WOULD YOU JOIN UP NOW
Pontios; I have done all the same except south atlantic both mob and civvie (lucky escape) I am unable to comment on current academic achivement levels now attained by the under 25's, and to far removed from the military system to really comment onwhat the current acceptable level is; but as far as I am aware it has been dumbed down from the good/bad old days. However I am willing to accept any chastisment to the contarary!!!!!!
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1 million of the under 25s don't have a single GCSE and 84,000 have but one.
This didn't stop tens of thousands entering the RAF through the Boy Entrants scheme.
The RAF realised that not having a good education did not mean that you were stupid. The RAF were leaders in using IQ tests and aptitude tests to stream recruits into suitable trades.
I left school in 1952 and became a B/E at 15 years and two months.
After my 13 years RAF service, I had a very good and rewarding career in the computer industry, where most of my peers were university educated. I held my own and succeeded. In the main because of the RAF's training and the confidence in my abilities that the RAF had nurtured.
ian16th
As a mere 4t6th `rook` I have to agree with you on the B/E point.. I hated it at the time but on reflection 50 years on they were great times. 39 years service and I don't regret a minute.
As for joining today - I expect I would as I would have no knowledge of how it was - those times have passed and are as relevant as fuel in the bowser after take off.
Nonetheless I was privileged to visit 4 SofTT this year 50 years after attesting in 62. We were hosted at lunch by some airmen trainees and I was so impressed with their enthusiasm and dedication so early in their careers..Great stuff.
No,, Its not what it used to be...but life goes on - good luck to them all
As a mere 4t6th `rook` I have to agree with you on the B/E point.. I hated it at the time but on reflection 50 years on they were great times. 39 years service and I don't regret a minute.
As for joining today - I expect I would as I would have no knowledge of how it was - those times have passed and are as relevant as fuel in the bowser after take off.
Nonetheless I was privileged to visit 4 SofTT this year 50 years after attesting in 62. We were hosted at lunch by some airmen trainees and I was so impressed with their enthusiasm and dedication so early in their careers..Great stuff.
No,, Its not what it used to be...but life goes on - good luck to them all
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Taffy, I did FI on a day return 
best way.
Ian 16th, while what you say is undoubtedly true with many becoming sqn ldr or higher, the point is that today there is not the same BE scheme and competition for the nearest equivalent scheme, like Junior Leaders, is very fierce.
As the forces total, are less than the Army alone of a few years ago, and not much more than the size of the RAF then, there is no way that the Service intake could absorb more than a handful of those NEET, nor would they want to.
These are really just asides from the OP to which the answer must remain, many people do want to join.
best way.Ian 16th, while what you say is undoubtedly true with many becoming sqn ldr or higher, the point is that today there is not the same BE scheme and competition for the nearest equivalent scheme, like Junior Leaders, is very fierce.
As the forces total, are less than the Army alone of a few years ago, and not much more than the size of the RAF then, there is no way that the Service intake could absorb more than a handful of those NEET, nor would they want to.
These are really just asides from the OP to which the answer must remain, many people do want to join.
Cunning Artificer
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Would I join today? If the only other option for a young chap with 6 'O' levels including Maths & English was a craft apprenticeship in a chemical works, sure, I'd do it again. 
Hi Rigga
Still with the company, volunteered to go round the world to see sun, sand and sea. So I am sat here in my appartment in Finland covering our wet lease over here. Not a lot of sand and definateley no sun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OJT
Still with the company, volunteered to go round the world to see sun, sand and sea. So I am sat here in my appartment in Finland covering our wet lease over here. Not a lot of sand and definateley no sun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OJT
Would I join?
Yes - absolutely. For the same reasons that I did 32 years ago. Bored to death with studying engineering, the Army/Navy/RAF/police/fire brigade offered the perfect solution. Having looked at them all, the desire to fly in the RAF far outweighed the other options and nothing else mattered.
Would I have accepted pilot/nav/AEng/AEOp/LM?
Yes absolutely. I wanted to fly - in any seat and never even considered a career beyond making the grade through training.
Would I have accepted ATC/FC/Regt etc...
Probably, but only at officer level. If this was the only option, I would seriously have looked at the Army and Navy as alternatives. Lets face it, some of us like parachuting, driving tanks, operating ships etc.. and service life will always attract these type of characters.
However, if you asked the question:
Would I stay?
Absolutely not. I think between 9 and 12 years would be my absolute limit. Enough to master ones art, do everything worth doing and realise that beyond that, the whole edifice is crumbling and rotting away around you without sufficient rewards to make it all worthwhile. I'm sure it would be a great 9-12 years but definitely time to move on at the end...
Yes - absolutely. For the same reasons that I did 32 years ago. Bored to death with studying engineering, the Army/Navy/RAF/police/fire brigade offered the perfect solution. Having looked at them all, the desire to fly in the RAF far outweighed the other options and nothing else mattered.
Would I have accepted pilot/nav/AEng/AEOp/LM?
Yes absolutely. I wanted to fly - in any seat and never even considered a career beyond making the grade through training.
Would I have accepted ATC/FC/Regt etc...
Probably, but only at officer level. If this was the only option, I would seriously have looked at the Army and Navy as alternatives. Lets face it, some of us like parachuting, driving tanks, operating ships etc.. and service life will always attract these type of characters.
However, if you asked the question:
Would I stay?
Absolutely not. I think between 9 and 12 years would be my absolute limit. Enough to master ones art, do everything worth doing and realise that beyond that, the whole edifice is crumbling and rotting away around you without sufficient rewards to make it all worthwhile. I'm sure it would be a great 9-12 years but definitely time to move on at the end...
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After serving 23 years, commissioned and non-commissioned, I have to admit it was the best time of my life, and there were some very low times as well as extremely high.
As other posters have said, it may not be the same as it was, but those who were already serving when I joined up in 1984 had the same complaint. The opportunities are there for those who want them. I did most things I could get away with on the sport and AT front, others did nothing, and then whinged about not doing them. I travelled to places I had never thought of going (good places!) and saw so many things my non-serving mates could only dream of.
My son is now considering joining and I wouldn't stop him. The only thing I have said to him is go the commissioning route. He’ll have a better lifestyle and more money, and more importantly, an additional qualification having been an officer, which these days, still affords some respect in civvy street.
Would I join again? Maybe, but then again, I know better! Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
As other posters have said, it may not be the same as it was, but those who were already serving when I joined up in 1984 had the same complaint. The opportunities are there for those who want them. I did most things I could get away with on the sport and AT front, others did nothing, and then whinged about not doing them. I travelled to places I had never thought of going (good places!) and saw so many things my non-serving mates could only dream of.
My son is now considering joining and I wouldn't stop him. The only thing I have said to him is go the commissioning route. He’ll have a better lifestyle and more money, and more importantly, an additional qualification having been an officer, which these days, still affords some respect in civvy street.
Would I join again? Maybe, but then again, I know better! Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
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In a word.....NO.
IMNSHO, we've been cutback too far. All of the intangibles that kept folk happy have (or are) disappearing because beancounters don't work in such ways. Sport, AT and most other peripherals are becoming harder and harder to achieve whilst our primary roles are largely under-supported in a wide variety of trades...
IMNSHO, we've been cutback too far. All of the intangibles that kept folk happy have (or are) disappearing because beancounters don't work in such ways. Sport, AT and most other peripherals are becoming harder and harder to achieve whilst our primary roles are largely under-supported in a wide variety of trades...
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
What some former service people are missing is that they have witnessed a significant degradation in the terms and quality of service over the years, which understandably has created an unfavorable impression of life in the services.
This comparison with "back when I joined" is not valid for somebody joining today. There is no yearning for the good old days when you started yesterday. The pension will be the pension that's in place today, the equipment and manning levels will be what they get used to.
Compared to what the outside world has to offer, a career in HM Forces still looks very attractive. Few would argue that the training, discipline and can-do attitude learnt in the military create an ecellent baseline of skills for life beyond it. The cameraderie and travel may look bleak when compared to the 1970's Armed Forces, but compared to being a customer service advisor for Direct Line it, still looks very impressive today and tomorrow.
Although being in or retired from the military requires every sentence to start with "back when I joined", it helps if comparisons are made with what young people have as realistic careers options. Comparisons with the halcyon days of the Armed Forces are not entirely objective.
This comparison with "back when I joined" is not valid for somebody joining today. There is no yearning for the good old days when you started yesterday. The pension will be the pension that's in place today, the equipment and manning levels will be what they get used to.
Compared to what the outside world has to offer, a career in HM Forces still looks very attractive. Few would argue that the training, discipline and can-do attitude learnt in the military create an ecellent baseline of skills for life beyond it. The cameraderie and travel may look bleak when compared to the 1970's Armed Forces, but compared to being a customer service advisor for Direct Line it, still looks very impressive today and tomorrow.
Although being in or retired from the military requires every sentence to start with "back when I joined", it helps if comparisons are made with what young people have as realistic careers options. Comparisons with the halcyon days of the Armed Forces are not entirely objective.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TI, spot on.
On the night Kennedy was assinated I was 'advised' by a young retired sqn ldr to resign.
A year later, on the first day in my first operational mess, I was again encouraged to resign.
The ignorance of youth will not listen to the tales of the twitter and blistered and recognise them for what they are, the tales of the disenchanted old and decrepit aviator which does not hold any relevance for them.
On the night Kennedy was assinated I was 'advised' by a young retired sqn ldr to resign.
A year later, on the first day in my first operational mess, I was again encouraged to resign.
The ignorance of youth will not listen to the tales of the twitter and blistered and recognise them for what they are, the tales of the disenchanted old and decrepit aviator which does not hold any relevance for them.
Two's In
You have captured the exact spirit of what I was trying to say in post #2. Guys joining now won't know any better and will love the job regardless. If not, they will leave. Ever has it been thus!
If I'm honest I find it moderately offensive the way some of the 'old and bold' continue to slag off today's military because it isn't the same organisation they joined back in 1962 (or whenever). I think some people need to get over themselves and accept the fact that the world will continue to evolve and sadly things will change. Not always for the better but c'est la vie. If people hadn't accepted change in the past we would never have had an Airforce and we'd still be using aircraft for artillery spotting.
I'm glad that certain individuals are enjoying their new lives in the big, wide world. Just let those still in the military enjoy their time and quit your whining. It's boring!
BV
If I'm honest I find it moderately offensive the way some of the 'old and bold' continue to slag off today's military because it isn't the same organisation they joined back in 1962 (or whenever). I think some people need to get over themselves and accept the fact that the world will continue to evolve and sadly things will change. Not always for the better but c'est la vie. If people hadn't accepted change in the past we would never have had an Airforce and we'd still be using aircraft for artillery spotting.
I'm glad that certain individuals are enjoying their new lives in the big, wide world. Just let those still in the military enjoy their time and quit your whining. It's boring!
BV
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Would I join now..... N O. Servicemen have been despised by the last two governments and without a Military Coup to resolve the governments commitment I don't see things changing for the better!
Not a chance, I wouldn't protect this lot for anything! Sad, but oh well that' s how I feel now.
Not a chance, I wouldn't protect this lot for anything! Sad, but oh well that' s how I feel now.
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'As other posters have said, it may not be the same as it was, but those who were already serving when I joined up in 1984 had the same complaint. The opportunities are there for those who want them. I did most things I could get away with on the sport and AT front, others did nothing, and then whinged about not doing them. I travelled to places I had never thought of going (good places!) and saw so many things my non-serving mates could only dream of.'
This sums it up well.
There are young graduates where I am now in their first jobs - there are guys that have been there 40 years. I pity them sometimes if this is what they aspire to. None of them have had the experiences, solid 3 meals, roof over their head, med and dental, lows and highs that I enjoyed in 21 years...and all for a good living.
The ex-service guys all speak the same language. 'When-I's' they are not.
It is not the same now , and never will be again.
...but I would wear the 2 colours of uniform that I wore and would do the same again without question. It made me.
G
This sums it up well.
There are young graduates where I am now in their first jobs - there are guys that have been there 40 years. I pity them sometimes if this is what they aspire to. None of them have had the experiences, solid 3 meals, roof over their head, med and dental, lows and highs that I enjoyed in 21 years...and all for a good living.
The ex-service guys all speak the same language. 'When-I's' they are not.
It is not the same now , and never will be again.
...but I would wear the 2 colours of uniform that I wore and would do the same again without question. It made me.
G
On the night Kennedy was assinated I was 'advised' by a young retired sqn ldr to resign.
PN - Without in any way diminishing the significance of the events concerned:
a. Which Kennedy?
b. Surely the "squabbling bleeder" didn't think that you were in any way responsible.
c. Assinated - sounds very painful ....
Jack
PS Back on thread - I'd join up like a shot - but only if I could be guaranteed to reach my present rank - at least!
PN - Without in any way diminishing the significance of the events concerned:
a. Which Kennedy?
b. Surely the "squabbling bleeder" didn't think that you were in any way responsible.
c. Assinated - sounds very painful ....
Jack
PS Back on thread - I'd join up like a shot - but only if I could be guaranteed to reach my present rank - at least!