Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Andy,
I am surprised that your flights in the 'K' did not put you off it for life.
It was not a good a/c for air experience flights, the Hastings was much better with large windows and 'proper' seats.
I am surprised that your flights in the 'K' did not put you off it for life.
It was not a good a/c for air experience flights, the Hastings was much better with large windows and 'proper' seats.
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Well I was young and enthusiastic then...I'd already had a flight in XR810 (VC-10) the day before with the strangely backward facing seats, which was my first experience of anything with engines!
Now, nearly 36 years later I've managed to scrape a living in aviation(albeit the inflatable type
) so it obviously triggered something...3000+ hours in balloons and 200 hours in gliders...and counting 
Andy,
rearward facing seats were the norm for RAF transport a/c at the time, apart from the Hercules which was called a 'troop carrier' with the infamous sideways facing para seats. Rearwards facing was regarded as the safest system in the event of a crash . Pax aft of freight was also the norm until the advent of the 'K' and then the normal rules were mostly waived for this 'troop carrier'.
rearward facing seats were the norm for RAF transport a/c at the time, apart from the Hercules which was called a 'troop carrier' with the infamous sideways facing para seats. Rearwards facing was regarded as the safest system in the event of a crash . Pax aft of freight was also the norm until the advent of the 'K' and then the normal rules were mostly waived for this 'troop carrier'.
Oh dear AA62,
I always thought the travel arrangements for passengers such as myself (the hammock) was a most pleasant way to pass the hours as we transited to the next watering hole
Smudge
I always thought the travel arrangements for passengers such as myself (the hammock) was a most pleasant way to pass the hours as we transited to the next watering hole
Smudge
Possibly so Drag,
I clocked just less than 5000 hours as a GE on Albert, many others dead heading somewhere (dead heading? That was GE'ing wasn't it?) and always did my best to avoid the para seats. The worst incident I saw was when doing the Arnhem Drop, with night stop at Deelen. On the approach to the DZ the seat support rail at the centre front came adrift and cracked a seated para across the head. At that point the troops had not been told to get their helmets on, and he had a really nasty cut across the top of his head. We got him up to the flight deck, and managed to give him a bit of first aid. The doctor at Deelen was more efficient, but it was very nasty. How it was missed out of Lyneham by the roley squippers is anyone's guess. I always appreciated the offer of a chance to see the landing from the Flight Deck, seemed safer somehow
Smudge
I clocked just less than 5000 hours as a GE on Albert, many others dead heading somewhere (dead heading? That was GE'ing wasn't it?) and always did my best to avoid the para seats. The worst incident I saw was when doing the Arnhem Drop, with night stop at Deelen. On the approach to the DZ the seat support rail at the centre front came adrift and cracked a seated para across the head. At that point the troops had not been told to get their helmets on, and he had a really nasty cut across the top of his head. We got him up to the flight deck, and managed to give him a bit of first aid. The doctor at Deelen was more efficient, but it was very nasty. How it was missed out of Lyneham by the roley squippers is anyone's guess. I always appreciated the offer of a chance to see the landing from the Flight Deck, seemed safer somehow
Smudge
smudge,
do not be too hasty blaming the role equippers. Those beams were notorious for their poor fit. When you add to this the distortion caused to the whole seat fit by the weight of the paras and and their kit an occasional dislodging of the 'meccano' that made up the seat was not surprising.
do not be too hasty blaming the role equippers. Those beams were notorious for their poor fit. When you add to this the distortion caused to the whole seat fit by the weight of the paras and and their kit an occasional dislodging of the 'meccano' that made up the seat was not surprising.
dragartist,
my opinion of the seats was flagged up during the HEART job. A perfect example of the 'domino' theory !
my opinion of the seats was flagged up during the HEART job. A perfect example of the 'domino' theory !
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Good morning Gentlemen ...
If we're talking about PAX safety and comfort ... I came across these pics on Twitter yesterday which I'm sure will be of interest. Perhaps we have members of the crew from the original 1968 Greenland Exp following our Thread who could share a bit more of the story
Image Credits : Crown, MOD RAF, IWM (all above).
AA62 ... So what was the SOP for 'Four Legged PAX' from the ALM's perspective ... bit of care needed with all that corrosive K9P down the back
Best ...
Coff.
PS. For those interested the source/author Twitter Feed has a wealth of other pics and reference material that is worth a look.
https://twitter.com/IanDProctor
If we're talking about PAX safety and comfort ... I came across these pics on Twitter yesterday which I'm sure will be of interest. Perhaps we have members of the crew from the original 1968 Greenland Exp following our Thread who could share a bit more of the story
Image Credits : Crown, MOD RAF, IWM (all above).
AA62 ... So what was the SOP for 'Four Legged PAX' from the ALM's perspective ... bit of care needed with all that corrosive K9P down the back
Best ...
Coff.
PS. For those interested the source/author Twitter Feed has a wealth of other pics and reference material that is worth a look.
https://twitter.com/IanDProctor
Coffman,
animals could only be carried when specially authorised. We did carry a number of RAF police dogs usually sedated with a handler. Animals have also been airdropped as 'meat on the hoof' or on the wing in the case of chickens.
Between all of us on this thread I expect we have carried most 'four legged pax'. I was not very keen due to the smell and their wish to escape confinement
animals could only be carried when specially authorised. We did carry a number of RAF police dogs usually sedated with a handler. Animals have also been airdropped as 'meat on the hoof' or on the wing in the case of chickens.
Between all of us on this thread I expect we have carried most 'four legged pax'. I was not very keen due to the smell and their wish to escape confinement
AA62,
Thanks for that, and point taken. I wasn't aware that there were particular problems with the seats collapsing. However, with the exception of a few re roles during my time as a GE I had little to do with the seats, apart from tidying the straps when putting Albert to bed at the end of the day's flying. Now, about these huskies ?
Smudge
Thanks for that, and point taken. I wasn't aware that there were particular problems with the seats collapsing. However, with the exception of a few re roles during my time as a GE I had little to do with the seats, apart from tidying the straps when putting Albert to bed at the end of the day's flying. Now, about these huskies ?
Smudge
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Morning Smudge
I'm assuming that the 'Riggers' would adopt a similar routine with any K9P 'spillage' as they did with SAR Ops and saltwater contamination ... a good wash down then liberal amounts of PX24
I'm assuming that the 'Riggers' would adopt a similar routine with any K9P 'spillage' as they did with SAR Ops and saltwater contamination ... a good wash down then liberal amounts of PX24
Morning Coff,
Fortunately, as a "rigger" by trade myself, I never had to deal with K9P on Albert. The biggest liability I remember from being a GE was a blockage of the urinal drains. This often went unreported by the Pax until the urinal itself got rather full. Any turbulence then and .... , you can imagine. If we (the Loadie or GE) spotted the problem quickly, a large poly bag over the top usually saved the day, along with the appropriate signage. I do know that unblocking the damn things was often messy, and not appreciated by the people whose airfield was contaminated upon release. The only other major threat, in my opinion, were the large quantities of road salt we shipped in to Sarajevo, to help keep their roads ice fre, and help the road convoys around. The stuff spilled everywhere, and, for obvious reasons, had to be cleaned up as soon as practicable. Often leading to an extra couple of hours at the aircraft after a long day, usually 3 return trips Ancona to Sarajevo. Why the stuff wasn't shipped in by the road convoys is beyond me, but salt and aircraft are not good bedfellows I would say.
Smudge
Fortunately, as a "rigger" by trade myself, I never had to deal with K9P on Albert. The biggest liability I remember from being a GE was a blockage of the urinal drains. This often went unreported by the Pax until the urinal itself got rather full. Any turbulence then and .... , you can imagine. If we (the Loadie or GE) spotted the problem quickly, a large poly bag over the top usually saved the day, along with the appropriate signage. I do know that unblocking the damn things was often messy, and not appreciated by the people whose airfield was contaminated upon release. The only other major threat, in my opinion, were the large quantities of road salt we shipped in to Sarajevo, to help keep their roads ice fre, and help the road convoys around. The stuff spilled everywhere, and, for obvious reasons, had to be cleaned up as soon as practicable. Often leading to an extra couple of hours at the aircraft after a long day, usually 3 return trips Ancona to Sarajevo. Why the stuff wasn't shipped in by the road convoys is beyond me, but salt and aircraft are not good bedfellows I would say.
Smudge
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Dogs
Many moons ago a loadie by the name of B***N A****R and I got to our aircraft to do a quick Germany run to deliver what we thought would be the usual mix of general freight. How wrong we were! On board there were a dozen really grumpy Army war dogs in individual cages. They are not bred or trained to be friendly. I have no idea how long they had been there, but they let us know that they were angry and in no way sedated. B***N said something to the effect of "not in MY aircraft" and we both left to find anyone who knew what was going on. Nobody seemed to know. Eventually the captain, co and nav turned up at which point both B**** and I said we were unhappy with the doggies. The captain asked why until he came face to muzzle with a very ferocious dog which was emitting steam from its ears! The RAF doggy handlers and their vet were called and the trip put off until the next day when said doggies were sound asleep....but we were not. The possibility of one of those on the flight deck kept us all very much awake.
See my point above. They should have been sedated and the respective handlers should have been in attendance from the time they were onloaded.
This, to the best of my recollection was what the regulations required.
On the Hercules with its open access to the flight deck there is no where to hide should a grumpy canine get loose.
Even sedated animals have been known to wake up on some of the longer flights.
This, to the best of my recollection was what the regulations required.
On the Hercules with its open access to the flight deck there is no where to hide should a grumpy canine get loose.
Even sedated animals have been known to wake up on some of the longer flights.
Coff
I recall reading an article in 'Air Clues' in '68 about a Herc' supporting an expedition to, I think, Point Barrow the most northerly place in Alaska.
A photo' showed the skipper Sqn Ldr Mike Nash who sadly died last year and a Sqn Ldr nav' whom I did not know and never ever came across. Perhaps he was the nav' on the first Herc' delivered to the RAF?
Maybe someone like Lou Scannon may know more.
A photo' showed the skipper Sqn Ldr Mike Nash who sadly died last year and a Sqn Ldr nav' whom I did not know and never ever came across. Perhaps he was the nav' on the first Herc' delivered to the RAF?
Maybe someone like Lou Scannon may know more.
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Didn't B***n A****r once get some kind of award for repelling a mob attempting to get on his aircraft?
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Well ... that just goes to show that we are a nation who loves the dog (I thought it best to phrase it that way)
Mind you AA62 ... you now owe me a new iPad following a quick read of your phrasing this morning
Just had a vision of a sedated Snowdrop slumped in the corner with is dog
Brain Thanks for that ... perhaps someone might have a copy of that Air Clues article we can share
Mind you AA62 ... you now owe me a new iPad following a quick read of your phrasing this morning
... usually sedated with a handler
Brain Thanks for that ... perhaps someone might have a copy of that Air Clues article we can share
Another flash of recall from somewhere! I think Mike's trip was in support of the start Of Wally Herbert's Trans-Arctic expedition.
Looked at Wiki' and it relates that Herbert started at the top of Alaska and 18 months later, following 5 months rested-up on the Polar Ice Sheet, finished at Spitsbergen. Apparently he was well used to working with dogs on his polar expeditions.
Looked at Wiki' and it relates that Herbert started at the top of Alaska and 18 months later, following 5 months rested-up on the Polar Ice Sheet, finished at Spitsbergen. Apparently he was well used to working with dogs on his polar expeditions.