Here it comes: Syria
This should not be a surprise, Arab armies have long had difficulty getting the troops sufficiently motivated. Even T E Lawrence made a point of highlighting this as a major reason for his tactics.
The situation should be even less impressive today. If the choice is to fight for Assad or for ISIS, most would agree that 'neither' is a rational response.
The situation should be even less impressive today. If the choice is to fight for Assad or for ISIS, most would agree that 'neither' is a rational response.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The Times: Middle East tensions rise after Israeli strike on missile base in Syria
Suspected Israeli cruise missile strikes on military bases and an arms depot in Syria killed scores of regime and possibly Iranian soldiers, according to monitors and state media.
The air-to-surface missiles, said to have been fired from Israeli jets, sent flames into the night sky of northern Syria above the bases near Hama and Aleppo. The blasts were so powerful they triggered earthquake sensors in neighbouring Lebanon and Turkey. Syrian rebel sources said the main target, the Brigade 47 base a few miles from Hama’s city centre, housed the northern command and control centre of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard based in Syria.
The guard has hundreds of officers and advisers helping defend the Assad regime, and backs a further estimated 20,000 Shia militia operatives it has sent in from across the region. However, Israel fears Tehran is also establishing a long-term presence to counter it from Syrian soil.......
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a monitor, said 26 soldiers were killed, most of them Iranian. Tehran state media initially appeared to confirm the attack, saying 18 Iranians died, but later reported an unnamed official denying that any of its countrymen had been killed.
A Syrian rebel intelligence officer operating in north Homs province not far from Hama said the Brigade 47 base was extensive, partly dug into a hillside, and contained a “scientific research centre” used to produce missiles as well as to house the Revolutionary Guard command. Syrian state media and pro-Hezbollah news agencies in Lebanon reported that a major weapons depot was struck.
The Observatory said it contained surface-to-surface missiles - a category that Iran has provided to Hezbollah in large quantities but which may now be intended for the wide range of Shia militias, including Iraqi, Afghan and Pakistani Shia fighters, who the Guard is supporting in Syria. “The strike hit the Guard sites in the centre and the ammunition warehouses,” the rebel officer, Captain Abdullah al-Zoubi, told The Times. “An estimate of 80 soldiers and commanders from the Guard and the regime were killed.”......
Senior Israeli officials, who rarely admit military operations in Syria, conspicuously failed to deny suggestions that its air force was responsible for the raids.
Suspected Israeli cruise missile strikes on military bases and an arms depot in Syria killed scores of regime and possibly Iranian soldiers, according to monitors and state media.
The air-to-surface missiles, said to have been fired from Israeli jets, sent flames into the night sky of northern Syria above the bases near Hama and Aleppo. The blasts were so powerful they triggered earthquake sensors in neighbouring Lebanon and Turkey. Syrian rebel sources said the main target, the Brigade 47 base a few miles from Hama’s city centre, housed the northern command and control centre of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard based in Syria.
The guard has hundreds of officers and advisers helping defend the Assad regime, and backs a further estimated 20,000 Shia militia operatives it has sent in from across the region. However, Israel fears Tehran is also establishing a long-term presence to counter it from Syrian soil.......
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a monitor, said 26 soldiers were killed, most of them Iranian. Tehran state media initially appeared to confirm the attack, saying 18 Iranians died, but later reported an unnamed official denying that any of its countrymen had been killed.
A Syrian rebel intelligence officer operating in north Homs province not far from Hama said the Brigade 47 base was extensive, partly dug into a hillside, and contained a “scientific research centre” used to produce missiles as well as to house the Revolutionary Guard command. Syrian state media and pro-Hezbollah news agencies in Lebanon reported that a major weapons depot was struck.
The Observatory said it contained surface-to-surface missiles - a category that Iran has provided to Hezbollah in large quantities but which may now be intended for the wide range of Shia militias, including Iraqi, Afghan and Pakistani Shia fighters, who the Guard is supporting in Syria. “The strike hit the Guard sites in the centre and the ammunition warehouses,” the rebel officer, Captain Abdullah al-Zoubi, told The Times. “An estimate of 80 soldiers and commanders from the Guard and the regime were killed.”......
Senior Israeli officials, who rarely admit military operations in Syria, conspicuously failed to deny suggestions that its air force was responsible for the raids.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...n-up-0gv8hnp3g
Iranian forces based in Syria fired a salvo of rockets at Israeli military positions as Tehran vented its fury over President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the nuclear deal.
According to the Israeli military, Iran’s Quds Force, the expeditionary unit of the Revolutionary Guards, launched 20 artillery rockets into the Golan Heights. Israel said that some of the rockets were intercepted and shot down by its Iron Dome missile defence system. A few got though and caused “some damage” to Israeli military installations but no casualties.
The Israeli army said it hit back by striking “dozens” of Iranian sites in Syria, targeting intelligence, storage and logistics as well as the origin of the rockets. Air-raid sirens were heard on the Israeli side of the Golan before the shelling and residents were told to stay in shelters. Israel is not seeking an escalation, a military spokesman said......
Iranian forces based in Syria fired a salvo of rockets at Israeli military positions as Tehran vented its fury over President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the nuclear deal.
According to the Israeli military, Iran’s Quds Force, the expeditionary unit of the Revolutionary Guards, launched 20 artillery rockets into the Golan Heights. Israel said that some of the rockets were intercepted and shot down by its Iron Dome missile defence system. A few got though and caused “some damage” to Israeli military installations but no casualties.
The Israeli army said it hit back by striking “dozens” of Iranian sites in Syria, targeting intelligence, storage and logistics as well as the origin of the rockets. Air-raid sirens were heard on the Israeli side of the Golan before the shelling and residents were told to stay in shelters. Israel is not seeking an escalation, a military spokesman said......
It's not as though the Israelis didn't see this coming ...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...n-up-0gv8hnp3g
The Israeli army said it hit back by striking “dozens” of Iranian sites in Syria, targeting intelligence, storage and logistics as well as the origin of the rockets. Air-raid sirens were heard on the Israeli side of the Golan before the shelling and residents were told to stay in shelters. Israel is not seeking an escalation, a military spokesman said......
If I may respond to the "spokesman's" assertion about not seeking escalation, I'll offer that in the last few weeks, the Israelis have lobbed a few rounds into Syria at (reported) Iranian positions/facilities.
OK, the Iranian Quds force lobs a few rounds back at them.
So the Israelis lob a few back ... no, wait, they do indeed escalate. Dozens of targets isn't "a few."
Methinks the major protests too loudly ....
OK, the Iranian Quds force lobs a few rounds back at them.
So the Israelis lob a few back ... no, wait, they do indeed escalate. Dozens of targets isn't "a few."
Methinks the major protests too loudly ....
The Israeli's have released some footage from the strikes. Targeting a Syrian SA-22 Greyhound (Pantsir S1) air defence system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir-S1
SA-22 was at Mezzeh Airbase, Damascus.
Map link
https://goo.gl/maps/YmLXPaL7x6U2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzeh_Military_Airport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir-S1
SA-22 was at Mezzeh Airbase, Damascus.
Map link
https://goo.gl/maps/YmLXPaL7x6U2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzeh_Military_Airport
Last edited by TEEEJ; 10th May 2018 at 20:51. Reason: additional info added
E@TheSultan: uh, no. The Iranians have made no secret about their presence in Syria.
False flag? No.
A bloody mess? Yeah.
Chance to get messier? Oh, hell yeah.
@TEEEJ: thanks for that video.
False flag? No.
A bloody mess? Yeah.
Chance to get messier? Oh, hell yeah.
@TEEEJ: thanks for that video.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 10th May 2018 at 21:12.
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It's a little puzzling to me why Israel is accused of trying to provoke a conflict.
From what I've read, they observed missile launchers and troops moving in a suspicious way near the Golan Heights.
That's kind of like being armed, and having a guy with a handgun starting to raise it and point it at you.
Now - do you wait to find out if the handgun is loaded?
Or if he will pull the trigger?
Nope.
As soon as you can see the end of the barrel - you shoot him first.
I would suggest the IDF simply saw the end of the barrel
What's the old saying "Ravi, may he rest in peace, was a good Jew. But you know what - he was a lousy shot.".
And yes - unless there has been a stern phone call from Moscow in the last 24 hours - I agree this could get very ugly indeed.
EDITED to add: No phonecall likely to come by the looks of things - tacit approval given to Bibi by Vladimir Vladomirivich
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Pu...n-Syria-556151
From what I've read, they observed missile launchers and troops moving in a suspicious way near the Golan Heights.
That's kind of like being armed, and having a guy with a handgun starting to raise it and point it at you.
Now - do you wait to find out if the handgun is loaded?
Or if he will pull the trigger?
Nope.
As soon as you can see the end of the barrel - you shoot him first.
I would suggest the IDF simply saw the end of the barrel
What's the old saying "Ravi, may he rest in peace, was a good Jew. But you know what - he was a lousy shot.".
And yes - unless there has been a stern phone call from Moscow in the last 24 hours - I agree this could get very ugly indeed.
EDITED to add: No phonecall likely to come by the looks of things - tacit approval given to Bibi by Vladimir Vladomirivich
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Pu...n-Syria-556151
Last edited by tartare; 11th May 2018 at 02:31.
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tartare,
Agree with you. Having tens of millions religious fanatics in your "neighbourhood" shouting that your country must die.... can hardly find another example on the map of this planet.
And the situation is getting worse: besides Syria, Hezbollah has been legalized as a major political force in Lebanon, pro-Iranian folks are growing "on steroids" in Iraq.
However, perhaps Israel should not escalate too high unless there is a real deadly threat arising. As it is written in their book "eye for eye, tooth for tooth", taking a whole jaw away for a tooth seems be an overreaction in the current situation. Also showing an underground archive with tons of papers on the iranian N-program is not very impressive as a "casus belli".
Agree with you. Having tens of millions religious fanatics in your "neighbourhood" shouting that your country must die.... can hardly find another example on the map of this planet.
And the situation is getting worse: besides Syria, Hezbollah has been legalized as a major political force in Lebanon, pro-Iranian folks are growing "on steroids" in Iraq.
However, perhaps Israel should not escalate too high unless there is a real deadly threat arising. As it is written in their book "eye for eye, tooth for tooth", taking a whole jaw away for a tooth seems be an overreaction in the current situation. Also showing an underground archive with tons of papers on the iranian N-program is not very impressive as a "casus belli".
Last edited by A_Van; 11th May 2018 at 06:25.
The Israeli's have released some footage from the strikes
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Israeli actions in Syria are co-ordinated with Russia, Russia being kept fully informed. It is believed that the Russians had passed on warning to the Iranian IRGC that they were on thin ice. The warnings it seems were ignored.
It should not be forgotten that in the Iraq Iran war the Iranian were happy to use children to clear mines.
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/b...-–-again
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/12/m...anaticism.html
They do have a ‘slightly’ different view on the value of human life.
It should not be forgotten that in the Iraq Iran war the Iranian were happy to use children to clear mines.
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/b...-–-again
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/12/m...anaticism.html
They do have a ‘slightly’ different view on the value of human life.
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According to opinions of experts in the Russian media (that sound realistic) the Israelis, as usual, easily outplayed the arabs (or persians) in tactics. The latter quickly shot out all the ammunition during the first strike and then remained helpless. Moreover, those lazy bones even did not bother to hide the SAM vehicles (and themselves) converting them into easy static targets.
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well some of the Iranians aren't totally stupid in my experience
No doubt General Soleimani has a few bright ideas on better ways to cause the Israelis grief than firing rockets over the border and getting hammered by the IAF - I suspect it will be something new and very different......
No doubt General Soleimani has a few bright ideas on better ways to cause the Israelis grief than firing rockets over the border and getting hammered by the IAF - I suspect it will be something new and very different......
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My experience also.
Of all the Jordanians, Iraqi's, Saudi's, Kuwaiti's, Egyptians and Libyans I have met, the Iranians are generally, by far, the smartest and most innovative. If we could encourage them to take a more positive leadership and diplomatic role in the Middle East, instead of fostering insurrection, everyone would be better off including the Israelis
Unfortunately, I fear there is too much bad blood and western interference flowing around.
IG
Of all the Jordanians, Iraqi's, Saudi's, Kuwaiti's, Egyptians and Libyans I have met, the Iranians are generally, by far, the smartest and most innovative. If we could encourage them to take a more positive leadership and diplomatic role in the Middle East, instead of fostering insurrection, everyone would be better off including the Israelis
Unfortunately, I fear there is too much bad blood and western interference flowing around.
IG
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Interference in the ME at the moment which includes the Quds Force specifically and the IRGC as a whole who have just taken a pointed hint from Israel for their recent ‘interference’ in Syria and, as of October 2017, designated as terrorist organisations by the U.S. government due to their direct connection to Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Palestine, and their support for Houthi rebels in Yemen.
Houthi’s who have been increasing their missile attacks on both aircraft and Saudi cities with what is said to be increasingly sophisticated missiles provide by Iran.
U.N. council mulls condemning Iran over Yemen's Houthis' getting...
And people are still bleating about Trump thinking the deal with Iran is seriously flawed.
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No Iranian interference at all????
fostering insurrection
I further contend that when viewed in the whole, only one nation is not committed to reducing the impact of that stalemate, and it is not Iran, Syria or Israel.
IG