Historical RAF Uniform Question
Nothing to add to the shirt query but no-one seems to have commented on the introduction of staybrite/anodised badges and buttons. Later than 1960, certainly. I went to the far east in March 1967 and was certainly wearing brass buttons up to that point, as were my airmen. On return in January 1969 it was all staybrites and I remember getting a set of "high dome" staybrite buttons for my number one to replace the brass ones, which had gone an interesting shade of green in storage!
Interestingly, in my years of trading in militaria I have often come across RAF "king's crown" (ie pre 1953) anodised buttons, and have never yet had a satisfactory explanation for these - possibly a trial, as many army units, particularly the technical corps, were going over to staybrites at that time. I used to do a good trade in RAF queen's crown brass cap badges with airmen who wanted to replace the tatty anodised badge on their SD cap - but the introduction of the embroidered thing in the 90s put an end to that trade.
Interestingly, in my years of trading in militaria I have often come across RAF "king's crown" (ie pre 1953) anodised buttons, and have never yet had a satisfactory explanation for these - possibly a trial, as many army units, particularly the technical corps, were going over to staybrites at that time. I used to do a good trade in RAF queen's crown brass cap badges with airmen who wanted to replace the tatty anodised badge on their SD cap - but the introduction of the embroidered thing in the 90s put an end to that trade.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,844 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
Was issued with the blue shirts collars attached and Thunderbird jacket in March 76 at Swinditz, however whilst training at St Athans post Swinditz, some of the WRAF'S trainies were still being issued and wearing hairy mary's, as they used to ask if anyone had spare pyjama bottoms to wear under them, we were still getting the old overalls with the rubber buttons to wear, but these were replaced with the Velcro grey with dark blue collar jobbies on qualifying. The dark blue workshirts, 2nd pair of No2 trousers and lightweight trousers came out a wee bit later than 78 I think, more like 79 to 80 ish.
As for coats, I liked my Harold Wilson Mac, I refused to exchange it for the Dell Boy Trotter version that came out later, trouble was when it rained you stood out like a sore thumb, but at least it kept me dry.
As for coats, I liked my Harold Wilson Mac, I refused to exchange it for the Dell Boy Trotter version that came out later, trouble was when it rained you stood out like a sore thumb, but at least it kept me dry.
Last edited by NutLoose; 15th Jun 2012 at 21:10.
When I signed on as a Boy Entrant in Jan 64 we were issued with 3 shirts and 6 collars. The reversable variety came much later. At some point during the next 18 months we were issued with one collar attached shirt with buttons that came only half way down and it had 2 breast pockets. It was said that they were originally meant for SNCOs but were very unpopular so it was decided to make a general issue of the item. The collar attached shirt could only be worn with No.2 uniform. We also purchased the plastic collars, which I found to be very uncomfortable but were very easy to clean. (3 shirts = 1 on, 1 off and 1 in the wash.
Clip-on ties were never permitted and if caught wearing one it was punishable by being bound up with barbed wire or sent to the tin room for a week. They were easy to spot because we were not allowed to have a Windsor knot.
As BEs our working dress was the old National Service Best Blue - ie Similar to the Best blue style but made of Hairy Mary material and with brass buttons. Stay-bright beret badges were permitted only in No.2 and were private purchase only. We were never allowed stay-bright buttons on our T63.
Aaron.
Clip-on ties were never permitted and if caught wearing one it was punishable by being bound up with barbed wire or sent to the tin room for a week. They were easy to spot because we were not allowed to have a Windsor knot.
As BEs our working dress was the old National Service Best Blue - ie Similar to the Best blue style but made of Hairy Mary material and with brass buttons. Stay-bright beret badges were permitted only in No.2 and were private purchase only. We were never allowed stay-bright buttons on our T63.
Aaron.
Hi-dome staybrite - 1969?
Optional duck egg blue/green shirt - 1970?
Wedgewood blue shirt - 1973??
Thunderbird jacket - 1974
Wings on wooly pullies - 1978?
Beret - last worn in 1974. Never again!!
Windsor knots were forbidden at my school. But at RAFC they were mandatory.
Then there were the joys of the single-ended bow tie with Mess Kit - as well as the stiff-fronted shirt, white waistcoat and wing collar, which fortunately all disappeared in the early 1970s except for Royal occasions. I only had to wear that hideously uncomfortable 'formal' No 5 dress once, thank heavens!
Optional duck egg blue/green shirt - 1970?
Wedgewood blue shirt - 1973??
Thunderbird jacket - 1974
Wings on wooly pullies - 1978?
Beret - last worn in 1974. Never again!!
Windsor knots were forbidden at my school. But at RAFC they were mandatory.
Then there were the joys of the single-ended bow tie with Mess Kit - as well as the stiff-fronted shirt, white waistcoat and wing collar, which fortunately all disappeared in the early 1970s except for Royal occasions. I only had to wear that hideously uncomfortable 'formal' No 5 dress once, thank heavens!
Last edited by BEagle; 15th Jun 2012 at 21:16.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,844 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
78 must of been about the time they screwed a decent wooly pullie up by giving it a vneck.
Last edited by NutLoose; 15th Jun 2012 at 21:13.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 80
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
In the mid-eighties, M&S did a shirt that was quite acceptable in colour-terms, and was as smart as an arse. No epaulettes though. Particularly good collar.
As for the cheese-cutter hat on a dfferent thread, I was the first to wear one at Muharraq in '70 (or thereabouts) - much to the annoyance of OC Eng, who asked me to report to OC Admin, with a reason. First time that I was able to tell a Senior Oficer that he was out of order, ignored him, and walked on. Plonk.
As for the cheese-cutter hat on a dfferent thread, I was the first to wear one at Muharraq in '70 (or thereabouts) - much to the annoyance of OC Eng, who asked me to report to OC Admin, with a reason. First time that I was able to tell a Senior Oficer that he was out of order, ignored him, and walked on. Plonk.
Last edited by jindabyne; 15th Jun 2012 at 21:26.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing to add to the shirt query but no-one seems to have commented on the introduction of staybrite/anodised badges and buttons. Later than 1960, certainly. I went to the far east in March 1967 and was certainly wearing brass buttons up to that point, as were my airmen.
Last edited by Shack37; 15th Jun 2012 at 22:47.
Around 1966/7 there was a trial with an aircrew No 2 that had zips in the jacket instead of flap pockets. OC 230, Dave Todd, knew somebody who was running this trial and when it stopped he purloined the unused ones and handed them out to our squadron. A few years later when I came back from the Far East mine had been superceded by the woolly pully.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TTN, our No 1s were built with staybright flats in '61.
Aaron, I got my first clipon in '65 in the States. Game definitely when I saw the stn cdr at Waddo wearing one in '67.
Jindabyne, those M&S ones were also available, with epaulettes, in that awful blue-green in the late '60s too. Different shade from the NAAFI ones, now there's a surprise.
Aaron, I got my first clipon in '65 in the States. Game definitely when I saw the stn cdr at Waddo wearing one in '67.
Jindabyne, those M&S ones were also available, with epaulettes, in that awful blue-green in the late '60s too. Different shade from the NAAFI ones, now there's a surprise.
Shack37
I agree we only referred to Best Blue and Working Blue. Battledress was coming in in early 62. In Jan 62 I was one of a handful of my apprentice entry who got an initial issue of battledress as they'd run out of our sizes in jackets. But stores didn't want to part with them if they could help it! Didn't call them Storemen for nothing!
I agree we only referred to Best Blue and Working Blue. Battledress was coming in in early 62. In Jan 62 I was one of a handful of my apprentice entry who got an initial issue of battledress as they'd run out of our sizes in jackets. But stores didn't want to part with them if they could help it! Didn't call them Storemen for nothing!
The staybrite 'high domed' buttons came in '69 to '71 - for which one was issued with a bill from SCAF!! All uniforms including greatcoat had to be 'done' by a certain date; it was a DIY arrangement - the brand new Mrs FZ took a dim view of this 
Around 1966/7 there was a trial with an aircrew No 2 that had zips in the jacket instead of flap pockets.
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 16th Jun 2012 at 13:49.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Around 1966/7 there was a trial with an aircrew No 2 that had zips in the jacket instead of flap pockets.
Wasn't that a Bomber Command thing? Beagle or P-N will know.
Saw this at Ballykelly on Coastal Command too in 1968. Don't think it caught on though.
Last edited by Shack37; 16th Jun 2012 at 14:51.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The zuit suit was classed as a flying suit and intended that high altitude crews, all Mk 2 Vs and the Lightning force would wear it and it was designed with a hole in the trousers for your G-pants and AVS tubes. In parallel it had been decreed that the working dress would be your second No 1 so that we were then given an allowance to buy a second No 1.
It looked most odd the Mk 2 crews on the OCU in '64 all wearing the free zuit suit and the Mk 1 crews in No 1.
We never flew in just a zuit suit but used to carry them in a large valise in case of diversion. By 1969 stocks were exhausted but rumour had it that there were still some in Cyprus. On posting there I hot footed it to stores but they only had one for a 6 foot 4 gorilla weighing over 200lbs. Then only 5-10 and 168lbs I immediately said I'll have it. The Paki tailor did wonders and with KD in the summer that free uniform lasted me until the International Rescue zuit suit came in and that lasted until the woolly pully and the lightweight trousers when the latter came in in 1984.
I never did buy that 2nd No 1 and bought a second hand one from a retiree in 1975. My next one was a Burtons, also from a retiree when I took over his job 25 years later.
Only ever had two SD hats in all my time too.
It looked most odd the Mk 2 crews on the OCU in '64 all wearing the free zuit suit and the Mk 1 crews in No 1.
We never flew in just a zuit suit but used to carry them in a large valise in case of diversion. By 1969 stocks were exhausted but rumour had it that there were still some in Cyprus. On posting there I hot footed it to stores but they only had one for a 6 foot 4 gorilla weighing over 200lbs. Then only 5-10 and 168lbs I immediately said I'll have it. The Paki tailor did wonders and with KD in the summer that free uniform lasted me until the International Rescue zuit suit came in and that lasted until the woolly pully and the lightweight trousers when the latter came in in 1984.
I never did buy that 2nd No 1 and bought a second hand one from a retiree in 1975. My next one was a Burtons, also from a retiree when I took over his job 25 years later.
Only ever had two SD hats in all my time too.
Although barathea battledress was an option in the late 1960s, there was indeed an 'aircrew' version which was discotniued before I joined the RAF. It was similar in style to barathea battledress, but had sewn-down epaulattes and zip front pockets, as well as an AVS zip aperture.
I understood that only V-force and Lightning aircrew were entitled to it; the reason for its existence being, so I was told, that the Soviets had said that they wouldn't recognise flying clothing as 'uniform'.
Both 'normal' and 'V-force' barathea battledress were much, much smarter than the awful, shapeless 1972-pattern 'Thunderbird' thing. But even that was better than a V-necked pullover and tie - the last time I'd worn something like that was at prep school!
Anyway - wedgewood blue shirt with proper tie (how appallingly working class it would be to wear a clip-on tie...
), lightweight No 2 trousers with stable belt loops and stable belt, zipped flying boots and shortened aircrew leather jacket - plus a proper officer's SD cap. And to hell with the SWO's blood pressure!
I understood that only V-force and Lightning aircrew were entitled to it; the reason for its existence being, so I was told, that the Soviets had said that they wouldn't recognise flying clothing as 'uniform'.
Both 'normal' and 'V-force' barathea battledress were much, much smarter than the awful, shapeless 1972-pattern 'Thunderbird' thing. But even that was better than a V-necked pullover and tie - the last time I'd worn something like that was at prep school!
Anyway - wedgewood blue shirt with proper tie (how appallingly working class it would be to wear a clip-on tie...
), lightweight No 2 trousers with stable belt loops and stable belt, zipped flying boots and shortened aircrew leather jacket - plus a proper officer's SD cap. And to hell with the SWO's blood pressure!
Commando! Blimey - can't think how I ended up with that. I was probably the most un-warlike airman on the station.
Last edited by brakedwell; 16th Jun 2012 at 15:07.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah P-N, the Burtons No. 1 brings back a memory from the peace-protesting times of the late 1960s. A friend of mine, as usual short of the readies and looking for an inexpensive solution to a looming problem, went into his local branch of Burtons for a new uniform:
"I'd like an RAF Officer's No. 1 uniform please."
"Certainly Sir. What colour would you like it?"
"I'd like an RAF Officer's No. 1 uniform please."
"Certainly Sir. What colour would you like it?"
Perhaps you were a loving airman
Didn't have much chance of that, Brakes - it was a non-WRAF unit and all the local village girls seemed to be otherwise engaged.
Didn't have much chance of that, Brakes - it was a non-WRAF unit and all the local village girls seemed to be otherwise engaged.