Here it comes: Syria
Israeli intelligence believes that Iran is seeking to build its own independent infrastructure in Syria for asymmetric warfare against Israel, including drones and high-tech tools that are harder to strike than conventional military sites.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 65
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Israel behaves adequately. It is a victim of idiots in politics in Europe, Russia and US. If these three would find a compromise on Syria, Iran would not grow that much as a threat to Israel and not move to its borders.
IMHO, it is of the first importance to keep Syria as a secular state. Only in this case it is possible to talk and agree with Israel and West/Russia and keep peace in the region.
Assad is a bad "manager", he should have been thrown away long ago and Russia should not have supported him. But what was proposed as an alternative? Several mobs of jihaddists and armed thugs called "democratic forces" or "free army", etc. ? Come on, we see this situation (chaos) in Lybia.
Based on these contradictions, Iran increases its influence. Assad is now about 2/3 puppet of Iran and only 1/3 of Russia.
IMHO, it is of the first importance to keep Syria as a secular state. Only in this case it is possible to talk and agree with Israel and West/Russia and keep peace in the region.
Assad is a bad "manager", he should have been thrown away long ago and Russia should not have supported him. But what was proposed as an alternative? Several mobs of jihaddists and armed thugs called "democratic forces" or "free army", etc. ? Come on, we see this situation (chaos) in Lybia.
Based on these contradictions, Iran increases its influence. Assad is now about 2/3 puppet of Iran and only 1/3 of Russia.
I seem to recall that in about 2002, a few vocal opponents of going into Iraq argued that the actual strategic problem for the US in the Persian Gulf area was Iran, and that taking down Iraq would only be doing Iran a favor. Focusing on higher priority problems in the region was the better idea.
Hmm. It looks like General Zinni was right. And now that I think of it, I think he's right again (along with James Stavridis)
Hmm. It looks like General Zinni was right. And now that I think of it, I think he's right again (along with James Stavridis)
You can see the Russian propaganda machine in full flow with the Ministry of Defence briefing. I've quoted the full statement for those not wanting to click on a Russian Ministry of Defence link.
Note in order to claim missiles shot down they have completely fabricated attack on airfields. I've highlighted them in bold. Also note that they claim that B-1Bs dropped GBU-38 (JDAM variant) and that F-15 and F-16 launched air to surface missiles.
The following link is Russian Ministry of Defence.
http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/count...2171300@egNews
Chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the Russian General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy holds briefing for mass media
Note in order to claim missiles shot down they have completely fabricated attack on airfields. I've highlighted them in bold. Also note that they claim that B-1Bs dropped GBU-38 (JDAM variant) and that F-15 and F-16 launched air to surface missiles.
The US alongside its allies conducted a missile strike by its air and naval carriers targeting military and civil facilities of the Syrian Arab Republic on April 14 in the period from 3.42 am till 5.10 am (MSK).
The Russian air defence systems at the Khmeimim and Tartus air base timely located and controlled all naval and air launches made by the USA and the UK.
Announced French aircraft have not been registered by the Russian air defence systems.
It is reported that the B-1B, F-15 and F-16 aircraft of the USAF as well as the Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF over the Mediterranean Sea, and the USS Laboon and USS Monterey located in the Red Sea were used during the operation.
The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf illegally seized by the USA.
A number Syrian military airfields, industrial and research facilities suffered the missile-bomb strike.
As preliminary reported, there are no civilian casualties and losses among the Syrian Arab Army (SAA). Information will be further specified and made public.
As evident by the available data, 103 cruise missiles have been launched, including Tomahawk naval-based missiles as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B; the F-15 and F-16 aircraft launched air-to-surface missiles.
The Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF launched eight Scalp EG missiles.
The Syrian air defence systems, which are primarily the USSR-made AD systems, have successfully countered the air and naval strikes.
In total, 71 cruise missiles have been intercepted. The S-125, S-200, Buk, Kvadrat, and Osa Syrian AD systems were involved in repelling the attack.
It proves high efficiency of the Syrian armament and professional skills of the Syrian servicemen trained by the Russian specialists.
Over the last eighteen months, Russia has completely recovered the Syrian air defence systems, and continues its development.
It is to be stressed that several years ago given the strong request by our western partners, Russia opted out of supplying the S-300 AD systems to Syria. Taking into account the recent incident, Russia believes it possible to reconsider this issue not only regarding Syria but other countries as well.
The strike targeted Syrian air bases as well. Russia has registered the following data.
Four missiles targeted the Damascus International Airport; 12 missiles – the Al-Dumayr airdrome, all the missiles have been shot down.
18 missiles targeted the Blai airdrome, all the missiles shot down.
12 missiles targeted the Shayrat air base, all the missiles shot down. Air bases were not affected by the strike.
Five out of nine missiles were shot down targeting the unoccupied Mazzeh airdrome.
Thirteen out of sixteen missiles were shot down targeting the Homs airdrome. There are no heavy destructions.
In total 30 missiles targeted facilities near Barzah and Jaramana. Seven of them have been shot down. These facilities allegedly relating to the so-called “Damascus military chemical programme” were partially destructed. However, the objects have not been used for a long time, so there were no people and equipment there.
The Russian air defence systems have been alerted. Fighter jets are on combat air patrol now.
There were no cruise missiles entering the Russian AD responsibility area. The Russian air defence systems were not applied.
Russia considers the strike to be a response to the success of the Syrian Armed Forces in fighting international terrorism and liberating its territory, rather than a response to the alleged chemical attack.
Besides, the attack took place on a day when the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) special mission was to start working on investigating incident in the city of Douma where chemical attack allegedly occurred.
It is to be stressed that there are no facilities on producing chemical weapons in Syria, and this has been documented by the OPCW.
The American aggression proves that the USA is not interested in objectivity of the ongoing investigation, seeks to wreck peaceful settlement in Syria and destabilize environment in the Middle East, and all these have nothing to do with declared objectives of countering international terrorism.
Currently the situation in Damascus and other settlements is assessed to be stable.The environment is being monitored.
The Russian air defence systems at the Khmeimim and Tartus air base timely located and controlled all naval and air launches made by the USA and the UK.
Announced French aircraft have not been registered by the Russian air defence systems.
It is reported that the B-1B, F-15 and F-16 aircraft of the USAF as well as the Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF over the Mediterranean Sea, and the USS Laboon and USS Monterey located in the Red Sea were used during the operation.
The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf illegally seized by the USA.
A number Syrian military airfields, industrial and research facilities suffered the missile-bomb strike.
As preliminary reported, there are no civilian casualties and losses among the Syrian Arab Army (SAA). Information will be further specified and made public.
As evident by the available data, 103 cruise missiles have been launched, including Tomahawk naval-based missiles as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B; the F-15 and F-16 aircraft launched air-to-surface missiles.
The Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF launched eight Scalp EG missiles.
The Syrian air defence systems, which are primarily the USSR-made AD systems, have successfully countered the air and naval strikes.
In total, 71 cruise missiles have been intercepted. The S-125, S-200, Buk, Kvadrat, and Osa Syrian AD systems were involved in repelling the attack.
It proves high efficiency of the Syrian armament and professional skills of the Syrian servicemen trained by the Russian specialists.
Over the last eighteen months, Russia has completely recovered the Syrian air defence systems, and continues its development.
It is to be stressed that several years ago given the strong request by our western partners, Russia opted out of supplying the S-300 AD systems to Syria. Taking into account the recent incident, Russia believes it possible to reconsider this issue not only regarding Syria but other countries as well.
The strike targeted Syrian air bases as well. Russia has registered the following data.
Four missiles targeted the Damascus International Airport; 12 missiles – the Al-Dumayr airdrome, all the missiles have been shot down.
18 missiles targeted the Blai airdrome, all the missiles shot down.
12 missiles targeted the Shayrat air base, all the missiles shot down. Air bases were not affected by the strike.
Five out of nine missiles were shot down targeting the unoccupied Mazzeh airdrome.
Thirteen out of sixteen missiles were shot down targeting the Homs airdrome. There are no heavy destructions.
In total 30 missiles targeted facilities near Barzah and Jaramana. Seven of them have been shot down. These facilities allegedly relating to the so-called “Damascus military chemical programme” were partially destructed. However, the objects have not been used for a long time, so there were no people and equipment there.
The Russian air defence systems have been alerted. Fighter jets are on combat air patrol now.
There were no cruise missiles entering the Russian AD responsibility area. The Russian air defence systems were not applied.
Russia considers the strike to be a response to the success of the Syrian Armed Forces in fighting international terrorism and liberating its territory, rather than a response to the alleged chemical attack.
Besides, the attack took place on a day when the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) special mission was to start working on investigating incident in the city of Douma where chemical attack allegedly occurred.
It is to be stressed that there are no facilities on producing chemical weapons in Syria, and this has been documented by the OPCW.
The American aggression proves that the USA is not interested in objectivity of the ongoing investigation, seeks to wreck peaceful settlement in Syria and destabilize environment in the Middle East, and all these have nothing to do with declared objectives of countering international terrorism.
Currently the situation in Damascus and other settlements is assessed to be stable.The environment is being monitored.
http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/count...2171300@egNews
Chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the Russian General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy holds briefing for mass media
They probably didn’t have much choice in making-up non-existent attacks that were miraculously saved by SAMs - the smoking holes at the declared targets were just too difficult to hide.
I do wonder if anyone in Russia believes this stuff. The coalition announces the location of the strikes immediately after the attack which, days later and with independent images, turn out to be a complete success. Meanwhile the coalition (allegedly and simultaneously) conducts other attacks that they do not include in the announcement and, coincidentally, these mystery targets are completely shielded by their air defence systems. Yeah, right.
The Russian propaganda machine made a strange choice in claiming tactical aircraft dropped free-fall weapons though. The absence of successful SAM engagements against these mystery aircraft is also going to be difficult to explain.
I do wonder if anyone in Russia believes this stuff. The coalition announces the location of the strikes immediately after the attack which, days later and with independent images, turn out to be a complete success. Meanwhile the coalition (allegedly and simultaneously) conducts other attacks that they do not include in the announcement and, coincidentally, these mystery targets are completely shielded by their air defence systems. Yeah, right.
The Russian propaganda machine made a strange choice in claiming tactical aircraft dropped free-fall weapons though. The absence of successful SAM engagements against these mystery aircraft is also going to be difficult to explain.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 65
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you please elaborate more on what you wrote?
It was written in the Russian "propaganda" (quoted by TEEEJ) that
"F-15 and F-16 aircraft launched air-to-surface missiles. The Tornado airplanes of the UK RAF launched eight Scalp EG missiles."
Isn't it true that both F-15, F-16 and Tornado can carry A2S missiles?
Or, do you call SCALP and, e.g. AGM-158B and likes "free fall weapons"?
Neither the above aircraft were threatening (long-range) Russian SAMs in north-western part of Syria (as it was agreed prior to the strike), so there was no need to use them at all.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Van,
Perhaps you missed the part of the briefing that said:
“The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf”...
“....as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B”.
If you are unfamiliar, the GBU-38 is a free-fall LGB.....
GBU-38 JDAM
Perhaps you missed the part of the briefing that said:
“The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf”...
“....as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B”.
If you are unfamiliar, the GBU-38 is a free-fall LGB.....
GBU-38 JDAM
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 65
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Van,
Perhaps you missed the part of the briefing that said:
“The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf”...
“....as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B”.
If you are unfamiliar, the GBU-38 is a free-fall LGB.....
GBU-38 JDAM
Perhaps you missed the part of the briefing that said:
“The B-1B strategic bombers approached the facilities over the Syrian territory near al-Tanf”...
“....as well as GBU-38 guided air bombs fired from the B-1B”.
If you are unfamiliar, the GBU-38 is a free-fall LGB.....
GBU-38 JDAM
In fact the point of my misunderstanding was that Just This Once... wrote that "....claiming tactical aircraft dropped free-fall weapons ....."
Since the time when B-1 (and then B-1B) was introduced, I was thinking that it was a strategic bomber.
Some sources confirm this, e.g. the following one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_B-1_Lancer
It says that "It is one of three strategic bombers in the U.S. Air Force fleet as of 2018, the other two being the B-2"Stealth Bomber", and the B-52".
BTW, it was written today in a Russian media that two US missiles were found more or less as whole pieces on the Syrian territory after the attack. They were transported to Russia and are now being examined by experts.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The B-1 was designed as a strategic bomber, But the B-1B has been pretty much just a tactical bomber since GWI and the disbandment of SAC; used in the same way the Russian Air Force uses the T-22M.
Think about it, A Van?
There was no warning given to the Russians about the strikes on the targets. The Russians are claiming that there was repelled strikes on a number of airfields. Do you really think that the US would risk having Russian forces based at those airfields being caught up and suffering casualties? The whole aim of the strikes on carefully selected targets was to prevent such casualties and allow for no prior warning.
One of those airfields with a claimed successfully repelled attack was Shayrat. The same airfield that was targetted by the US during April 2017. The Russians were warned before hand of the 2017 strike and I believe they were given a 90 minute warning. In addition to the warning the Hardened Aircraft Shelters and the surrounding areas where the Russian helicopter fleet was located was untargeted.
The same goes for those other claimed airfields. Without a warning think of the risk of Russian forces being caught up? Think of the consequences of such a situation? It would have played straight into Putin's hands and the risk of escalation and retaliaton.
The Russians did the same with the 2017 TLAM strike on Shayrat. For propaganda purposes they briefed that only 23 TLAMs out of 59 had hit Shayrat.
Can you not see that the Russian Ministry of Defence have to create these fabrications and that if you believe them you are being played? They did the same during Soviet times for the 1986 raid on Libya. It is just embarrassing for these Russian top brass to be made to go out and spin the spin.
Even in the face of the post strike satellite imagery and analysis of the 2017 Shayrat strike the Russians still stuck with the 23 hits only.
Satellite imagery and analysis at following link.
ISI first to analyze Shayrat airfield missile attack - ISI
A Van wrote
Yes it is possible that some missiles malfunctioned. Just the same as some of the Russian cruise missiles that crashed relatively intact in both Iran and Syria. What you have to factor in with these claims is that it is just a fabricated story. Think of the propaganda value of a Ministry of Defence enhanced briefing showing these missiles with all the details?
What I think has happened here is that some of the Russian media have got hold of the following image and the spin continues.
These are actually two Soviet era R-40 AA-6 Acrid. No fins on them and still with the protective caps. Likely abandoned on one of the Syrian airfields.
There was no warning given to the Russians about the strikes on the targets. The Russians are claiming that there was repelled strikes on a number of airfields. Do you really think that the US would risk having Russian forces based at those airfields being caught up and suffering casualties? The whole aim of the strikes on carefully selected targets was to prevent such casualties and allow for no prior warning.
One of those airfields with a claimed successfully repelled attack was Shayrat. The same airfield that was targetted by the US during April 2017. The Russians were warned before hand of the 2017 strike and I believe they were given a 90 minute warning. In addition to the warning the Hardened Aircraft Shelters and the surrounding areas where the Russian helicopter fleet was located was untargeted.
The same goes for those other claimed airfields. Without a warning think of the risk of Russian forces being caught up? Think of the consequences of such a situation? It would have played straight into Putin's hands and the risk of escalation and retaliaton.
The Russians did the same with the 2017 TLAM strike on Shayrat. For propaganda purposes they briefed that only 23 TLAMs out of 59 had hit Shayrat.
Can you not see that the Russian Ministry of Defence have to create these fabrications and that if you believe them you are being played? They did the same during Soviet times for the 1986 raid on Libya. It is just embarrassing for these Russian top brass to be made to go out and spin the spin.
Even in the face of the post strike satellite imagery and analysis of the 2017 Shayrat strike the Russians still stuck with the 23 hits only.
Satellite imagery and analysis at following link.
ISI first to analyze Shayrat airfield missile attack - ISI
A Van wrote
BTW, it was written today in a Russian media that two US missiles were found more or less as whole pieces on the Syrian territory after the attack. They were transported to Russia and are now being examined by experts.
What I think has happened here is that some of the Russian media have got hold of the following image and the spin continues.
These are actually two Soviet era R-40 AA-6 Acrid. No fins on them and still with the protective caps. Likely abandoned on one of the Syrian airfields.
The START treaty removed the strategic role from the Bone and a bunch of Russian officers get to inspect the aircraft every year to confirm it.
It’s tactical role just gets bigger - now with added maritime capabilities too.
It’s tactical role just gets bigger - now with added maritime capabilities too.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
What goes up must come down. It the SADS launched missiles wholesale it is quite possible they bombed their own airfields.
It can perform either role (tactical bomber or strategic bomber) though noting JTO's point on START is worthwhile. You may find it interesting that for a while, B-1's were tasked with close air support in a couple of our operations. They did OK, but the ground guys always expressed a preference for A-10's. (Go figure).
The photo of Russian made AA-6 missiles is typical. Surely there are many folk in Russia who would instantly recognise them and those that don’t must find it odd for 2 supposedly shotdown missiles landed next to each other with one of them magically refitting its ‘remove before flight’ cover?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The photo of Russian made AA-6 missiles is typical. Surely there are many folk in Russia who would instantly recognise them and those that don’t must find it odd for 2 supposedly shotdown missiles landed next to each other with one of them magically refitting its ‘remove before flight’ cover?
Sure.. write to the papers and point it out...... and put yr affairs in order.....
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are some mighty gullible people who post here. Just sayin'.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Is it my imagination but has the missile strike more or less dropped off the news circuits?
In other words Russian maskirovka either succeeded or is wasted as the media soon forgets it anyway.
In other words Russian maskirovka either succeeded or is wasted as the media soon forgets it anyway.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Less than, shall we say, complementary by the Russians of their allies......
Assad is in a weaker position than most think
“.......“The Syrians can’t fight,” said one commander. “I’ve seen it many times. At the drop of a hat they’ll abandon their positions and flee. ‘Go, go, Russia, go!’ they’ll yell. Where are you going, god damn it, let’s defend the position! But no. When there’s an assault, for instance, we’ll take the high ground, hand it over to the Syrians in the evening, come morning, no Syrians.”
The Russians regard the poor fighting capacity of the regime forces as connected to what they see as moral failings. “It’s a grotesque country,” said the commander to RFE/RL. “Faggotry flourishes there. They’ve all got it to a man.” The depletion of fighting-age men in regime areas has been a massive problem, and apparently drives the unwillingness to fight: “I ask one of the translators: ‘Why do your boys not want to fight?’ ‘Oh’, he says, ‘many of our boys have been killed in the war. We need some to stay alive to **** some girls so there will be children’. ‘Look, let us **** your girls’, I say, ‘and you guys go fight. It’s your country’. ‘No’, he says, ‘we need to preserve our blood’. What blood? Your gay blood?”
In another interview by the Estonian public broadcaster’s Russian-language channel, a Wagner fighter named Oleg also discusses how it was impossible to get the Syrians to fight – even when the Russians would shoot at their feet. The Russians had to undertake all assaults under Syrian friendly fire and lost staggering amounts of men thanks to regime incompetence. “God forbid one should have such allies,” he said, “because they always **** up every task. Always.” An Izvestia interview in October with a Russian special forces officer in October paints a similar picture. “We have to instruct them to let us return from the battlefield and not open fire and kill us … Sometimes you’ll say ‘run!’ while they’re getting shot at and they can’t move—their legs have turned to rubber. Sometimes they start crying.”........
“The skill level of the Syrian army is less than nonexistent, one could say,” says another fighter. “The Russians give tanks to the Syrians, the Syrians give the tanks to ISIS, the Russians come and take the tanks back from ISIS … give them back to the Syrians again … and the cycle restarts.” Similar reports have come from Assad’s Iranian allies. Journalist Sulome Anderson quotes some Iranian-backed Hezbollah sources calling Assad’s forces “garbage people” and “sons of bitches.” One Hezbollah captain told her: “If you have 600 Syrians before a battle, when the battle starts you’ll have six.”.........
Assad is in a weaker position than most think
“.......“The Syrians can’t fight,” said one commander. “I’ve seen it many times. At the drop of a hat they’ll abandon their positions and flee. ‘Go, go, Russia, go!’ they’ll yell. Where are you going, god damn it, let’s defend the position! But no. When there’s an assault, for instance, we’ll take the high ground, hand it over to the Syrians in the evening, come morning, no Syrians.”
The Russians regard the poor fighting capacity of the regime forces as connected to what they see as moral failings. “It’s a grotesque country,” said the commander to RFE/RL. “Faggotry flourishes there. They’ve all got it to a man.” The depletion of fighting-age men in regime areas has been a massive problem, and apparently drives the unwillingness to fight: “I ask one of the translators: ‘Why do your boys not want to fight?’ ‘Oh’, he says, ‘many of our boys have been killed in the war. We need some to stay alive to **** some girls so there will be children’. ‘Look, let us **** your girls’, I say, ‘and you guys go fight. It’s your country’. ‘No’, he says, ‘we need to preserve our blood’. What blood? Your gay blood?”
In another interview by the Estonian public broadcaster’s Russian-language channel, a Wagner fighter named Oleg also discusses how it was impossible to get the Syrians to fight – even when the Russians would shoot at their feet. The Russians had to undertake all assaults under Syrian friendly fire and lost staggering amounts of men thanks to regime incompetence. “God forbid one should have such allies,” he said, “because they always **** up every task. Always.” An Izvestia interview in October with a Russian special forces officer in October paints a similar picture. “We have to instruct them to let us return from the battlefield and not open fire and kill us … Sometimes you’ll say ‘run!’ while they’re getting shot at and they can’t move—their legs have turned to rubber. Sometimes they start crying.”........
“The skill level of the Syrian army is less than nonexistent, one could say,” says another fighter. “The Russians give tanks to the Syrians, the Syrians give the tanks to ISIS, the Russians come and take the tanks back from ISIS … give them back to the Syrians again … and the cycle restarts.” Similar reports have come from Assad’s Iranian allies. Journalist Sulome Anderson quotes some Iranian-backed Hezbollah sources calling Assad’s forces “garbage people” and “sons of bitches.” One Hezbollah captain told her: “If you have 600 Syrians before a battle, when the battle starts you’ll have six.”.........