was on an airland det, but I know some of the airdrops were done much higher up. How about - who has dropped on the highest DZ?
Addis Ababa - 7625 ft
Mekele - 7320 ft
There were others used at various times during the famine relief ops. My most challenging was Gondar (about 5000 ft up and 4 to 5000 ft long) - a one way dirt strip that finished up as a track down the main street of the town. We got used to it, and by the second week the most worrying thing was the road journey down to the airport at Addis!
I was on an airland det, but I know some of the airdrops were done much higher up. How about - who has dropped on the highest DZ?