Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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With regards stretcher fits........ whilst many of us cursed stuffing the strops into / dragging them out of stowage pre / post depth maintenance, and often wondered if the side stanchions really needed that many brackets it all became obvious come TACEVAL. Most had been on enough routes to know what the cowhorns were for, and rigged the static frame for families day to show people the various fits that Albert could achieve. This included a centre stanchion with stretcher so we knew a little bit!
Sods law dictated the frame chosen was in a 13C or 3A, part of the fun for the umpires no doubt. I forget what numeric role config the fit was but out would come the 5E for the NCO to study (remember those days when an NCO had to supervise role fits). So rambling on ...........re-role to clear floor, keeping the centre stanchions in and move the brackets to correct position. Slacken seat backs, install cowhorns and start dragging out the strops (colour co-ordinated and correctly positioned of course).
From my experience this was usually an hour or so into the role CX and the umpire would stand in and either halt the task, or as in one case inform us that the LOX plant (next door) had been hit & we were to act as casualties. Not sure we would survive such a blast but never mind.........point is we never achieved much of the re-role so can`t confirm what problems we would face further down the line, just to add after the first exercise we learnt well and just got one strop out at a time until we were stopped.
Sods law dictated the frame chosen was in a 13C or 3A, part of the fun for the umpires no doubt. I forget what numeric role config the fit was but out would come the 5E for the NCO to study (remember those days when an NCO had to supervise role fits). So rambling on ...........re-role to clear floor, keeping the centre stanchions in and move the brackets to correct position. Slacken seat backs, install cowhorns and start dragging out the strops (colour co-ordinated and correctly positioned of course).
From my experience this was usually an hour or so into the role CX and the umpire would stand in and either halt the task, or as in one case inform us that the LOX plant (next door) had been hit & we were to act as casualties. Not sure we would survive such a blast but never mind.........point is we never achieved much of the re-role so can`t confirm what problems we would face further down the line, just to add after the first exercise we learnt well and just got one strop out at a time until we were stopped.
Bts70,
The "Roly squippers" certainly had a busy life, and for myself and a fellow ex GE (who doesn't post, but watches) have our admiration. We both, in discussing role changes etc wondered why in our time a few days with Role equipment section was not part of the GEs course. As a rigger by trade, the role changes created down route were OK, but I reckon the Avionics trade based GEs struggled a bit. I had the pleasure of doing several routes where major role changes required that the SVC was a squipper, and always enjoyed some banter, and lessons on how to do it properly. The beauty of the Albert team was that they came from every nook and cranny Lyneham had to offer.
Smudge
The "Roly squippers" certainly had a busy life, and for myself and a fellow ex GE (who doesn't post, but watches) have our admiration. We both, in discussing role changes etc wondered why in our time a few days with Role equipment section was not part of the GEs course. As a rigger by trade, the role changes created down route were OK, but I reckon the Avionics trade based GEs struggled a bit. I had the pleasure of doing several routes where major role changes required that the SVC was a squipper, and always enjoyed some banter, and lessons on how to do it properly. The beauty of the Albert team was that they came from every nook and cranny Lyneham had to offer.
Smudge
smudge,
the G/Es certainly did lots of role changes usually alongside the ALM . I still have my certificate authorising me to do role changes and sign for them.
I am reminded that the frame change mentioned in my DG story also involved a role change at Bahrein. We had to txfer all the side guidance , roller conveyor etc to the new frame. The new lady loadie suffered in the heat so I parked her under the wing in the shade with my scarf soaked in water round her head. Did nothing for her hair but achieved the object. The G/E and I then did the role change. The lady in question was one of the first ab initio ALMs to come to the Herc. As for Izzie I was her boss on 30 and helped her with her prep for OASC commissioning board. My wife and I then attended her passing out parade at Cranwell. It rained cats and dogs but we had a very good party in the evening.
the G/Es certainly did lots of role changes usually alongside the ALM . I still have my certificate authorising me to do role changes and sign for them.
I am reminded that the frame change mentioned in my DG story also involved a role change at Bahrein. We had to txfer all the side guidance , roller conveyor etc to the new frame. The new lady loadie suffered in the heat so I parked her under the wing in the shade with my scarf soaked in water round her head. Did nothing for her hair but achieved the object. The G/E and I then did the role change. The lady in question was one of the first ab initio ALMs to come to the Herc. As for Izzie I was her boss on 30 and helped her with her prep for OASC commissioning board. My wife and I then attended her passing out parade at Cranwell. It rained cats and dogs but we had a very good party in the evening.
With reference to Coff's request for unusual loads carried in the 'K'. My log book records 'Benbecula-Benbecula-15 mins RTB Lance missile leaking' ! Now whether this leak came from the missile itself or the tracked vehicle on which it was fitted I cannot now remember. Once had an acid spillage but that story can wait till next time.
Coff,
it was and a tight fit too. But then so was the tracked Rapier which of course the British Army were not originally intended to have.
it was and a tight fit too. But then so was the tracked Rapier which of course the British Army were not originally intended to have.
ksimboy,
ref tracked Rapier you may well be right. The missiles were mounted on a USA chassis not unlike that of the Lance. When loading any of these type of loads you had to get it nigh on perfectly lined up outside the a/c. Once on the a/c manoeuvring was very limited and if attempted could result in the tracks spitting the loadspreaders out to one side. I was on the trial for the tracked Rapier and I seem to recall problems getting the driver out once it was on the a/c. However this may be a (confused) recollection of something else. I was also involved with the trial of that well known Airfix kit, the Puma, into the 'K' after the demise of the Belfast. A number of 'gotchas' in that !
ref tracked Rapier you may well be right. The missiles were mounted on a USA chassis not unlike that of the Lance. When loading any of these type of loads you had to get it nigh on perfectly lined up outside the a/c. Once on the a/c manoeuvring was very limited and if attempted could result in the tracks spitting the loadspreaders out to one side. I was on the trial for the tracked Rapier and I seem to recall problems getting the driver out once it was on the a/c. However this may be a (confused) recollection of something else. I was also involved with the trial of that well known Airfix kit, the Puma, into the 'K' after the demise of the Belfast. A number of 'gotchas' in that !
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From ARRSE-pedia. Made me giggle.
C-130 Hercules
Type: STOL military transport aircraft
Manufacturer: Lockheed Corporation
Introduction: December 1956
Status: In service
Number built: 2,262
Cost : $66.5 million
The venerable Lockheed C130 transport aircraft is known in British service as the 'Hercules'. Primarily used for shifting large amounts of duty free alcohol and cigarettes back to the UK, for onward sale round the back of most pubs in the Brize Norton and Lyneham areas, it has also been successfully adapted by the RAF for transporting small amounts of non-duty free cargo (when space allows), and sometimes even personnel. It should be remembered that as the result of CAA regulations, non RAF aircrew flying in Hercules's may not transport anything that is slightly pointy or can be made to go bang. There are no exceptions to this, so 16 Air Assault Brigade can forget any notions they might have about parachute or TALO operations: movers won't allow it.
The C130 has been the world's most prolific military tactical heavy-lift aircraft for nearly 40 years.
The Hercules C1 first entered RAF service in 1968, replacing the Blackburn Beverley and the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. Not a great difference in lift capacity between the Beverley and the Herc, just an enormous range advantage - about 8 x the range of the old boxcar. I flew to Northern Ireland in 1969 in a Royal Air Force Herc C1: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. 36 years later, I flew in a Royal Australian Air Force C130J: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. (Why change a winning combination?)
The Herc has served in dozens of air forces worldwide, & continues to provide invaluable service to our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, The Falklands, East Timor - in short, anywhere that troops require heavy-lift resup, reinforcement, CASEVAC or MEDEVAC, often using short and primitive bush runways.
The C130 is affectionately known to NATO air and ground crew alike as the "Fat Albert" and the Hercules pilot generally enjoys the same esteem in the aviating community as an illiterate Bosnian goat herder at the Monaco Grand Prix.
A favourite stunt by the Air Load master ( a mover with GCSE's who doesn't get airsick ) is to point out the tiny port hole windows to baby Paras on their first jump and inform them that it is their only means of exit from the aircraft once airborne. Even if it were possible to open it an anorexic whippet without a parachute would struggle to get through. The bewildered looks of panic on the baby Paras' faces is the cause of many a late night chuckle in the mess.
When deploying on detachment an RAF Squadron will cram all the ground support equipment, rations, spares, kit and ground crew into the one Fat Albert that has been designated for the task. The mechanic who can endure a noisy, cramped 15 hour flight with a towing arm up one nostril and a spanner up his catflap without complaining is a rare beast.
Thanks to the mighty dollar US Air Force Squadrons on the other hand generally task separate Fat Alberts for the transportation of men, machinery, barbecue equipment, baseball kit, Budweiser and Coca Cola.
To date the C130 is one of the few aircraft capable of delivering the notorious "Daisy Cutter" bomb, the munition that did so much to eradicate Osama Bin Laden's DNA from the gene pool. Also the C130 is a very old aircraft and is liable to fall to pieces at any moment.
In the mid-1990s, a select group of RAF staff officers drew up outline plans for the Air Defence variant (Hercules F5). This entailed installing rotary AMRAAM dispensers under the wings, capable of being mechanically reloaded in flight from additional weapon stocks in the cargo hold. The F5 was intended to operate in conjunction with a dedicated AWACS ac. Long-range target detection would result in the F5 discharging numerous AMRAAM in the general direction of the "incoming raid". AAR would enable the F5/AWACS pair to remain on station for several days. The plan foundered when the staff group sobered up and found they had lost the beer mat on which they had scribbled the draft OR.
Type: STOL military transport aircraft
Manufacturer: Lockheed Corporation
Introduction: December 1956
Status: In service
Number built: 2,262
Cost : $66.5 million
The venerable Lockheed C130 transport aircraft is known in British service as the 'Hercules'. Primarily used for shifting large amounts of duty free alcohol and cigarettes back to the UK, for onward sale round the back of most pubs in the Brize Norton and Lyneham areas, it has also been successfully adapted by the RAF for transporting small amounts of non-duty free cargo (when space allows), and sometimes even personnel. It should be remembered that as the result of CAA regulations, non RAF aircrew flying in Hercules's may not transport anything that is slightly pointy or can be made to go bang. There are no exceptions to this, so 16 Air Assault Brigade can forget any notions they might have about parachute or TALO operations: movers won't allow it.
The C130 has been the world's most prolific military tactical heavy-lift aircraft for nearly 40 years.
The Hercules C1 first entered RAF service in 1968, replacing the Blackburn Beverley and the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. Not a great difference in lift capacity between the Beverley and the Herc, just an enormous range advantage - about 8 x the range of the old boxcar. I flew to Northern Ireland in 1969 in a Royal Air Force Herc C1: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. 36 years later, I flew in a Royal Australian Air Force C130J: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. (Why change a winning combination?)
The Herc has served in dozens of air forces worldwide, & continues to provide invaluable service to our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, The Falklands, East Timor - in short, anywhere that troops require heavy-lift resup, reinforcement, CASEVAC or MEDEVAC, often using short and primitive bush runways.
The C130 is affectionately known to NATO air and ground crew alike as the "Fat Albert" and the Hercules pilot generally enjoys the same esteem in the aviating community as an illiterate Bosnian goat herder at the Monaco Grand Prix.
A favourite stunt by the Air Load master ( a mover with GCSE's who doesn't get airsick ) is to point out the tiny port hole windows to baby Paras on their first jump and inform them that it is their only means of exit from the aircraft once airborne. Even if it were possible to open it an anorexic whippet without a parachute would struggle to get through. The bewildered looks of panic on the baby Paras' faces is the cause of many a late night chuckle in the mess.
When deploying on detachment an RAF Squadron will cram all the ground support equipment, rations, spares, kit and ground crew into the one Fat Albert that has been designated for the task. The mechanic who can endure a noisy, cramped 15 hour flight with a towing arm up one nostril and a spanner up his catflap without complaining is a rare beast.
Thanks to the mighty dollar US Air Force Squadrons on the other hand generally task separate Fat Alberts for the transportation of men, machinery, barbecue equipment, baseball kit, Budweiser and Coca Cola.
To date the C130 is one of the few aircraft capable of delivering the notorious "Daisy Cutter" bomb, the munition that did so much to eradicate Osama Bin Laden's DNA from the gene pool. Also the C130 is a very old aircraft and is liable to fall to pieces at any moment.
In the mid-1990s, a select group of RAF staff officers drew up outline plans for the Air Defence variant (Hercules F5). This entailed installing rotary AMRAAM dispensers under the wings, capable of being mechanically reloaded in flight from additional weapon stocks in the cargo hold. The F5 was intended to operate in conjunction with a dedicated AWACS ac. Long-range target detection would result in the F5 discharging numerous AMRAAM in the general direction of the "incoming raid". AAR would enable the F5/AWACS pair to remain on station for several days. The plan foundered when the staff group sobered up and found they had lost the beer mat on which they had scribbled the draft OR.
Hempy,
hilarious. If you look at pics of some of the USAF Hercs modified to carry drones under the wings an AD version of the Herc is possible ! Actually more relevant would be the carriage of cruise missiles under the wings.
hilarious. If you look at pics of some of the USAF Hercs modified to carry drones under the wings an AD version of the Herc is possible ! Actually more relevant would be the carriage of cruise missiles under the wings.
I was fortunate enough , during my time, to take part in an exchange visit to Hurlbert Field, with a 47SF crew. Some good flying, but as the 8th SOS was one of the units that delivered the "Daisy cutter", they were in possession of what was thought at the time to be the last of its kind. It really was a beast of a bomb, I believe last dropped in anger in GW1 by 8th SOS, who also lost an aircraft on a Daisy cutter mission. Did the K ever drop munitions ? Or did it just deliver them to user units, I can't say I've heard of any such ops.
The beast on a condec. (From Bing images)
Smudge
The beast on a condec. (From Bing images)
Smudge
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Smudge, Not sure if I had stated before but in late 90s early 2000s the Americans were playing with something similar to the daisy cutter out at YPG. under the guise of a Kistler satellite launch rocket. It was dropped under parachutes then they lit the fires. A UK team from Irvin were out doing the trials some of them stayed and were still there the last time I went in 2011. If you look for the parachute test centre adjacent to Laguna airfield on google maps satellite view the test vehicles are still in the scrap compound.
Pictures exist of an Argentine c130 used as a bomber during the Falklands.
So far as I know we never dropped any such things.
An MSP load of 105 or even 80mm mortar rounds may make a big bang
Pictures exist of an Argentine c130 used as a bomber during the Falklands.
So far as I know we never dropped any such things.
An MSP load of 105 or even 80mm mortar rounds may make a big bang
Drag, thanks for that. Interesting site. I see there appears to be a C130 wingless fuselage just to the NW of the vehicles. So, we have more than the Daisy cutters already.
Smudge
Smudge
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Drag ... Did a bit of digging ...
Argentinian C-130 with pylons and gun sight from a Pucara ...
I just wonder if the gun sight would have added any value in terms of achieving some level of accuracy ?
Source and more pics ...
Impressive Weapons Load - Page 26
Argentinian C-130 with pylons and gun sight from a Pucara ...
I just wonder if the gun sight would have added any value in terms of achieving some level of accuracy ?
Source and more pics ...
Impressive Weapons Load - Page 26
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I knew you would Coff 
Smudge, I guess the cab would have been used for training airdrop load rigging. The facility was similar in some ways to JATE. I don't recall seeing it there in the flesh. They had similar difficulties to us in getting frames for airdrop trials. they were grateful to many of the Air National Guard units that would pitch up following a request. In spite of the USAF having so many C130s they still used the civy one and even the C123 from the Conair film on occasion.
I remain eternally grateful to the guys who ran that facility for looking after us in the aftermath of 13 years ago last week.
Smudge, I guess the cab would have been used for training airdrop load rigging. The facility was similar in some ways to JATE. I don't recall seeing it there in the flesh. They had similar difficulties to us in getting frames for airdrop trials. they were grateful to many of the Air National Guard units that would pitch up following a request. In spite of the USAF having so many C130s they still used the civy one and even the C123 from the Conair film on occasion.
I remain eternally grateful to the guys who ran that facility for looking after us in the aftermath of 13 years ago last week.
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The model which began it all.
The link below will take you to the last C130A still operational with AeroProducts propellers. It is one of the 12 C130A's which entered RAAF service during late 1958 to early 1959. Former RAAF A97-212 which is currently on the market. Has been in the hands of Earl Cherry Aviation in Louisiana for many years and has been used in a variety of roles, including testing of wing-tip fuel pods, para-dropping and as pictured, Aerial Refueling pods (hose & drogue) trials. I spent many hours in this old girl during my RAAF time. Hope she finds a kind home for a while and does not end up in a scrap yard too soon.
Former A97-212 (now N131EC) Trialling Refuel Pods Photo by OldFellah | Photobucket
Former A97-212 (now N131EC) Trialling Refuel Pods Photo by OldFellah | Photobucket
Last edited by Old Fella; 17th Sep 2014 at 11:59.
I as far as I am aware there were no clearances for dropping bombs etc from our 'K', other than the mines previously noted. However based on the USAF Vietnam experience it would not have been too difficult a job. As dragartist has said an MSP load would make a suitable ordnance load. Could always bring back the SSP
and drop three of them.
and drop three of them.
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I'm only posting this clip to demonstrate the "extraction" method given what we have been discussing ...
BLU-82 Vietnam
Does that Detonation Probe appear to only just clear the ramp ?
BLU-82 Vietnam
Does that Detonation Probe appear to only just clear the ramp ?