Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
CM .. some info here ..
https://www.facebook.com/JADTEU/app_214309071924895
"The Medium Stressed Platform (MSP) Reefed Mains Extraction parachute system enables us to drop 2x 18000lb loads as low as 550ft from Hercules C Mk1 or C Mk3 aircraft. The Heavy Stressed Platform (HSP) is used to drop engineer equipment up to 30000lb from a minimum drop height of 700ft, and a single platform can be carried in a Hercules C mk1. "
and a google on Hercules HSP drops (HSP = Heavy Stressed Platform) will find even more ..
Aussies dropping something a tad large ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTHGHgqQsx0
https://www.facebook.com/JADTEU/app_214309071924895
"The Medium Stressed Platform (MSP) Reefed Mains Extraction parachute system enables us to drop 2x 18000lb loads as low as 550ft from Hercules C Mk1 or C Mk3 aircraft. The Heavy Stressed Platform (HSP) is used to drop engineer equipment up to 30000lb from a minimum drop height of 700ft, and a single platform can be carried in a Hercules C mk1. "
and a google on Hercules HSP drops (HSP = Heavy Stressed Platform) will find even more ..
Aussies dropping something a tad large ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTHGHgqQsx0
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ULLA (Ultra Low Level Airdrop) was much more fun. From memory up to 14 tons on two platforms extracted whilst flying along at 15 feet with wheels down. Trim change was significant ! Much more fun at night......... ;-)
Last edited by Stretchwell; 2nd Jul 2014 at 17:19.
OK chaps,
As our attention has turned to dropping things from Albert. And we seem to have some very knowledgeable operators contributing, I wonder if anyone can solve this one from my walk with my fellow ex AGE yesterday. He related this story;
It seems, as rumour had it, that an RAF team were taking part in an Air drop exercise in the USA (could it have been Volant Rodeo or similar), they had two participating crews and a reserve, plus the ground support of course. So they had been doing the work up to the day of the big drop competition and all was going well. Meanwhile, out at the main DZ the safety officer, who had seen it all, over the years, had as he always did, parked his station wagon on the centre of the DZ, where never once in his experience had a load landed, despite it being the actual target. On the day both aircraft were readied and the fully loaded MSPs were set up in each aircraft. Unfortunately one of the two main crews pulled out through illness (it's rumoured), leaving the reserve crew to fly the second aircraft in the competition. We all know what's coming, the reserve crew achieved maximum points by hitting the turning points on time, and putting their MSP smack bang in the middle of the DZ. It made a mess of the DZ Officers nice car, apparently.
So, my questions for today are, did it happen ? And is my fellow ex GE correct that there was a photograph around of the said vehicle with its newly added MSP? And once again, if there is a photograph, any chance of posting it ? Perhaps if anyone who was on that det remembers the incident he could explain it better than I have, you have to excuse me, these are the ravings of a couple of old blokes, after a pint or two. Cheers in advance to anyone who can help out. Judging by the breadth of coverage through the years, someone will know.
Smudge
As our attention has turned to dropping things from Albert. And we seem to have some very knowledgeable operators contributing, I wonder if anyone can solve this one from my walk with my fellow ex AGE yesterday. He related this story;
It seems, as rumour had it, that an RAF team were taking part in an Air drop exercise in the USA (could it have been Volant Rodeo or similar), they had two participating crews and a reserve, plus the ground support of course. So they had been doing the work up to the day of the big drop competition and all was going well. Meanwhile, out at the main DZ the safety officer, who had seen it all, over the years, had as he always did, parked his station wagon on the centre of the DZ, where never once in his experience had a load landed, despite it being the actual target. On the day both aircraft were readied and the fully loaded MSPs were set up in each aircraft. Unfortunately one of the two main crews pulled out through illness (it's rumoured), leaving the reserve crew to fly the second aircraft in the competition. We all know what's coming, the reserve crew achieved maximum points by hitting the turning points on time, and putting their MSP smack bang in the middle of the DZ. It made a mess of the DZ Officers nice car, apparently.
So, my questions for today are, did it happen ? And is my fellow ex GE correct that there was a photograph around of the said vehicle with its newly added MSP? And once again, if there is a photograph, any chance of posting it ? Perhaps if anyone who was on that det remembers the incident he could explain it better than I have, you have to excuse me, these are the ravings of a couple of old blokes, after a pint or two. Cheers in advance to anyone who can help out. Judging by the breadth of coverage through the years, someone will know.
Smudge
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Many thanks chaps for the explanations
I bet it was ... and at low level in the dark 
Originally Posted by Stretchwell
Trim change was significant !
Omega V6,
Thanks for that. I suspect the windscreen and the picture in STS is what my old comrade had in mind. So likely if we have any contributors who worked for STS, they could embellish us a little more. I can't find a thing on the interweb about it.
Smudge
Thanks for that. I suspect the windscreen and the picture in STS is what my old comrade had in mind. So likely if we have any contributors who worked for STS, they could embellish us a little more. I can't find a thing on the interweb about it.
Smudge
Coff,
As an ALM I did tours as an instructor, trials and development and as an examiner as well as a 'gash shag' on a squadron. I think I have dropped most things from the 'K' during my time. I was saving some pics for the right part in my tale but as this has cropped up now I will contribute but the pics will come later. The heaviest single item I have dropped was a grader which weighed 35000 lbs all up on the HSP (Heavy Stressed Platform) platform. The heaviest load I have dropped on a single run was 42000 lbs. This was 3 ULLA (Ultra Low Level= 10 ft ish) platforms each weighing 14000 lbs. Because of the extreme trim changes as the load departed it was not uncommon for the main u/c to kiss the DZ. I could bore for Britain on airdrop as I specialised in it and loved it. I may do so when we get to the pic sequence ! Unless whilst we are in airdrop mode you would prefer me to continue with the pics/tales.
As for the tale of the airdrop hitting the comms truck on the DZ, it is true. The USAF DZ party left their vehicle on the impact point. No one ever hits that do they ? Besides the USAF were dropping from 1200 ft whist we dropped reefed mains MSP from 600ft. One swing and it is on the ground. It hit and crushed the vehicle as it landed as intended. The USAF were more concerned about the comms Kit than about the vehicle !
I was on that Volant Rodeo detachment as an umpire, my second VR in that role. Pics and tales will arrive in their turn, but here is one for now. This is one of our MSP drops on that VR but not the one of which we speak.
As an ALM I did tours as an instructor, trials and development and as an examiner as well as a 'gash shag' on a squadron. I think I have dropped most things from the 'K' during my time. I was saving some pics for the right part in my tale but as this has cropped up now I will contribute but the pics will come later. The heaviest single item I have dropped was a grader which weighed 35000 lbs all up on the HSP (Heavy Stressed Platform) platform. The heaviest load I have dropped on a single run was 42000 lbs. This was 3 ULLA (Ultra Low Level= 10 ft ish) platforms each weighing 14000 lbs. Because of the extreme trim changes as the load departed it was not uncommon for the main u/c to kiss the DZ. I could bore for Britain on airdrop as I specialised in it and loved it. I may do so when we get to the pic sequence ! Unless whilst we are in airdrop mode you would prefer me to continue with the pics/tales.
As for the tale of the airdrop hitting the comms truck on the DZ, it is true. The USAF DZ party left their vehicle on the impact point. No one ever hits that do they ? Besides the USAF were dropping from 1200 ft whist we dropped reefed mains MSP from 600ft. One swing and it is on the ground. It hit and crushed the vehicle as it landed as intended. The USAF were more concerned about the comms Kit than about the vehicle !
I was on that Volant Rodeo detachment as an umpire, my second VR in that role. Pics and tales will arrive in their turn, but here is one for now. This is one of our MSP drops on that VR but not the one of which we speak.
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Many thanks all ... a really fascinating topic
AA62 ... looking forward to your further pics
Stretchwell ... your pic @ #643 appears to have disappeared ?
AA62 ... looking forward to your further pics
Stretchwell ... your pic @ #643 appears to have disappeared ?
OK, Coff although it is well out of sequence of my tales we will continue the Volant Rodeo theme. This is me on my second VR with my 'minder', a super bloke with a great sense of humour. My first VR was as an umpire the year the RAF decided they could not afford to send a full team for the competition. In order not to lose touch they sent a couple of us as umpires. We went out civvy and came home 'Hercair'. As I was an 'orficer' the USAF assumed I was a pilot and initially scheduled me to do the Flt Deck umpiring. Not really a problem because all you had to do was log all the relevant times etc IAW a 'crib' sheet. It was very interesting flying with foreign airforces on C130, C160 and the 141.
A team at the DZ/LZ scored the touchdown and drop accuracy.
My second VR I just did 'down the back' umpiring. I also did the annual airdrop check on one of our ALMs, on one of the practice MSPs before the competition proper, who was participating in the competition. Pics to follow.
There was some concern by the USAF at our dropping from such a low height, but we convinced them that was our SOP.
There are two basic airdrop philosophies. You either use unstressed platforms and drop specially developed vehicles to withstand the forces involved (USAF and others) or you use a stressed platform and drop suitably prepared normal vehicles (UK system). So in theory we could take your car, prep it for airdrop and send it on its way with a good chance it will survive intact when it and the DZ meet. You pay your money and take your choice.
I had better stop here ! Any questions at the back for those still awake ?
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Mr Coffman,
I am not sure if any vehicles were ever dropped using ULLA from our Ks.
I know the US did use the system they called LAPES to drop graders. some interesting film on youtube including some terrifying crashes and what they called mishaps.
HSP started life on the Beverley. AA62 would have been amongst the few who dropped HSP from the K. In my time since mid 90s it was dropped on Purple Star and once at Cerney or Kevil (memory fades) with the CVRT. I hope the last remaining platform made its way to the Airborne museum at Duxford safely.
I am pretty sure that there is some amazing video of ULLA, MSP and other things at JATE.
I am not sure if any vehicles were ever dropped using ULLA from our Ks.
I know the US did use the system they called LAPES to drop graders. some interesting film on youtube including some terrifying crashes and what they called mishaps.
HSP started life on the Beverley. AA62 would have been amongst the few who dropped HSP from the K. In my time since mid 90s it was dropped on Purple Star and once at Cerney or Kevil (memory fades) with the CVRT. I hope the last remaining platform made its way to the Airborne museum at Duxford safely.
I am pretty sure that there is some amazing video of ULLA, MSP and other things at JATE.
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Hi Drag old chap ... I thought our resident PPRuNe Drop Engineer Specialist would pitch up at some point on this topic
AA62 ... Trying to be objective ... It seems far more sensible (and economic) to use a Stressed Platform to drop standard mil vehicles when required, rather than "over spec" the entire vehicle fleet on the chance that "some" might need to be Air Dropped at some future point. I'd also guess that it's more cost effective to keep a Stressed Platform serviceable ready for use than it is to keep individual vehicles in a fleet at a similar state of readiness ?
AA62 ... Trying to be objective ... It seems far more sensible (and economic) to use a Stressed Platform to drop standard mil vehicles when required, rather than "over spec" the entire vehicle fleet on the chance that "some" might need to be Air Dropped at some future point. I'd also guess that it's more cost effective to keep a Stressed Platform serviceable ready for use than it is to keep individual vehicles in a fleet at a similar state of readiness ?
I am sure dragartist is correct. I know of no clearance for the dropping of vehicles via ULLA. That the USAF were able to do so with their similar system, LAPES was because of the specialist nature of the vehicles used as I mentioned earlier. I only ever dropped combat stores. That is ammo, rations, pol and the like and the APFC. I remember being told that our vehicles would not withstand the forces involved.
As regards the HSP when Op Corporate was brewing up I was asked by someone 'futher up the line' what I could recall about the HSP which had to all intents and purposes been withdrawn from service. I told him what I could remember and heard nothing more. It seems the 'cunning plan' was to drop a grader on South Georgia to make a tac strip for the Herc! Anyone who has ever been there or read Ernest Shackleton's book will be astounded that this was ever considered.
It is a measure of the desperation that the whole 'mission impossible' Falklands op generated. It was not the only 'interesting' proposal to come down the line !
As regards the HSP when Op Corporate was brewing up I was asked by someone 'futher up the line' what I could recall about the HSP which had to all intents and purposes been withdrawn from service. I told him what I could remember and heard nothing more. It seems the 'cunning plan' was to drop a grader on South Georgia to make a tac strip for the Herc! Anyone who has ever been there or read Ernest Shackleton's book will be astounded that this was ever considered.
It is a measure of the desperation that the whole 'mission impossible' Falklands op generated. It was not the only 'interesting' proposal to come down the line !
Coff,
the problem with an expensive stressed platform is that once dropped you have to effectively assume that it will not be available for follow up ops, as no way of recovering makes sense. So you could afford to write off cheap unstressed platforms, of which no doubt you have many more for the same money. I take no sides as each has merits and drawbacks. As I said 'you pays your money' !
the problem with an expensive stressed platform is that once dropped you have to effectively assume that it will not be available for follow up ops, as no way of recovering makes sense. So you could afford to write off cheap unstressed platforms, of which no doubt you have many more for the same money. I take no sides as each has merits and drawbacks. As I said 'you pays your money' !
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Not trying to 'two sh!ts ' you Stretchwell, but it could be 3 linked loads. I've tried to erase NVG ULLA from my memory for mental health reasons I'm fairly certain we dropped 3 lots of 'Blivets' together for the release to service trial. I'll try and dig in the video box-I have film of 3 of us doing the trials. As I remember, 15 ft was the maximum-any higher and the front lip digs in, demonstrated in one of the trials videos. 8- 10 ft was ideal, 5 ft and below got you cuffed by the Eng and you earned the ignominy of a 'touchdown'. I think we got a bit over zealous with the trials and used some iffy DZs-Hullavington was particularly scary-I often wondered what late night drivers made of a blacked out Herc coming over the road at 10 ft.....
I remember being genuinely relieved when I dropped my last NVG Ulla load.
I'm fairly certain we dropped 3 lots of 'Blivets' together for the release to service trial. I'll try and dig in the video box-I have film of 3 of us doing the trials. As I remember, 15 ft was the maximum-any higher and the front lip digs in, demonstrated in one of the trials videos. 8- 10 ft was ideal, 5 ft and below got you cuffed by the Eng and you earned the ignominy of a 'touchdown'. I think we got a bit over zealous with the trials and used some iffy DZs-Hullavington was particularly scary-I often wondered what late night drivers made of a blacked out Herc coming over the road at 10 ft.....I remember being genuinely relieved when I dropped my last NVG Ulla load.
Chickenlover,
Apart from the height requirement, there must have been an airspeed element to this sort of drop. Could you give us any idea as to what sort of speeds this was done at, and particularly how close to stall speed it was. I managed to see a couple of these loads go, but from inside the freight bay, you had no idea of what was happening outside. I'm sure drop speed must have been close to stall, but as an ex AGE I'm no authority. Smashing picture again.
Smudge
Apart from the height requirement, there must have been an airspeed element to this sort of drop. Could you give us any idea as to what sort of speeds this was done at, and particularly how close to stall speed it was. I managed to see a couple of these loads go, but from inside the freight bay, you had no idea of what was happening outside. I'm sure drop speed must have been close to stall, but as an ex AGE I'm no authority. Smashing picture again.
Smudge