Here it comes: Syria
Salute!
I love that question about friendly airraft being painted by radar. Love it.
Up to me I would have told the "reporter" nope, they didn't even know we were there until the bombs and missiles hit........ next question.
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Over at Tyler's blog, lotta tweets and intell being updated at good intervals:
The War Zone - The Drive
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Gotta tellya, that looking at one of the targets destruction, that Allies must have super warheads if the Syrians shot down most of the missiles. I saw the long video from Syrian "Ministry of Truth", and only saw one "hit" by a Syrian missile and plenty of launches.
If they used SA-6 systems, or a more modern version that used doppler for guidance on the missile, then they should have engaged and shot down many cruise missiles.
Our Israeli students in the only group IAF sent had a vet or two from the Yom Kippur episode. They were fighter/attack pilots checking out in the Viper, circa mid to late 1980. The SA-6 was a beast and they said you could not get low enuf to defeat it. Nevertheless, they found two ways to defeat the thing and I employed one in the mid 80's at Red Flag to escape and hit the tgt. The easiest way was to taxi a tank up to the sucker and blow it to kingdom come. The other eay was to "beam" it, then get closer and blow it up yourself.
Bear in mind that the SA-6 shot down our F-117 in the Balkans. It may be old, but the sucker works. The biggie is the integration of the air defense system to pass on the tgt to the missile battery and so forth. I flew against the best IAD the world has seen, and it was not in the mideast.. The Vee had plenty of practice, as we flew hundreds of missions up north. I shudder to think of what our losses would have been if they had the SA-6 for the low folks and the SA-4 for the initial folks heading in.
Oh well, I just pray we won't let this thing escalate.
Gums sends...
I love that question about friendly airraft being painted by radar. Love it.
Up to me I would have told the "reporter" nope, they didn't even know we were there until the bombs and missiles hit........ next question.
++++++
Over at Tyler's blog, lotta tweets and intell being updated at good intervals:
The War Zone - The Drive
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gotta tellya, that looking at one of the targets destruction, that Allies must have super warheads if the Syrians shot down most of the missiles. I saw the long video from Syrian "Ministry of Truth", and only saw one "hit" by a Syrian missile and plenty of launches.
If they used SA-6 systems, or a more modern version that used doppler for guidance on the missile, then they should have engaged and shot down many cruise missiles.
Our Israeli students in the only group IAF sent had a vet or two from the Yom Kippur episode. They were fighter/attack pilots checking out in the Viper, circa mid to late 1980. The SA-6 was a beast and they said you could not get low enuf to defeat it. Nevertheless, they found two ways to defeat the thing and I employed one in the mid 80's at Red Flag to escape and hit the tgt. The easiest way was to taxi a tank up to the sucker and blow it to kingdom come. The other eay was to "beam" it, then get closer and blow it up yourself.
Bear in mind that the SA-6 shot down our F-117 in the Balkans. It may be old, but the sucker works. The biggie is the integration of the air defense system to pass on the tgt to the missile battery and so forth. I flew against the best IAD the world has seen, and it was not in the mideast.. The Vee had plenty of practice, as we flew hundreds of missions up north. I shudder to think of what our losses would have been if they had the SA-6 for the low folks and the SA-4 for the initial folks heading in.
Oh well, I just pray we won't let this thing escalate.
Gums sends...
https://www.facebook.com/aerospaceanalysis/
Israel raids Syrian air base
When the Syrian Arab Air Force T4 air base at Tiyas (near the city of Homs) came under attack before dawn on 9 April, Syria’s state TV immediately accused the United States of carrying out the attack. It was initially assumed that it had been mounted in retaliation for the widely reported chemical weapons attack two days earlier in Douma in the Eastern Ghouta region, the last rebel-held enclave in the vicinity of Damascus.
This was perhaps understandable. After a chemical weapons attack on the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun in April 2017, the US fired 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian military air base at Shayrat, which had been used to launch that attack.
Even on the day of the attack against Tiyas, after US and French denials of responsibility, Syria and Russia were soon blaming Israel for the attack. Rather than being a US response to the alleged chemical weapons attack, the air raid was thus part of a wider Israeli effort to counter and contain the Iranian military build-up in Syria. It was not even the first IDF/AF attack against the air base at Tiyas, which has been a particular irritant to Israel.
Israeli sources have said that Tiyas air base incorporates an Iranian military/Revolutionary Guard/Quds facility, and have alleged that the base has been used by Iranian forces to transfer advanced weapons to its Lebanese ally, the Shia militant group Hezbollah.
Tiyas is also believed to have been the launch site for the Iranian drone that made an incursion into Israel in the early hours of 10 February, prompting an IDF/AF attack on what was described as the “command-and-control centre from which Iran had launched the drone, at a Syrian air base near Palmyra.” An Israeli F-16I Sufa was shot down by heavy Syrian anti-aircraft fire, crashing in Northern Israel en route back to its base. Both crew ejected safely.
This was said to be the first Israeli combat aircraft lost to hostile fire in decades.
The weapons used during this attack (and a succession of follow up attacks) were said to have been Israel Military Industries (IMI) Delilah loitering air-launched cruise missiles, launched by Israel Defence Force/Air Force F-16I Sufa and F-15I Ra’am tactical fighters. These 412-lb weapons have a 66-lb warhead and a 160 nautical mile range, compared to the heavier but shorter-ranged Rafael Popeye.
Initial reports suggested that about 20 missiles landed in and around T4, hitting and damaging the ‘maintenance section’ and other areas, destroying a number of drones and causing casualties among Syrian air force and Iranian personnel. It was claimed that the Syrian defences had shot down eight missiles (out of 20 or 28 fired).
Subsequently, estimates as to the size of the raid were scaled back. The Russian Defence Ministry said that two Israeli F-15s had carried out a guided missile air strike on Tiyas air base, launching eight missiles from Lebanese air space in the early hours of Monday, 9 April. Moscow and Damascus claimed that Syrian defences had shot down five of the eight missiles fired, the remaining three hitting the western part of the base – which is understood to be the Iranian enclave.
14 people were killed in the attack, and the Iranian Tasnim news agency said that seven Iranian military personnel had been killed. The Fars news agency said that three of the dead had been members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, though this report was subsequently withdrawn without explanation.
Less than a week later, the US, UK and France mounted co-ordinated air strikes against Syrian targets in direct retaliation for the attack on Douma.
Israel raids Syrian air base
When the Syrian Arab Air Force T4 air base at Tiyas (near the city of Homs) came under attack before dawn on 9 April, Syria’s state TV immediately accused the United States of carrying out the attack. It was initially assumed that it had been mounted in retaliation for the widely reported chemical weapons attack two days earlier in Douma in the Eastern Ghouta region, the last rebel-held enclave in the vicinity of Damascus.
This was perhaps understandable. After a chemical weapons attack on the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun in April 2017, the US fired 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian military air base at Shayrat, which had been used to launch that attack.
Even on the day of the attack against Tiyas, after US and French denials of responsibility, Syria and Russia were soon blaming Israel for the attack. Rather than being a US response to the alleged chemical weapons attack, the air raid was thus part of a wider Israeli effort to counter and contain the Iranian military build-up in Syria. It was not even the first IDF/AF attack against the air base at Tiyas, which has been a particular irritant to Israel.
Israeli sources have said that Tiyas air base incorporates an Iranian military/Revolutionary Guard/Quds facility, and have alleged that the base has been used by Iranian forces to transfer advanced weapons to its Lebanese ally, the Shia militant group Hezbollah.
Tiyas is also believed to have been the launch site for the Iranian drone that made an incursion into Israel in the early hours of 10 February, prompting an IDF/AF attack on what was described as the “command-and-control centre from which Iran had launched the drone, at a Syrian air base near Palmyra.” An Israeli F-16I Sufa was shot down by heavy Syrian anti-aircraft fire, crashing in Northern Israel en route back to its base. Both crew ejected safely.
This was said to be the first Israeli combat aircraft lost to hostile fire in decades.
The weapons used during this attack (and a succession of follow up attacks) were said to have been Israel Military Industries (IMI) Delilah loitering air-launched cruise missiles, launched by Israel Defence Force/Air Force F-16I Sufa and F-15I Ra’am tactical fighters. These 412-lb weapons have a 66-lb warhead and a 160 nautical mile range, compared to the heavier but shorter-ranged Rafael Popeye.
Initial reports suggested that about 20 missiles landed in and around T4, hitting and damaging the ‘maintenance section’ and other areas, destroying a number of drones and causing casualties among Syrian air force and Iranian personnel. It was claimed that the Syrian defences had shot down eight missiles (out of 20 or 28 fired).
Subsequently, estimates as to the size of the raid were scaled back. The Russian Defence Ministry said that two Israeli F-15s had carried out a guided missile air strike on Tiyas air base, launching eight missiles from Lebanese air space in the early hours of Monday, 9 April. Moscow and Damascus claimed that Syrian defences had shot down five of the eight missiles fired, the remaining three hitting the western part of the base – which is understood to be the Iranian enclave.
14 people were killed in the attack, and the Iranian Tasnim news agency said that seven Iranian military personnel had been killed. The Fars news agency said that three of the dead had been members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, though this report was subsequently withdrawn without explanation.
Less than a week later, the US, UK and France mounted co-ordinated air strikes against Syrian targets in direct retaliation for the attack on Douma.
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As reported the airspace was jam packed with aircraft - including tankers, C4I, SEAD, EW and doubtless many CSAR/MV-22 etc.
It was an SA-3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/250th_...issile_Brigade
Both manned aircraft losses (F-117 and F-16) over Yugoslavia during 1999 were by SA-3s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/250th_...issile_Brigade
Both manned aircraft losses (F-117 and F-16) over Yugoslavia during 1999 were by SA-3s.
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Egzacly.
Where's the cock emo when you need it
I think you’ll find it in your sock draw, along with your sense of humor and an understanding of emojis
. I was doing a little mild fishing for the lunatic fringe; Recce Guy, in this case. Regarding this inane comment -
Originally Posted by recceguy View Post
You will notice that US commanders and President Trump now list France before UK,
You will notice that US commanders and President Trump now list France before UK,
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From what I could see from various online tracking sites, significant numbers of RAF MRTT tankers, Typhoons and other aircraft like the R1 Sentinel were active in theater at the time of the attack. It is surprising to me that they weren't mentioned in the initial MoD news release.
Of the eight Royal Air Force No 31 Squadron Tornado GR4s deployed to RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus under Operation Shader, four were involved in the operation. The jets are home based at RAF Marham in Norfolk and are scheduled for retirement next year.
The Tornados were among nine RAF aircraft understood to have participated in the strikes on the chemical weapon facilities on April 14. Each Tornado launched a pair of Storm Shadow cruise missiles at the Him Sinshar chemical weapons storage site, a former Syrian Arab Army missile base, around 15 miles (24km) west of Homs. The coalition believed the site was used for storage of chemical weapons or materials for their manufacture.
The Tornados, which come under the command of 903 Expeditionary Air Wing at RAF Akrotiri, were escorted by four No 6 Squadron Typhoon FGR4s that conducted force combat air patrol (FORCAP) missions. Each Typhoon was armed with two AIM-132 Advanced Short-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (ASRAAMs) and two AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs). The Typhoons secured the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean Sea before, during and after the Tornados launched their Storm Shadows. Voyager KC2 ZZ343 was available for aerial refuelling to keep the Typhoons airborne for almost three hours between 0330hrs and 0630hrs local time.
It is understood that prior to the raid one of four Sentinel R1 Airborne Stand-Off Radar (ASTOR) aircraft of the RAF’s No 5 (Army Cooperation) Squadron was deployed to Akrotiri, arriving on April 12. Sentinel ZJ690 reportedly flew an intelligence-gathering mission in support of the operation. The images taken by its ASARS-2A sensor would have assisted identification of the Him Sinshar chemical weapons storage site and other targets destroyed by cruise missiles from allied forces. It is rumoured that ZJ690 was also used for battle damage assessment (BDA) after the strikes.
The Tornados were among nine RAF aircraft understood to have participated in the strikes on the chemical weapon facilities on April 14. Each Tornado launched a pair of Storm Shadow cruise missiles at the Him Sinshar chemical weapons storage site, a former Syrian Arab Army missile base, around 15 miles (24km) west of Homs. The coalition believed the site was used for storage of chemical weapons or materials for their manufacture.
The Tornados, which come under the command of 903 Expeditionary Air Wing at RAF Akrotiri, were escorted by four No 6 Squadron Typhoon FGR4s that conducted force combat air patrol (FORCAP) missions. Each Typhoon was armed with two AIM-132 Advanced Short-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (ASRAAMs) and two AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs). The Typhoons secured the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean Sea before, during and after the Tornados launched their Storm Shadows. Voyager KC2 ZZ343 was available for aerial refuelling to keep the Typhoons airborne for almost three hours between 0330hrs and 0630hrs local time.
It is understood that prior to the raid one of four Sentinel R1 Airborne Stand-Off Radar (ASTOR) aircraft of the RAF’s No 5 (Army Cooperation) Squadron was deployed to Akrotiri, arriving on April 12. Sentinel ZJ690 reportedly flew an intelligence-gathering mission in support of the operation. The images taken by its ASARS-2A sensor would have assisted identification of the Him Sinshar chemical weapons storage site and other targets destroyed by cruise missiles from allied forces. It is rumoured that ZJ690 was also used for battle damage assessment (BDA) after the strikes.
On the spook side, assets such as two Rivet Joints and a Combat Sent were in theater along with the usual VP and VQ P-8's and EP-3's. An RQ-4B drone out of Sigonella was on station for hours yesterday monitoring any reaction to the attacks:
Heathrow Harry,
Than you obviously didn't listen to the Prime Ministers speech (On TV) following the raid when she did exactly that.
So I guess it's just you...
Than you obviously didn't listen to the Prime Ministers speech (On TV) following the raid when she did exactly that.
So I guess it's just you...
Thread Starter
So, here we go again, assuming the quote reflects an official press release?
Quote: "The Tornados , which come under the command of 903 Expeditionary Air Wing at RAF Akrotiri, were escorted by four No 6 Squadron Typhoon FGR4s that conducted force combat air patrol (FORCAP) missions. Each Typhoon was armed with two AIM-132 Advanced Short-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (ASRAAMs) and two AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs). The Typhoons secured the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean Sea before, during and after the Tornados launched their Storm Shadows".
Apparently then, the Typhoons "escorted" the Tornadoes, providing FORCAP. It also seems they "secured" the Eastern Med airspace. Very interesting. Does this mean that the 4 Typhoon were considered capable of "securing" the airspace in the face of the Russian assets in theatre or, just against the Syrian AD?
OAP
Quote: "The Tornados , which come under the command of 903 Expeditionary Air Wing at RAF Akrotiri, were escorted by four No 6 Squadron Typhoon FGR4s that conducted force combat air patrol (FORCAP) missions. Each Typhoon was armed with two AIM-132 Advanced Short-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (ASRAAMs) and two AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs). The Typhoons secured the airspace over the eastern Mediterranean Sea before, during and after the Tornados launched their Storm Shadows".
Apparently then, the Typhoons "escorted" the Tornadoes, providing FORCAP. It also seems they "secured" the Eastern Med airspace. Very interesting. Does this mean that the 4 Typhoon were considered capable of "securing" the airspace in the face of the Russian assets in theatre or, just against the Syrian AD?
OAP
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It's the rest of the UK that I was thinking of..................... not a peep
OAP,
I think you’re being a bit naive by expecting questions such as yours (‘can Typhoons operate in the face of S400?’) to be answered in the public domain. Generically, I would expect a CAP to have been placed to deter Syrian or Russian ac from making westbound excursions that might have threatened the Tornados at the easternmost point of their routes (which wouldn’t have been very far east in any case so the CAP could easily have been filling a ‘detached escort’ function overhead Akrotiri). This would also have deterred any potential threat to Akrotiri itself. While the Tornados would have been able to fly under the S400 radar horizon, that wouldn’t have been an option for an effective CAP. As such I don’t think we can infer anything about the Typhoon’s capability or tactics from the publicly-available information - exactly as it should be!
I think you’re being a bit naive by expecting questions such as yours (‘can Typhoons operate in the face of S400?’) to be answered in the public domain. Generically, I would expect a CAP to have been placed to deter Syrian or Russian ac from making westbound excursions that might have threatened the Tornados at the easternmost point of their routes (which wouldn’t have been very far east in any case so the CAP could easily have been filling a ‘detached escort’ function overhead Akrotiri). This would also have deterred any potential threat to Akrotiri itself. While the Tornados would have been able to fly under the S400 radar horizon, that wouldn’t have been an option for an effective CAP. As such I don’t think we can infer anything about the Typhoon’s capability or tactics from the publicly-available information - exactly as it should be!
Maybe it's me but I haven't heard a single word on the radio or TV congratulating the pilots as to their bravery........................
hoss183, back in Gulf War One (the honest one):
WASHINGTON — Navy and Marine Corps pilots launched more than 100 decoys in the first few days of last winter`s air war against Iraq, saturating enemy radar scopes with a confusing mass of blips and drawing anti-aircraft fire.
The glider decoys were launched by strike aircraft as they approached heavily defended areas deep inside Iraq. The deception allowed American jets to strike targets unmolested, according to military and industry officials.
The glider decoys were launched by strike aircraft as they approached heavily defended areas deep inside Iraq. The deception allowed American jets to strike targets unmolested, according to military and industry officials.