The blessed Margaret ..
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Isn't it the case that regarding the Falklands, The Conservative Government was busy removing Britain's Naval presence from the South Atlantic and also in the process of removing UK citizenship from the Falkland Islanders.
I have no desire or wish to insult all those brave souls that served and or were lost. But that War was never about Britain, it was pure Political opportunism at a time when support for the Government was at a very low ebb.
The Conservative win in 1983 was won because 649 Argentine military personnel, 255 British military personnel and 3 Falkland Islanders died and the electorate bought Thatcher's patriotic obfuscation hook line & sinker.
To repeat, no offence whatsoever is intended. Views across the country are amazingly polarised and there's a risk that a State (type) funeral will merely increase this chasm that has been opened.
Even in death, her divide and conquer ethos is still eroding society a society that doesn't exist apparently.......
In my opionion (and I accept that It's inevitably not shared by others), Thatcher was Good for Britain PLC, but bloody awful for the Joe Public Brit.
I have no desire or wish to insult all those brave souls that served and or were lost. But that War was never about Britain, it was pure Political opportunism at a time when support for the Government was at a very low ebb.
The Conservative win in 1983 was won because 649 Argentine military personnel, 255 British military personnel and 3 Falkland Islanders died and the electorate bought Thatcher's patriotic obfuscation hook line & sinker.
To repeat, no offence whatsoever is intended. Views across the country are amazingly polarised and there's a risk that a State (type) funeral will merely increase this chasm that has been opened.
Even in death, her divide and conquer ethos is still eroding society a society that doesn't exist apparently.......
In my opionion (and I accept that It's inevitably not shared by others), Thatcher was Good for Britain PLC, but bloody awful for the Joe Public Brit.
Last edited by Dak Man; 9th Apr 2013 at 13:24.
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My parents, both low paid working class folk, were allowed to buy their council house which was the only way the could of ever afforded their own home.
Dads gone now bless him but mum still lives there so I suspect they might disagree with you on that point
Dads gone now bless him but mum still lives there so I suspect they might disagree with you on that point
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Dak
I disagree re not bout Britain and just being Political opportunism.
It was the right thing to do and she did it.
" removing Britain's Naval presence from the South Atlantic"
How about selling off the Aircraft carriers
I disagree re not bout Britain and just being Political opportunism.
It was the right thing to do and she did it.
" removing Britain's Naval presence from the South Atlantic"
How about selling off the Aircraft carriers
Lots of rose coloured specs here.
Would anyone care to discuss for me:-
3 million unemployed; 15% inflation;
Record house repossessions; Record business closures; Record bankruptcies;
The Poll Tax (her ultimate downfall. The first thing John Major did, to the relief of the entire cabinet, was get rid of it);
Miners strike,closure of pits and now importing coal at exhorbitant prices;
Selling off of nationalised industry (railway, steel, gas, electricity, water - and look how much do they cost us all now);
Breaking the unions - the working class now have no voice in their workplace and either accept their lot or lose their job;
2 recessions in her tenure;
Falklands war (discussed ad nauseum);
TEN YEARS of record North Sea Oil production squandered on a fiscal and political experiment (how else could the country have afforded the record unemployment it carried).
And, closer in time, the truth has finally come out about Hillsborough.
Don't get me wrong (!), I believe ultimately she was good for the country, and lots of people became VERY rich under her tenure, but let's keep it in perspective.
Would anyone care to discuss for me:-
3 million unemployed; 15% inflation;
Record house repossessions; Record business closures; Record bankruptcies;
The Poll Tax (her ultimate downfall. The first thing John Major did, to the relief of the entire cabinet, was get rid of it);
Miners strike,closure of pits and now importing coal at exhorbitant prices;
Selling off of nationalised industry (railway, steel, gas, electricity, water - and look how much do they cost us all now);
Breaking the unions - the working class now have no voice in their workplace and either accept their lot or lose their job;
2 recessions in her tenure;
Falklands war (discussed ad nauseum);
TEN YEARS of record North Sea Oil production squandered on a fiscal and political experiment (how else could the country have afforded the record unemployment it carried).
And, closer in time, the truth has finally come out about Hillsborough.
Don't get me wrong (!), I believe ultimately she was good for the country, and lots of people became VERY rich under her tenure, but let's keep it in perspective.
Last edited by alwayslookingup; 9th Apr 2013 at 14:33.
I don't understand "deconstruct" in the accepted sense of the word, thus:
de·con·struc·tion (dkn-strkshn)
n.
A philosophical movement and theory of literary criticism that questions traditional assumptions about certainty, identity, and truth; asserts that words can only refer to other words; and attempts to demonstrate how statements about any text subvert their own meanings: "In deconstruction, the critic claims there is no meaning to be found in the actual text, but only in the various, often mutually irreconcilable, 'virtual texts' constructed by readers in their search for meaning" (Rebecca Goldstein).
Perhaps you mean "discuss"?
de·con·struc·tion (dkn-strkshn)
n.
A philosophical movement and theory of literary criticism that questions traditional assumptions about certainty, identity, and truth; asserts that words can only refer to other words; and attempts to demonstrate how statements about any text subvert their own meanings: "In deconstruction, the critic claims there is no meaning to be found in the actual text, but only in the various, often mutually irreconcilable, 'virtual texts' constructed by readers in their search for meaning" (Rebecca Goldstein).
Perhaps you mean "discuss"?
Last edited by langleybaston; 9th Apr 2013 at 14:23.
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Deconstruct used as a verb, not a noun, means:
1. to apply the theories of deconstruction to (a text, film, etc)
2. to expose or dismantle the existing structure in (a system, organization, etc)
I suspect ALU used the verb with the meaning "to expose etc etc"
Rgds SOS
1. to apply the theories of deconstruction to (a text, film, etc)
2. to expose or dismantle the existing structure in (a system, organization, etc)
I suspect ALU used the verb with the meaning "to expose etc etc"
Rgds SOS
Last edited by SOSL; 9th Apr 2013 at 14:38. Reason: Spacing
Lets start with:
I believe ultimately she was good for the country
A surprising conclusion if one accepts your list as the results of her sole policy/fault/errors, is it not?
So, which topics on your list were the good aspects, or is there a countervailing list you have in mind please?
I believe ultimately she was good for the country
A surprising conclusion if one accepts your list as the results of her sole policy/fault/errors, is it not?
So, which topics on your list were the good aspects, or is there a countervailing list you have in mind please?
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Miners strike,closure of pits and now importing coal at exhorbitant prices;
From one of my posts in Jet Blast:
Quote:
Deep coal mining in the UK was doomed from the early 50s. Up until that point coal was won mainly by men wielding picks and shovels with the aid of drills and dynamite. Then mechanisation came along.
Mechanisation requires unbroken seams of a reasonable height that go on for ever without being interrupted by geological problems.
With the best will in the world few British mines had that sort of dream situation. Even the mega-pit at Selby hit problems not far into its projected life and is now closed. The mines simply could not compete with the cheap coal being brought out of Europe and now Australia. The leftist apologists surely have to ask themselves how come it is cheaper to mine coal in Australia and then ship it half way round the world to the UK.
But maybe they want to go back to the days of a million men wielding picks and shovels working on coal faces three feet deep or less. Yeah, right on brother.
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Swings and roundabouts, it's still down there, isn't going anywhere and eventually as the rest of the world is mined dry, it will be feasible and cost effective to extract it, which it will....
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Blame game
It wasn't Maggi who closed the pits, it was Arthur Scargill. When he was asked why he didn't you go into politics? his reply,
"I have more power as Leader of the Mineworkers than any politician possesses!". All he wanted to do was bring the government down as Joe Gormley had (who was an intelligent man).
She was a great lady that this country badly needed, may she rest in peace.
"I have more power as Leader of the Mineworkers than any politician possesses!". All he wanted to do was bring the government down as Joe Gormley had (who was an intelligent man).
She was a great lady that this country badly needed, may she rest in peace.
A bit out of sequence, but for those not old enough to have been serving when Mrs Thatcher came to power, you might be interested in some figures which actually show what she did for military pay. The following annual gross salaries start in 78-79 as a third-year flt lt (non-aircrew):
1978-79 £5365
1979-80 £7342
1980-81 £8555
1981-82 £10,252
1982-83 £11,111
Shows how badly off we were before, but also how she recognised how the military had been disregarded and denigrated by previous politicians. It wasn't just the pay, more the recognition of military worth.
1978-79 £5365
1979-80 £7342
1980-81 £8555
1981-82 £10,252
1982-83 £11,111
Shows how badly off we were before, but also how she recognised how the military had been disregarded and denigrated by previous politicians. It wasn't just the pay, more the recognition of military worth.
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Next Wednesday ... Operation True Blue ... How very appropriate. Very glad to see St Clement Danes central to next weeks final tribute.
Anyone attempting to disrupt ... lock them up and loose the key in my book
Anyone attempting to disrupt ... lock them up and loose the key in my book
1970s - also let's not forget
- dead bodies on wards due to nupe strike
- rubbish on the streets for weeks on end due to the bin man strike
- ted rodgers and dusty bin overload due to bbc on strike
Rapant inflation...if you could afford a house in 1976 and went away on tour or contract you couldnt when you came back
The whole thing that made maggie was conviction politics, a belief you had to live with in your means and the courage to see it through. Seems like very strong plus points for me
Now.... Its just i agree with what ever you say politics as i want to be popular and elected.
Personally, love her or hate her i cant understand why people are celevrating her death. It is just so wrong on so many levels. Most of the people i see celebrating were not even a sperm when she was in power.....
- dead bodies on wards due to nupe strike
- rubbish on the streets for weeks on end due to the bin man strike
- ted rodgers and dusty bin overload due to bbc on strike
Rapant inflation...if you could afford a house in 1976 and went away on tour or contract you couldnt when you came back
The whole thing that made maggie was conviction politics, a belief you had to live with in your means and the courage to see it through. Seems like very strong plus points for me
Now.... Its just i agree with what ever you say politics as i want to be popular and elected.
Personally, love her or hate her i cant understand why people are celevrating her death. It is just so wrong on so many levels. Most of the people i see celebrating were not even a sperm when she was in power.....
Red On, Green On
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I was a Midshipman at RAF Leeming on EFTS when the 79 election took place, and I'd been in a dark blue suit for 54 weeks.
My gross pay went from £2600 to £4300 or so in six weeks. One year of seniority pay rise, flying training pay and the 33% pay rise that the AFPRB said we were due.
Beer was about 30p a pint, and I had enough after all deductions for about 1,000 pints a month. Some months I nearly didn't spend it all on beer
My gross pay went from £2600 to £4300 or so in six weeks. One year of seniority pay rise, flying training pay and the 33% pay rise that the AFPRB said we were due.
Beer was about 30p a pint, and I had enough after all deductions for about 1,000 pints a month. Some months I nearly didn't spend it all on beer
Roland, instead of coming up with a list of your own why not comment on a few of mine. Let's start with Hillsborough, a horrible collusion at the highest level (Her) to blame 93 dead people for lamentable failings in policing and crowd safety. And remember, it was her own party (Cabinet) that decided to get rid of her, the Poll Tax proving the final straw.
Take a look at the support in Scotland for the Conservative Party.
In the 1955 General Election it was the only party ever to win more than 50% of the popular vote in Scotland, gaining 36 MPs out of 72. In the 1974 February election it won 21 seats, October of that year 16 seats. In the 1979 election this was back up to 22 seats, 1983 21 seats but by 1987 it had halved to 10 seats under Thatcher. John Major surprisingly managed to rally the troops to hold 11 seats in 1992 but in 1997 we had the almost total destruction of the Conservative party in Scotland, winning only one seat, and it has remained so in the subsequent two General Elections.
Ironically it has taken the introduction of the Scottish Parliament with its proportional electoral system for the Scottish Conservatives to have anything like a political voice in Scotland.
And I would contend the single greatest factor in the fall off of support for the Conservatives in Scotland was Margaret Thatcher, principally her support for the Poll Tax and its introduction in Scotland twelve months earlier than the rest of the UK. Who remembers the Poll Tax riots in Trafalgar Square when the tax was introduced south of the border?
Her greatest single legacy in Scotland has been the rise of Scottish Nationalism.
Take a look at the support in Scotland for the Conservative Party.
In the 1955 General Election it was the only party ever to win more than 50% of the popular vote in Scotland, gaining 36 MPs out of 72. In the 1974 February election it won 21 seats, October of that year 16 seats. In the 1979 election this was back up to 22 seats, 1983 21 seats but by 1987 it had halved to 10 seats under Thatcher. John Major surprisingly managed to rally the troops to hold 11 seats in 1992 but in 1997 we had the almost total destruction of the Conservative party in Scotland, winning only one seat, and it has remained so in the subsequent two General Elections.
Ironically it has taken the introduction of the Scottish Parliament with its proportional electoral system for the Scottish Conservatives to have anything like a political voice in Scotland.
And I would contend the single greatest factor in the fall off of support for the Conservatives in Scotland was Margaret Thatcher, principally her support for the Poll Tax and its introduction in Scotland twelve months earlier than the rest of the UK. Who remembers the Poll Tax riots in Trafalgar Square when the tax was introduced south of the border?
Her greatest single legacy in Scotland has been the rise of Scottish Nationalism.
Last edited by alwayslookingup; 9th Apr 2013 at 17:26.