Bristows to take over SAR from 2015
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Gents,
I think you are both wrong!
I seem to recall that Rescue 01, a Kinloss Nimrod was first on scene, beating all of you. The scene was one of utter destruction, with lots of wreckage visible to us.
Remember the Sub that came up in the search area? And the freighter that ploughed trough the area after refusing to divert around?
A bad night
I think you are both wrong!
I seem to recall that Rescue 01, a Kinloss Nimrod was first on scene, beating all of you. The scene was one of utter destruction, with lots of wreckage visible to us.
Remember the Sub that came up in the search area? And the freighter that ploughed trough the area after refusing to divert around?
A bad night
PR and truth
or you believe the usual RN PR that they are always first at an incident never mind the truth
Never saw a yellow cab all the time we were there (2 days) slept on the floor in Cork hangar protected by 3 SB officers who were armed because we were under threat from the local IRA contingent who had informed the authorities they were looking for a target of opportunity.
Flew 6 hrs 1st day and 9 hrs second day. By day 2 all the bodies had sunk. Interestingly in those days our winch men were also divers and were allowed to disconnect from their winches and swim around. We could see sharks circling and would spend a lot of our time watching for them getting close to the diver! He spent a lot of his time swimming for his life to re-connect and winch up
Our job was one of salvaging any body parts and personal belongings to identify the victims. Some horrific injuries.
The memories of those images stick with me to this day.
[Obviously the timings - don't!].
Everyone knows Fastnet was a Navy experience Albert
Flew 6 hrs 1st day and 9 hrs second day. By day 2 all the bodies had sunk. Interestingly in those days our winch men were also divers and were allowed to disconnect from their winches and swim around. We could see sharks circling and would spend a lot of our time watching for them getting close to the diver! He spent a lot of his time swimming for his life to re-connect and winch up
Our job was one of salvaging any body parts and personal belongings to identify the victims. Some horrific injuries.
The memories of those images stick with me to this day.
[Obviously the timings - don't!].
Everyone knows Fastnet was a Navy experience Albert
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 30th Mar 2013 at 13:17.
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Fastnet - Facts
http://www.blur.se/images/fastnet-race-inquiry.pdf
Some interesting facts in this report, regarding who did what, and when.
Sun.
Some interesting facts in this report, regarding who did what, and when.
Sun.
Thomas coupling
Where you actually there
From my recollection there were 3 yellow Seakings from RAF Brawdy, 1 from RAF Boulmer, 1 Chinook from RAF Odiham, 1 USAF CH53 and I must admit I didn't see any RN presence - did you turn up on the right day or were the film crew not available on the 23 Jun so you came after we had all gone home
HF
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Where you actually there
Never saw a yellow cab all the time we were there (2 days) slept on the floor in Cork hangar protected by 3 SB officers who were armed because we were under threat from the local IRA contingent who had informed the authorities they were looking for a target of opportunity.
HF
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Fastnet
Everyone knows Fastnet was a Navy experience Albert
but not everyone knows that when your local radio was asking for ANY rescue crewmen to report for duty and national TV stations were showing pictures of RN Wessex attempting to offer empty strops to survivors that couldn't get into them due to big waves and exhaustion, filmed I might add by other RN helos, a fully equipped brand new RAF Seaking manned by 202 Sqn RAF crew was ordered to stay on the ground at Culdrose and 'my' three 22 Sqn RAF Wessex at Valley were similarly rejected, since quote "this is a navy show". The latter quote came from RNAS Culdrose via SRCC Mountwise, Plymouth, who until I phoned the contoller to ask why we were not being scrambled when I saw the news on TV, hadn't a clue that anything was going awry! Also a certain 22 Sqn (Wessex) flight commander, who was on leave in Cornwall at the time, offered his services but was rejected by Cdr Air Culdrose. Some yachties died, probably needlessly, lots of medals were awarded and a nice stone memorial erected by Culdose's guardroom but following this
example of RN PR willy waving the RN assets joined the rest of us under NRCC or SRCC opcon. 
Last edited by Al-bert; 30th Mar 2013 at 17:52.
I'm just telling it from where I was sat that day
Military....of, for or pertaining to war. Authorised to use lethal force. I don't accept that simply because an activity is performed by members of the armed forces that it automatically becomes military. I have scoured the thread for examples of activities relating SAR as performed by our yellow hatters to military actions but without success. Perhaps I am missing something here, please can someone just spell it out for me?
My memories of the Air India crash was one of the best traditions of how WE - members of HM Armed Forces and USAF - stepped up to the mark to get the job done. I was captain of Chinook 2 (I think we actually launched three from Odiham, with the first re-rolled with winch and overload tanks ready to go within the hour of the first call). We routed via Chiv (and I think Brawdy) to pick up body bags, and arrived at Cork expecting to go straight out, but by then the search area was filled by RN and RAF Sea Kings and Chinook 1. All the crews were allocated one large room in the hangar to get our heads down prior to launching by dawn the following day,and I certainly remember the RN crews waking us as they got up at some time during the night. We launched to arrive shortly after dawn(with both Kate Adie and her BBC team and the ITV team on board) to relieve an RN SK, but all we found was a cabbage patch doll, as bodies had by now sunk; after a few hours we were retasked just to look for wreckage. Boy were we glad of the Nimrod top cover. We were then relieved by 2 x CH53s and their C-130 air to air refuellers. Another Chinook went out as we RTB'd, but went u/s on route, and we then did another sortie to replace him - 12 hours! Totally kn.....ed at end, and air search called off at end of day. We were then looked after (right royally) by Irish Army in Cork, put up in the base hospital.
All the other ac went home, but we stayed another day, with the aircraft guarded at Cork - and that's how BN got an Irish tricolour zap on the nose!
We went out there and got the job done no matter which service - banter yes, but none of what has now become almost PR warfare as the fight for budgets intensifies.
But we digress; this thread is about the civilianisation of (at the moment) of rotary SAR services. If money was no object I'm sure we (the military) would still be involved, but why shouldn't Bristow do just as good a job? Yes, I have reservations about the East Coast coverage, where the crews will come from, training/replacements and most of all what restrictions will be placed on them by CAA rules and regulations. I hope they will be able to use NVGs from the outset. But until they actually come on line, no one knows what will happen. Another Air India 150 miles off the coast I'm sure they would cope and the military (of all colours) would be there to assist just as quickly. But we are now out of the equation or soon will be; let's not dwell on the past or what might have been, work with them and ensure it is as smooth a handover as possible.
All the other ac went home, but we stayed another day, with the aircraft guarded at Cork - and that's how BN got an Irish tricolour zap on the nose!
We went out there and got the job done no matter which service - banter yes, but none of what has now become almost PR warfare as the fight for budgets intensifies.
But we digress; this thread is about the civilianisation of (at the moment) of rotary SAR services. If money was no object I'm sure we (the military) would still be involved, but why shouldn't Bristow do just as good a job? Yes, I have reservations about the East Coast coverage, where the crews will come from, training/replacements and most of all what restrictions will be placed on them by CAA rules and regulations. I hope they will be able to use NVGs from the outset. But until they actually come on line, no one knows what will happen. Another Air India 150 miles off the coast I'm sure they would cope and the military (of all colours) would be there to assist just as quickly. But we are now out of the equation or soon will be; let's not dwell on the past or what might have been, work with them and ensure it is as smooth a handover as possible.
212man,
Sometimes asking a question that one knows the answer to can be so much fun.
I always understood the "Rules" did not apply when engaged in saving lives! I oft times posed some concern about that mindset thinking there had to be a threshold at which risk to crew became excessive.
We have to remember we can only save the ones we can and there shall be occasions that we cannot save everyone. Deciding when that is....and who you can save....or cannot save is the hard bit.
Sometimes asking a question that one knows the answer to can be so much fun.
I always understood the "Rules" did not apply when engaged in saving lives! I oft times posed some concern about that mindset thinking there had to be a threshold at which risk to crew became excessive.
We have to remember we can only save the ones we can and there shall be occasions that we cannot save everyone. Deciding when that is....and who you can save....or cannot save is the hard bit.
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And SASless, the decision to save the ones you can and the decision to let the ones you can't save, go is the key point.
For this, I am sure you will agree, what is needed is to be clear headed and analytical (I know that it might sound and appear callous), rather than acting out of some expected 'action imperative' which endangers / sacrifices yourself, your crew and others for no benefit.
The decision to pull out and watch the consequences is no fun and can live on with you - however this is merely the point where the right thing just feels wrong - but it is still the best call.
For this, I am sure you will agree, what is needed is to be clear headed and analytical (I know that it might sound and appear callous), rather than acting out of some expected 'action imperative' which endangers / sacrifices yourself, your crew and others for no benefit.
The decision to pull out and watch the consequences is no fun and can live on with you - however this is merely the point where the right thing just feels wrong - but it is still the best call.
Last edited by Finnpog; 31st Mar 2013 at 00:12.
Indeed.....you have to count the ones you bring home....not the ones you cannot.
That is the Achilles Heel of EMS flying....thinking you are the divine power that "saves" folks when all you are is the mechanism by which it happens.
Tis the same in Rescue flying too.
That is the Achilles Heel of EMS flying....thinking you are the divine power that "saves" folks when all you are is the mechanism by which it happens.
Tis the same in Rescue flying too.
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Shackman,
I believe I was the idiot dangling under your Chinook that 'rescued' the Cabbage Patch doll from amongst the blue sharks. Because of the horrendous rotorwash from the Chinook we were winching at around 80ft and the floating object looked like a baby from that height. We also recovered a sonarbuoy and (almost) a sunfish, which looks like a body when floating on its side. As you mentioned, the first day was very long.
The aircraft were fitted with an Andover tank and a rudimentary wet-fit floor (plastic sheeting bodge-taped to the floor), which stripped away as soon as the front cabin door was opened.
I remember the very rare steak we were served in the airport on the first night, which didn't seem appropriate under the circumstances, and the interesting car ride across Cork to the Irish Army barracks. Our driver was desperate to shake of the Special Branch tail, which he achieved by jumping some lights.
Not put off by the experience I was posted to SAR in the same year. To those who suggest that RAF SAR was non-military at that time I say that I totally agree. That's what I liked about it. Each flight was commanded by an older Flt Lt who's only interest was to run a professional and efficient flight rather than creating extraneous work to further his career. Therefore, I totally agree with Al-bert's analysis regarding when the rot set in - when they made RAF SAR a career stepping stone.
I will be sorry to see the demise of RN and RAF SAR, but I understand the requirement to cut costs. I feel really lucky to have been involved in an enjoyable and extremely rewarding job - at the right time.
I believe I was the idiot dangling under your Chinook that 'rescued' the Cabbage Patch doll from amongst the blue sharks. Because of the horrendous rotorwash from the Chinook we were winching at around 80ft and the floating object looked like a baby from that height. We also recovered a sonarbuoy and (almost) a sunfish, which looks like a body when floating on its side. As you mentioned, the first day was very long.
The aircraft were fitted with an Andover tank and a rudimentary wet-fit floor (plastic sheeting bodge-taped to the floor), which stripped away as soon as the front cabin door was opened.
I remember the very rare steak we were served in the airport on the first night, which didn't seem appropriate under the circumstances, and the interesting car ride across Cork to the Irish Army barracks. Our driver was desperate to shake of the Special Branch tail, which he achieved by jumping some lights.
Not put off by the experience I was posted to SAR in the same year. To those who suggest that RAF SAR was non-military at that time I say that I totally agree. That's what I liked about it. Each flight was commanded by an older Flt Lt who's only interest was to run a professional and efficient flight rather than creating extraneous work to further his career. Therefore, I totally agree with Al-bert's analysis regarding when the rot set in - when they made RAF SAR a career stepping stone.
I will be sorry to see the demise of RN and RAF SAR, but I understand the requirement to cut costs. I feel really lucky to have been involved in an enjoyable and extremely rewarding job - at the right time.
Huzza!
PB (et al)
Nice to hear from you again. Dangling on the wire - so nicely put - was by no means an idiot's job, and even though I did it many times both before and after, purely for experience you understand, I knew where I'd rather be. I also remember the picture on the front page of the Telegraph the following day of the doll being carried into the 'ops' caravan at Cork. However, it reiterates my feeling about SAR; it is a CREW job, you must all work together to make it happen, and I have no doubt what is to come will equally work to make it happen.
Equally I echo TC's entry above.
PS - I thought my Flight Commanders were quite young Flt Lts!!
Nice to hear from you again. Dangling on the wire - so nicely put - was by no means an idiot's job, and even though I did it many times both before and after, purely for experience you understand, I knew where I'd rather be. I also remember the picture on the front page of the Telegraph the following day of the doll being carried into the 'ops' caravan at Cork. However, it reiterates my feeling about SAR; it is a CREW job, you must all work together to make it happen, and I have no doubt what is to come will equally work to make it happen.
Equally I echo TC's entry above.
PS - I thought my Flight Commanders were quite young Flt Lts!!
Last edited by Shackman; 31st Mar 2013 at 16:18.
Ploughman'sBreakfast
I was still under 38 when I was a Flt Cdr so, like Al-bert less of the older Flt Lt though I admit I did look younger than Al-bert
As for furthering my career I did manage to get the flight a photocopier after reams of paperwork
I now relax on my snow lounger and watch Lossie's Seaking fly past and think - "they were getting on when I flew them and that was 23yrs ago so they have done very well!"
I am sure the new civilian breed of SAR crews will do as well as we did. I just hope that their management supports them as well as we were supported by ours when we did use the helicopter for "good PR" purposes which were not strictly SAR. I am not convinced though after the recent "meat buying stop off" in a S92 where crews were sacked/demoted until CHC saw the bad PR they got and reinstated the pilots.
HF
Each flight was commanded by an older Flt Lt who's only interest was to run a professional and efficient flight rather than creating extraneous work to further his career.
As for furthering my career I did manage to get the flight a photocopier after reams of paperwork
I now relax on my snow lounger and watch Lossie's Seaking fly past and think - "they were getting on when I flew them and that was 23yrs ago so they have done very well!"
I am sure the new civilian breed of SAR crews will do as well as we did. I just hope that their management supports them as well as we were supported by ours when we did use the helicopter for "good PR" purposes which were not strictly SAR. I am not convinced though after the recent "meat buying stop off" in a S92 where crews were sacked/demoted until CHC saw the bad PR they got and reinstated the pilots.
HF
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No offence intended. 'Older' was certainly meant as a compliment (especially as I now find myself in that category). In my experience they tended to be dependable, worldly-wise unflappable sorts who, in general, didn't want to set the world on fire, but were highly professional aviators nonetheless. Phew! I think I might have got away with that.