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The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

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The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

Old 20th Aug 2020, 15:20
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman View Post
China gives them the money to repay the Saudi's....so...welcome to Imran Khans new Chinastan.
Thought Pakistani expatriates were the worker bees in Saudi and that their remissions keep Pakistan afloat. Had not been aware that Saudi has made big loans as well. Any source?
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Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:37
  #582 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Thought Pakistani expatriates were the worker bees in Saudi and that their remissions keep Pakistan afloat. Had not been aware that Saudi has made big loans as well. Any source?
https://www.wionews.com/south-asia/p...billion-319037
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Old 20th Aug 2020, 17:28
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Looks like a nice little earner for the Pakistanis (as long as they don't default on any loans), also makes strategic and commercial sense for the Chinese. Another cog in OBOR...
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Old 20th Aug 2020, 19:49
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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meanwhile, in the Home Ocean ....

...

From the Daily Mail etc - first photo of PLAN submarine entering (or leaving) leaving Yulin underground shelter. Note coastal roadway pontoon removed and positioned alongside, just north of entrance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-complex.html

There are other links from the article to significant related info.

LFH
...


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Old 24th Aug 2020, 13:14
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The PLAN has been publicising its use of civilian vessels for naval helicopter operations.

The Chinese navy apparently has been watching the U.S. Navy experiment with its new sea-base ships. Chinese media recently highlighted a military training exercise involving army Z-8 transport helicopters and Z-19 scouts flying from the deck of Zhen Hua 28, a civilian semi-submersible heavy load carrier.

For decades Beijing’s fleet has rented or borrowed commercial ships as an expedient method of expanding its modest-but-growing amphibious fleet. In wartime, the Chinese navy quickly could take up from trade scores or even hundreds of useful vessels, much like the Royal Navy famously did during the 1982 Falklands War.

Which is to say, in employing Zhen Hua 28, the Chinese navy isn’t necessarily copying the Americans. But it is noteworthy that both fleets have, at around the same time, discovered the utility of submersible load-carriers.

Source: forbes.com
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...opter-carrier/
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 20:11
  #586 (permalink)  
 
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Article in the Times:-
Beijing up in arms over US spyplane sorties

Intro:-
Beijing has accused the United States of “naked provocation” by sending a high-altitude surveillance plane to spy on exercises involving one of China’s aircraft carriers.

China has officially complained about the “trespass” of the U-2 spy plane during naval exercises this week. Reports from Hong Kong said that the U-2 flew from a US base in South Korea over the Bohai Gulf and monitored firing exercises conducted on Tuesday by vessels including China’s flagship aircraft carrier, Shandong.

According to a Chinese government think tank, a different reconnaissance aircraft, the RC-135S, also flew across the South China Sea today.

“This was a naked act of provocation,” Wu Qian, a spokesman for China’s defence ministry, said. “It seriously interfered in normal exercise activities. It seriously violated the code of safe behaviour for air and sea between China and the US and international norms. It could easily have led to misjudgment, or could even cause accidents in the sea and air.
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 20:39
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Bei; North, Hai; Sea. The Chinese regard it as sovereign territory and there is a substantial military presence there. It is the closest a seaborne invasion would be to Beijing; they haven't forgotten the British did it, and it is also adjacent to North and South Korea.

Miserable place in winter.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 17:57
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Latest article in The Times.
China tests DF-21D ‘carrier killer’ missiles in South China Sea


China is believed to have fired a nuclear-capable “carrier killer” anti-ship ballistic missile into the South China Sea the day after the United States sent a surveillance aircraft to spy on Chinese military exercises.

The show of strength came as Mark Esper, the US defence secretary, denounced Beijing for its “aggression” and vowed that his government would not give “an inch of ground” in its rejection of Chinese sovereignty over the strategic sea.

“Particularly in the South China Sea area, China seems to be flexing its muscles the most and conducting some of its worst behaviour,” Mr Esper said after a speech in Hawaii.

“The United States has a responsibility to lead . . . We’re not going to cede this region, an inch of ground if you will, to another country, any other country that thinks their form of government [is] better than what many of us share.”

Diplomatic tension between the China and the US has been increasing for months, as President Trump has made criticism of Beijing a part of his re-election campaign.

Yesterday China accused the United States of “naked provocation” and “trespass” in sending a high-altitude U2 surveillance aircraft to spy on naval live firing exercises involving the Chinese aircraft carrier Shandong.

As China was making its complaint, according to the South China Morning Post, it was also test-firing advanced ballistic missiles in what appears to be a pointed response.

The weapons reportedly included the DF-21D, a “carrier killer” anti-ship ballistic missile, which could threaten the US’s fleet.

In July, in a powerful show of strength, two US carriers, USS Nimitz and USS Ronald Reagan, conducted exercises in the South China Sea at the same time as Shandong.


The other missile tested, the DF-26B, can carry nuclear or conventional warheads and has a range of 4000km, making it capable of striking US forces on the Pacific garrison island of Guam. Both weapons were fired into an area of sea between China’s Hainan province and the Paracel Islands, which are claimed by several southeast Asian countries, as well as China.

In the past six years Beijing has strengthened its claims by concreting over reefs to build military airports equipped with radar, missiles and aircraft. On Wednesday, the US government banned 24 Chinese companies from buying American products, blaming them for helping to construct the new artificial islands.

In 2016, an international tribunal in the Hague rejected Beijing’s claim to sovereignty over virtually the whole South China Sea and ruled that it had broken international law by building the military bases.

Last month Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, gave explicit support to this ruling, adding to the growing atmosphere of confrontation between Washington and Beijing. His message was reinforced today by Mr Esper.

“The People’s Liberation Army continues to pursue an aggressive modernisation plan to achieve a world-class military by the middle of the century,” he said. “This will undoubtedly involve the PLA’s provocative behaviour in the South and East China Seas, and anywhere else the Chinese government has deemed critical to its interests.”

Taiwan’s president, Tsai Ing-wen, warned of the rising danger of war in the region. “The risk of conflict requires careful management by all the parties concerned,” she said. “We expect and hope that Beijing will continue to exercise restraint consistent with their obligations as a major regional power.”
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 21:26
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They have certainly beefed up their air force since I used to knock about with the PLAAF at Shanghaiguan in 1998. Then the main equipment then was the Shenyang J6 where the pilots were paid about the same as I paid my housekeeper and flew about 40 hrs/year.

Came the turn of the century and conscription was phased down to a small degree with a massive enhancement of T&Cs for regular personnel. The equipment changed as the J6s were piled up in a quiet corner of the airfield and a line of J7s replaced them. With them came an enhancement of accommodation and living conditions.

Shanghaiguan has now lost its ground attack role and it now a PLA naval aviation unit with Y8 maritime patrol aircraft. It has been expanded beyond belief since I was there and looks as if it has a training college with a clutch of J7s to play with.

Google Earth will show a line of Y8s and two of them have a radar assembly on top.

There are now some good reasons why they said that they were proud to serve their country.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 02:36
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What is the accepted procedure for setting an ADIZ? Large scale US and Russian naval and air exercises are common, they often involve a lot of airspace beyond national territorial limits, how is that handled? If there is lots of precedent for such requirements made by other forces during exercises, it will be hard for the US to object to China's doing the same.

Obviously the Chinese protests are because they hope to gradually get de facto acceptance of their territorial claims by setting up ID zones, anticipating that traffic has to conform to Chinese regulations. This seems like a low risk approach to building sovereignty.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 06:50
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It's only low risk if nobody objects. When someone does object we are at the point where it is no longer a low risk infiltration but a high risk offensive action.

IG
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 07:43
  #592 (permalink)  
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What is the accepted procedure for setting an ADIZ? Large scale US and Russian naval and air exercises are common, they often involve a lot of airspace beyond national territorial limits, how is that handled? If there is lots of precedent for such requirements made by other forces during exercises, it will be hard for the US to object to China's doing the same.

Obviously the Chinese protests are because they hope to gradually get de facto acceptance of their territorial claims by setting up ID zones, anticipating that traffic has to conform to Chinese regulations. This seems like a low risk approach to building sovereignty.
The norm for exercises is to issue a NOTAM. Especial care is taken where these state they are live fire exercises. They could, of course, engage any aircraft which penetrate the NOTAM area, but that has far higher risks of its own.

ADIZ have no international legal basis. China has established one which, whilst being a matter of concern for airlines, is being ignored by the US forces and others. The US, UK and others have a tradition of deliberately challenging attempts by nations to use such means to limit transit of international waters and airspace - which is covered by international law.

East China Sea ADIZ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_navigation

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Old 28th Aug 2020, 08:11
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Double the U-2 flights.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 10:02
  #594 (permalink)  
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https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...IO7rPG16K.html

Indian Govt to clear $2 billion deal for Israeli-made AWACS amid stand-off with China
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 19:34
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The norm for exercises is to issue a NOTAM. Especial care is taken where these state they are live fire exercises. They could, of course, engage any aircraft which penetrate the NOTAM area, but that has far higher risks of its own.

ADIZ have no international legal basis. China has established one which, whilst being a matter of concern for airlines, is being ignored by the US forces and others. The US, UK and others have a tradition of deliberately challenging attempts by nations to use such means to limit transit of international waters and airspace - which is covered by international law.

East China Sea ADIZ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_navigation
Thank you, that is very helpful. Do we know whether China issued a NOTAM for the exercise area as well as setting up the ADIZ?
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 08:18
  #596 (permalink)  
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ts-near-border

India accuses China of 'provocative military movements' near border

India has said its soldiers thwarted China’s “provocative” military movements near a disputed border in Ladakh region amid a months-long standoff.

A statement by India’s defence ministry said China’s Peoples Liberation Army “carried out provocative military movements to change the status quo” and “violated the previous consensus arrived at during military and diplomatic engagements” to settle the standoff in the cold-desert region.

It said Indian troops preempted the Chinese military activity on the southern bank of Pangong Lake.

The statement said Indian troops “undertook measures to strengthen our positions and thwart Chinese intentions to unilaterally change facts on ground.”

China did not immediately comment......
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 16:44
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Another god awful spot - but both sides seem to have camps/roads near the LOAC here
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 10:35
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First Image Of China’s New Carrier-Based AEW Plane

Article in Forbes about satellite image of China's E-2 alike. One assumes obvious questions being asked does it work, is it mechanical or AESA, will it fly off a skijump or be land based until PLAN carrier no3. Can they get it fully operational before Crowsnest?

Forbes: First Image of KJ-600



H I Sutton, Imagery from Planet Labs Inc

Also in Popular Mechanics
China's New Plane Sure Looks Like an American Hawkeye Knockoff
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 05:31
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https://www.ft.com/content/24e87b4b-...2-9f801af21ea6

Security assurances given Taiwan.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 16:39
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Firewalled I'm afraid.....................
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