Red Arrows for the Chop?
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The RAF will offer up the Red Arrows knowing it's not something any politician wants to cut
The T2 notion
There was a question I was going to pose on here a week ago and would the Reds upgrade to the T2, considering the T1's days would be numbered somewhere I read (maybe in AFM recently regarding the 4 Sqn article)
I agree with Clockwork that the perceived saving of 8 mil per annum is a drop in the ocean considering the amount that has been perceived to be wasted and still is on not necessary projects and stuff and consultants.
On a social scale look at this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...500m-year.html
In theory, solve the above and may (a very big 'may' or 'if; ) help out the economy of the UK in its present state.
When I was at school, over 2 decades ago
, one of the debating societies from the different boarding houses , had a topic which was "Should we keep the Monarchy or not" and one question raised was it worth all that money and what does the Monarchy do for us and value for money.
The point is if you scrap the Reds, might as well make this a republic and get rid of the Royal Family. They're both great Ambassadors both foreign and domestic and morale boosters. For example not so fortunate, bringing a smile to someone who for example is young and terminally ill who gets a chance to visit the Reds at an airshow and sit in the Hawk cockpit (real or mockup for the recruiting team) or have a visit from Kate to a hospice or ward will boost morale and hope.
IMHO, the Reds would be even better if they could upgrade with the T2 and it be great for promoting BAe and I think someone said on here that its the likes of BAe contribute towards the costs of overseas tours (?)
In terms of cost effectiveness, the immediate re equipping of the new T2? Perhaps as the Valley set up is half from Ascent, so maybe run the Reds with Ascent's help could help economically?? I may be blowing hot air from the Adour
here but if the threat to bin the Reds is seen to be very real then any method of saving whats left of the family jewels should be considered
Cheers
I agree with Clockwork that the perceived saving of 8 mil per annum is a drop in the ocean considering the amount that has been perceived to be wasted and still is on not necessary projects and stuff and consultants.
On a social scale look at this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...500m-year.html
In theory, solve the above and may (a very big 'may' or 'if; ) help out the economy of the UK in its present state.
When I was at school, over 2 decades ago
, one of the debating societies from the different boarding houses , had a topic which was "Should we keep the Monarchy or not" and one question raised was it worth all that money and what does the Monarchy do for us and value for money.The point is if you scrap the Reds, might as well make this a republic and get rid of the Royal Family. They're both great Ambassadors both foreign and domestic and morale boosters. For example not so fortunate, bringing a smile to someone who for example is young and terminally ill who gets a chance to visit the Reds at an airshow and sit in the Hawk cockpit (real or mockup for the recruiting team) or have a visit from Kate to a hospice or ward will boost morale and hope.
IMHO, the Reds would be even better if they could upgrade with the T2 and it be great for promoting BAe and I think someone said on here that its the likes of BAe contribute towards the costs of overseas tours (?)
In terms of cost effectiveness, the immediate re equipping of the new T2? Perhaps as the Valley set up is half from Ascent, so maybe run the Reds with Ascent's help could help economically?? I may be blowing hot air from the Adour
here but if the threat to bin the Reds is seen to be very real then any method of saving whats left of the family jewels should be consideredCheers
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It's just the usual.....
In my pre-life, when I worked in one of the places where "the staff who are not at the pointy end" do nothing, there were always questions about how money could be saved. This process went under the heading of....Alternative Assumptions. Of course I can't say anything about the process, indeed, I'll most likely be boiled in oil in my next life, but it was based upon the premise "that nothing is sacrosanct".
So, every year, someone would propose that the Reds should be disestablished. How far would the proposal get? Probably not much further than 500 yards from the DGs front door,
but who knows? Does the process still occur?
about the process, indeed, I'll most likely be boiled in oil in my next life, but it was based upon the premise "that nothing is sacrosanct". So, every year, someone would propose that the Reds should be disestablished. How far would the proposal get? Probably not much further than 500 yards from the DGs front door,
but who knows? Does the process still occur?
If we want to look at PR, for £8M we could offer 6x 30 minute air experience flights in small aircraft like a Grob Vigilant (which can be operated at around £100/hr at most flying/gliding clubs) to every single one of our ~25,000 schools each [U]year[/U ]in the UK. Now how's that for PR?
For £8M we could do sooooooo much more than a bunch of 40 year old jets burning red, white and blue kerosene for 10 minutes over a crowd's heads. As for the Olympics, we could have used Typhoons (without all the worries over single engines flying over London). Even a four ship arrival followed by a 90 nose up zoom climb in full burner over the Olympic Stadium would have been a great spectacle as well (IMHO). Also, for HM Queen's Jubilee, the best thing I thought was the "EIIR" formation and that didn't cost £8M.
Genuine question: Other than flying 9x Hawks and a spare in formation, what else would anyone else do with £8M to provide a PR spectacle for the RAF?
LJ
For £8M we could do sooooooo much more than a bunch of 40 year old jets burning red, white and blue kerosene for 10 minutes over a crowd's heads. As for the Olympics, we could have used Typhoons (without all the worries over single engines flying over London). Even a four ship arrival followed by a 90 nose up zoom climb in full burner over the Olympic Stadium would have been a great spectacle as well (IMHO). Also, for HM Queen's Jubilee, the best thing I thought was the "EIIR" formation and that didn't cost £8M.
Genuine question: Other than flying 9x Hawks and a spare in formation, what else would anyone else do with £8M to provide a PR spectacle for the RAF?
LJ
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"Genuine question: Other than flying 9x Hawks and a spare in formation, what else would anyone else do with £8M to provide a PR spectacle for the RAF?"
Probably a few adverts of a quic fly buy at a few shows.
Easily forgotten until the next advert comes on.
With the Red Arrows, the people at the actual event see and remember them,
they then get coverage in the local newspapers and on local TV (and maybe national).
So in terms of exposure as advertising people would say, the RAF
probably gets good bang for it's buck.
Putting 8 mil back into the pot would just be a small drop, hardly noticed
- that is IF the RAF kept it once they were gone, surely more likely that
the money would be cut from the budget ?
Probably a few adverts of a quic fly buy at a few shows.
Easily forgotten until the next advert comes on.
With the Red Arrows, the people at the actual event see and remember them,
they then get coverage in the local newspapers and on local TV (and maybe national).
So in terms of exposure as advertising people would say, the RAF
probably gets good bang for it's buck.
Putting 8 mil back into the pot would just be a small drop, hardly noticed
- that is IF the RAF kept it once they were gone, surely more likely that
the money would be cut from the budget ?
The RAAF have a line squadron flying a 4 ship Hornet display for the big shows and very good it is too.
The first part of the display is formation work, reminds me of the old French Mirage F1 and Jag 2 ships displays - very slow but very close formation and impressive to watch
The second half of the display is a role demo with lots of high speed passes and flash bangs - again very impressive and a good contrast to the earlier formation work.
Of course the RAAF also have the Roulettes - 6 PC-9s - I think but don't know that they are part timers.
Also both the Hornet and Super Hornet have solo displays.
Not bad for a far smaller airforce than the RAF.
The first part of the display is formation work, reminds me of the old French Mirage F1 and Jag 2 ships displays - very slow but very close formation and impressive to watch
The second half of the display is a role demo with lots of high speed passes and flash bangs - again very impressive and a good contrast to the earlier formation work.
Of course the RAAF also have the Roulettes - 6 PC-9s - I think but don't know that they are part timers.
Also both the Hornet and Super Hornet have solo displays.
Not bad for a far smaller airforce than the RAF.
I am amused that the American bloke thinks the Arrows would have been a warm up act for the T Birds or Blue Angels.
I know they are a little better these days but the displays are surely a victory for (commentator ) hype over substance.
I know they are a little better these days but the displays are surely a victory for (commentator ) hype over substance.
I think you are right - the Roulettes are instructors from East Sale.
I think they do a good show and are good value - but must cost a forntune to transit them around Aussie!
I think they do a good show and are good value - but must cost a forntune to transit them around Aussie!
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I haven't seen the Roulettes for a while - except the odd snippet on TV
but yes, if they do shows in outside of Victoria, the $$$ would be huge.
I'll have a look to see where they do shows. I wonder if it is confined to
Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane ???
but yes, if they do shows in outside of Victoria, the $$$ would be huge.
I'll have a look to see where they do shows. I wonder if it is confined to
Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane ???
Maybe worth a thread of its own but seems the US might beat us to it!
Congressional Budget Inaction May Kill 'Angels' - US News and World Report
Congressional Budget Inaction May Kill 'Angels' - US News and World Report
Justanopinion,
I'm suprised at you. When I said:
I was making a little joke at the fact that Jimlad had accidentally written "the might SHAR" by mistake instead of "the mighty SHAR."
I thought I'd make a little joke out of it, I was not attacking the sensitivities of those that did great work in the jet. But thank you for reminding us of how good the jet and those that flew her were.
I'm suprised at you. When I said:
Ah, the "Might SHAR". Is that a "Maybe Fighter"?
I thought I'd make a little joke out of it, I was not attacking the sensitivities of those that did great work in the jet. But thank you for reminding us of how good the jet and those that flew her were.
Whatever happened to the plan which allegedly existed for Breitling to operate 4 x AV-8As as a formation team?
I heard about it over 10 years ago, but it seems they went for the L-39 instead.
I heard about it over 10 years ago, but it seems they went for the L-39 instead.
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Fred's Five and Simon's Sircus spring to mind as examples of an operational squadron producing a display team, not to mention the Sharks and the 706's Whales from Culdrose.
The Navy can't even fund or man the Field Gun display team (and that was sponsored) now so while I'd like to say it's not fair and stamp my feet, what I will actually say is good luck to the RAF, at least your command know how to do PR.
Cheers now
The Navy can't even fund or man the Field Gun display team (and that was sponsored) now so while I'd like to say it's not fair and stamp my feet, what I will actually say is good luck to the RAF, at least your command know how to do PR.
Cheers now