Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

The South China Sea's Gathering Storm

Old 22nd Jul 2020, 02:30
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,326
Received 26 Likes on 18 Posts
Recorded on hidden Oval Office digital recorder...

"Mr President, if I may be blunt sir, given the pandemic, the economy, and the latest poll numbers, things are looking dicey for November. That said, even a small confrontation of some type in the South China Sea sometime in the next 100 days could shift public sentiment... I'm sorry sir, that was three syllables in a row; could change the public's mood. We suggest the administration start by escalating the tough anti-China talk as soon as possible..."
tartare is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 20:07
  #522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,097
Received 62 Likes on 40 Posts
Given the limits of power projection, it’s encouraging to see some are thinking outside the box when it comes to sustaining the force once it’s there.


https://warontherocks.com/2020/07/co...Oxi9uaC46R1tyI
West Coast is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2020, 06:12
  #523 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,086
Received 2,140 Likes on 969 Posts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...-sea-3tdd99vm7

Beijing sends fighter jets to disputed island chain in the South China Sea

Beijing has stationed eight warplanes on a strategic disputed island in the South China Sea, escalating tensions over territorial claims.

Satellite images from July 15 showed at least four aircraft on Woody Island in the Paracels chain, believed to be J-11B air superiority fighters. More pictures the following day showed them in a different area of the island along with four other aircraft, thought to be JH-7 anti-ship fighter-bombers, according to Radio Free Asia, a broadcast service backed by the US government......

When asked about the deployment to Woody Island, Beijing insisted that it was within its rights to do so. “The Paracels are Chinese territory,” said Wang Wenbin, a foreign ministry spokesman.

Beijing has reclaimed land and militarised several islands in the Paracels and the Spratly chain, setting up two new regions this year to cement claims.......




ORAC is online now  
Old 23rd Jul 2020, 12:27
  #524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Sure seems that China is not backing off at all. They are in possession, which is 9/10th of the law as well, plus they are in a position of greater strength in the South China Sea than any outside player.
etudiant is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2020, 14:52
  #525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 549
Received 189 Likes on 98 Posts
Inaction accrues cost of its own.
Not_a_boffin is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2020, 06:49
  #526 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,086
Received 2,140 Likes on 969 Posts
Australia steps up to the plate.......

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...outh-china-sea

Australia declares 'there is no legal basis' to Beijing’s claims in South China Sea

Australia has declared “there is no legal basis” to China’s territorial and maritime claims in the South China Sea, marking an escalation of recent tensions with Beijing and bringing Canberra further in line with Washington.

The declaration, made in a submission to the United Nations on Thursday, comes after the United States hardened its position earlier this month, accusing Beijing of a “completely unlawful … campaign of bullying” to control the sea.

Australia’s shift in position comes as Australia’s foreign affairs minister, Marise Payne, and the defence minister, Linda Reynolds, prepare to travel to Washington next week to meet with the US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, and the secretary of defence, Mark Esper, for the 2020 Australia-United States Ministerial Consultations (Ausmin).

The declaration to the UN said: “Australia rejects China’s claim to ‘historic rights’ or ‘maritime rights and interests’ as established in the ‘long course of historical practice’ in the South China Sea.”

Australia’s declaration mentioned the objections and complaints held by the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia in regards to Beijing’s actions in the South China Sea, and “rejects” the validity of “land building activities” used to create artificial islands.

The declaration said Australia does not accept China’s claim of sovereignty over the Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands, after Australian warships encountered China’s navy near the Spratly Islands earlier this month when taking part in drills with Japan and the United States in the Philippine Sea.

It notes “the Tribunal in the 2016 South China Sea Arbitral Award found these claims to be inconsistent with UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) and, to the extent of that inconsistency, invalid”.

“There is no legal basis for China to draw straight baselines connecting the outermost points of maritime features or ‘island groups’ in the South China Sea, including around the ‘Four Sha’ or ‘continental’ or ‘outlying’ archipelagos,” it said.

“Australia rejects any claims to internal waters, territorial sea, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf based on such straight baselines.

“Australia also rejects China’s claims to maritime zones generated by submerged features, or low-tide elevations in a manner inconsistent with UNCLOS. Land building activities or other forms of artificial transformation cannot change the classification of a feature under UNCLOS … the Australian government does not accept that artificially transformed features can ever acquire the status of an island.”.....

ORAC is online now  
Old 28th Jul 2020, 10:13
  #527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 77
Posts: 1,379
Received 22 Likes on 14 Posts
In The Times today - US sends more planes to keep watch on China

The US is increasing aerial surveillance over the South China Sea to a record level as relations between Washington and Beijing deteriorate and fears grow for the safety of Taiwan.

Spy planes from the US navy, air force and army are involved in an apparent three-pronged drive to track Chinese submarines and monitor activity by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which has redoubled training for operations aimed at Taiwan. In Beijing, procurement documents from the China State Shipbuilding Corporation have revealed plans to build an amphibious assault ship ideal for island invasion.

China has long considered Taiwan a breakaway province to be brought back under its control, by force if necessary, while the US has a pact with the island to ensure that it has hardware and technology it needs to defend itself. Tensions between the two superpowers have heightened in recent days, with tit-for-tat closures of consulates.

The development comes as New Zealand has announced the suspension of its extradition treaty with Hong Kong in the wake of China’s decision to implement its strict national security law on the territory. “New Zealand can no longer trust that Hong Kong’s criminal justice system is sufficiently independent from China,” Winston Peters, the foreign affairs minister, said.

“If China in future shows adherence to the one country, two systems framework then we could reconsider this decision.” New Zealand follows Australia, Canada and the UK, which have also halted their extradition treaties.

As many as 50 US military patrols have been carried out this month involving a range of surveillance and signals intelligence aircraft, according to a think tank in Beijing.

The Pentagon describes such missions as “routine patrols in international airspace” but there is evidence that the number has been significantly stepped up, particularly in the strategic Bashi Channel, south of Taiwan.

The Chinese air force has also been active in recent weeks over the channel, which runs from the southern end of Taiwan to the island of Luzon in the Philippines. China has been increasing the pressure on Taiwan, launching military exercises involving amphibious warfare operations.

The US sent six reconnaissance aircraft and two refuelling tankers to the Bashi Channel this month, according to the South China Sea Probing Initiative, a think tank linked to Peking University. It said a US air force RC-135 Rivet Joint electronic surveillance aircraft was seen entering Taiwan airspace yesterday.

A US navy EP-3E Orion reconnaissance aircraft, thought to be based in Okinawa, was also spotted yesterday flying within 60 miles of Guangdon province, which borders Hong Kong. US navy P-8A Poseidon anti-submarine aircraft have been part of the patrols monitoring the Bashi Channel and the South China Sea for PLA navy submarine movements.

The surveillance patrols over the South China Sea have also involved the US army’s RC-12X Guardrail signals intelligence aircraft, used for snooping on enemy communications.

The heightened US surveillance missions have coincided with an official statement by Washington rejecting Beijing’s claims of sovereignty over islands in the South China Sea. The statement by Mike Pompeo, secretary of state, was the first time the US had taken sides in the long-running regional dispute over the ownership of the islands. The Australian government also declared that China’s claims were unlawful.
Lyneham Lad is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2020, 19:22
  #528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West
Posts: 526
Received 46 Likes on 18 Posts
Ecuador navy 'on alert' as 260-strong Chinese fleet nears Galapagos Islands

As hostile as China has been in the South China Sea toward other nations fishing fleet, this seems interesting as Ecuador is now patrolling the area. (IMO)

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-...dor-navy-alert

A large fleet of some 260 Chinese fishing vessels has been spotted in the waters surrounding the Galápagos Islands off the coast of Ecuador, the country’s navy officials said last week.The Ecuadorian Navy said it has increasing patrolling to ensure the Chinese ships do not enter the exclusive economic zone around the Galápagos Islands, where 19th-century British explorer Charles Darwin developed his theory of evolution, Reuters reported.

“We are on alert, conducting surveillance, patrolling to avoid an incident such as what happened in 2017,” Ecuador’s Defense Minister Oswaldo Jarrin said at a press conference. Three years ago, a Chinese ship was apprehended in the Galápagos Marine Reserve carrying 300 tons of marine wildlife -- mostly sharks, including the hammerhead, which is near extinction.

“There is a corridor that is international waters, that’s where the fleet is located,” Jarrin added.

The Galápagos – as well as an about 188-mile radius of the surrounding ocean waters – was designated a Unesco world heritage site in 1978 for its unique marine wildlife and biodiversity. The Chinese fleet is sitting about 200 miles from the nine-island archipelago in international waters, The Guardian reported.

Former Ecuadorian environment minister, Yolanda Kakabadse, along with Roque Sevilla, a former mayor of Ecuador's capital, Quito, told The Guardian on Monday that they were developing a “protection strategy” to ask the Chinese fleet not to return, enforce international agreements protecting migratory species and extend the exclusive economic zone to a 350-mile radius from the islands.

“This fleet’s size and aggressiveness against marine species is a big threat to the balance of species in the Galápagos,” Kakabadse said. To that sentiment, Sevilla echoed: “Unchecked Chinese fishing just on the edge of the protected zone is ruining Ecuador’s efforts to protect marine life in the Galápagos.”

Chinese fishing vessels annually come to the international waters around the Galapagos, but this year, the fleet is significantly larger than before and has come within a closer range of the islands.

Ecuador President Lenín Moreno tweeted his support in preserving the Galápagos Islands on Saturday, writing in Spanish: “We will work in a regional position to defend and protect the Exclusive Economic Zone around the Galápagos Marine Reserve, one of the richest fishing areas and a hotbed of life for the entire planet.”
havoc is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 14:26
  #529 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,086
Received 2,140 Likes on 969 Posts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...-sea-bwwxhd5qh

China deploys anti-ship bombers in South China Sea

China has debuted two anti-ship jet bombers in “high-intensity” military drills in the disputed South China Sea, in an apparent show of force against the US and its Asian neighbours.

It was the first time the Chinese military officially revealed the H-6J bomber, a variant of a Soviet Tupelov attack bomber that can carry cruise missiles. The bombers, which are believed to have been in service for several years, were used to strike “surface targets” during round-the-clock exercises, the Chinese military said.

Senior Colonel Ren Guoqiang, a spokesman for the defence ministry, said that the People’s Liberation Army Southern Theatre Command navy-aviation force had carried out “high-intensity, all-day training over the South China Sea involving new types of warplanes such as H-6G and H-6J”. “It completed exercises [including] long-distance strike and attacks on water surface targets,” he said. “It achieved expected results.”.....

“We demand the US to stop making wrong speeches, to stop its military provocative acts in the South China Sea, and to stop sowing discord in the region,” Senior Colonel Ren said, promising that Beijing would only be more resolved in the face of US provocations.

Wang Ya’nan, a Chinese aviation industry expert and chief editor of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the state-run Global Times that Beijing, by revealing the bombers’ exercises in detail, sought to demonstrate its capabilities. Mr Wang added that Beijing was showing restraint by not carrying out the drills at the same time as the US aircraft carrier exercises.

Meanwhile, Japan today took a step closer to buying long-range munitions and adopting a “pre-emptive” strike doctrine against future enemies, after the ruling Liberal Democratic Party published proposals to be considered by Shinzo Abe, the prime minister.

“Our country needs to consider ways to strengthen deterrence, including having the capability to halt ballistic missile attacks within the territory of our adversaries,” the plan produced by the defence committee said.

The document would alter Japan’s stance as a pacifist nation, whose constitution prohibits the right to wage war. It is also likely to anger China and Russia, which could fall within range of any new strike weapons......

Mr Abe has pushed for a more muscular military, arguing Japan needs to respond to a deteriorating security environment in east Asia as North Korea builds missiles and nuclear weapons, China builds a modern, powerful military and Russian forces re-engage in the region.

ORAC is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 16:44
  #530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,861
Received 437 Likes on 263 Posts
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53171124

Some good pictures and maps in the article

Both India and China have devoted money and manpower to building roads, rail links and airfields along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) - the de facto boundary separating them - as well as modernising their military hardware in the region.

India's recent building work, including the DSDBO road, appears to have infuriated China - but China has been busy building along the border for years. Both sides tend to view the other's construction efforts as calculated moves to gain tactical advantage, and tensions flare when either announces a major project.

In the summer of 2017, the neighbours were brought to a stand-off at Doklam plateau, far to the east of Ladakh. That confrontation was also over construction - this time China attempting to extend a border road near a tri-junction between India, China and Bhutan.

India plays catch-up

The completion of the DSDBO road, which connects the crucial Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip - put back in use in 2008 - to the regional capital Leh, has strengthened India's ability to move equipment quickly. The all-weather road lies about 20km from the Karakoram Pass and runs parallel to the LAC in eastern Ladakh.

India has long stationed men at Daulat Beg Oldi but, before the reactivation of the airstrip and the completion of the road, the men there could get supplies only through helicopter drops, and nothing could be removed, turning the airstrip into a "graveyard for equipment".

Additional roads and bridges are now being built to link the road with inland supply bases and border outposts on the LAC, enabling Indian patrols to go further forwa
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2020, 19:37
  #531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 77
Posts: 1,379
Received 22 Likes on 14 Posts
Article & photo:-

Beijing flexes its military muscle in off-shore exercises near Taiwan

Beijing has conducted maritime exercises in waters between mainland China and Taiwan as part of manoeuvres that would “play a vital role in potential military operations on the island of Taiwan”.

Chinese state media made the declaration after the military landed helicopters on a warship and then deployed soldiers in the area.
Lyneham Lad is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2020, 21:09
  #532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cowtown
Posts: 926
Received 89 Likes on 65 Posts
Mitsubishi has new rockets and Japan is re-arming . The Japanese understand the threats and are not sitting waiting to be attacked. They have already amended their constitution to allow them to get their retaliation in first
fitliker is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2020, 21:24
  #533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,071
Received 29 Likes on 15 Posts
...
... manoeuvres that would “play a vital role in potential military operations on the island of Taiwan”.
Corpen Niner and Dongsha's your Uncle, despite recent reinforcement by a Company of 200 Marines.

Simples.

...
Lordflasheart is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2020, 17:45
  #534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,097
Received 62 Likes on 40 Posts
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...cBwjJldskTfchE

message sent.
West Coast is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2020, 18:21
  #535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Taiwan has to get nuclear weapons asap, else they are toast. They can justify it by highlighting their concern about the unregulated nuclear program in North Korea.
Obviously Ho Chi Min would have recommended a more people centric solution and set up a national compulsory military service, expecting the mainland invasion force to have to overcome 25mm armed Taiwanese.
Unfortunately, the CCP success in dealing with other potentially fractious elements suggests that this strategy is obsolete. China has shown that it is possible to imprison millions of Uighurs, based on that precedent dealing with Taiwan as a hotbed of reactionaries would be duck soup
etudiant is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2020, 03:19
  #536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 65
Posts: 7,358
Received 545 Likes on 344 Posts
Originally Posted by etudiant
Taiwan has to get nuclear weapons asap, else they are toast. They can justify it by highlighting their concern about the unregulated nuclear program in North Korea.

Obviously Ho Chi Min would have recommended a more people centric solution and set up a national compulsory military service, expecting the mainland invasion force to have to overcome 25mm armed Taiwanese.
Are you referring to Chiang KaiShek?
Ho didn't need to concern himself with defending Taiwan. He was busy defending Viet Nam, wasn't he?
Originally Posted by etudiant
Unfortunately, the CCP success in dealing with other potentially fractious elements suggests that this strategy is obsolete. China has shown that it is possible to imprison millions of Uighurs, based on that precedent dealing with Taiwan as a hotbed of reactionaries would be duck soup
Taiwan choosing to go nuclear: now there's an interesting way to stir the pot. Do you think they'll take that step, or are you just tossing pasta against the wall to see how much of it sticks?
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2020, 13:23
  #537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 80
Posts: 551
Received 55 Likes on 31 Posts
One of China's declared red lines for an invasion is Taiwan's acquisition of nuclear weapons.
Barksdale Boy is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2020, 16:26
  #538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 82
Posts: 4,768
Received 245 Likes on 76 Posts
Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy
One of China's declared red lines for an invasion is Taiwan's acquisition of nuclear weapons.
It rather depends upon what comes first, doesn't it? Would the CCP dare to invade a nuclear armed Taiwan? At some point China has to be threatened rather than being left to threaten everyone else. History tells us if you don't stand up to bullies from the outset then much regret tends to follow...
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2020, 23:58
  #539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 80
Posts: 551
Received 55 Likes on 31 Posts
I stated it merely as a fact.
Barksdale Boy is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2020, 14:52
  #540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,861
Received 437 Likes on 263 Posts
I think we can be sure that the Chinese security services have enough "assets" in Taiwan to get plenty of warning of a change of policy there
Asturias56 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.