Procrastination on Syria
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daedpan
<<Why doesn't Saudi sort it out with all that lovely military hardware we've supplied them? Or is it already being used in Bahrain??..>>
Good point - what's going on in Bahrain is real bad - but the main media doesn't make so much of it like it does for Syria.
<<Why doesn't Saudi sort it out with all that lovely military hardware we've supplied them? Or is it already being used in Bahrain??..>>
Good point - what's going on in Bahrain is real bad - but the main media doesn't make so much of it like it does for Syria.
Russians quite bluntly out it that there is no evidence that the women and children shot in the head were done so by Syrian armed forces, not like irregualars aided and supplied with personnel from Sunni govts would cause mayhem..................oh wait there was Iraq wasn't there where Saudi's supplied them.
Procrastination?
Why the assumption that "somebody, [perhaps us, or U.S. or whatever], should do something".
Yes it is dreadful but surely its an Arab problem ......... any outside intervention is resented for ever.
I think Hague is doing exactly the right thing, by attempting to lean on Russia. Any suggestion that we should do more risks lives, treasure and would create further enmity.
I hope the regime is toppled but would have little expectation for their successors to be much better. That's the way of the Arab world.
And sod the moral high ground, more like shifting sands.
Why the assumption that "somebody, [perhaps us, or U.S. or whatever], should do something".
Yes it is dreadful but surely its an Arab problem ......... any outside intervention is resented for ever.
I think Hague is doing exactly the right thing, by attempting to lean on Russia. Any suggestion that we should do more risks lives, treasure and would create further enmity.
I hope the regime is toppled but would have little expectation for their successors to be much better. That's the way of the Arab world.
And sod the moral high ground, more like shifting sands.
Last edited by langleybaston; 28th May 2012 at 19:37.
melchett - sorry, 'support' may have been too strong a word. They have been somewhat circumspect in supporting opposition movements in neighbouring countries. It seems they prefer to have hard men in power in these countries to keep their populations in check and stick to the various peace deals.
It always amazes me why all these Muslim radicals don't leap on a plane and fly off to the likes of Syria to fight the real oppressors of their kin, rather than continuing to rage against the West. Is there such a thing as a champagne fundamentalist?
It always amazes me why all these Muslim radicals don't leap on a plane and fly off to the likes of Syria to fight the real oppressors of their kin, rather than continuing to rage against the West. Is there such a thing as a champagne fundamentalist?
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It always amazes me why all these Muslim radicals don't leap on a plane and fly off to the likes of Syria to fight the real oppressors of their kin, rather than continuing to rage against the West. Is there such a thing as a champagne fundamentalist?
Bit like martyrdom, if it was so good and the Virgins so inviting, how comes their leadership are not champing at the bit to go first.
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As much as what is occuring in Syria is shocking to say the least, maybe some of them, especially the women see what happened in Eygpt and
decided that maybe it wasn't so bad under the old regime.
Women in general seem to be better off under the old regimes.
After all, how can Radical Muslim's claim that passing laws
about sex with dead wives being legal really improves the situation ??????
Arab Spring turns into Spring nightmare.
decided that maybe it wasn't so bad under the old regime.
Women in general seem to be better off under the old regimes.
After all, how can Radical Muslim's claim that passing laws
about sex with dead wives being legal really improves the situation ??????
Arab Spring turns into Spring nightmare.
Not sure who had the guns in this latest item to catch international attention, but NPR (Public Broadcasting in the USA) cited UN observers as attributing the massacre to "rogue militia" rather than regular forces.
Not that it matters all that much, but someone on the ground seems to be able to parse "sides" in this matter.
Not that it matters all that much, but someone on the ground seems to be able to parse "sides" in this matter.
'Hard men' who do what we want. Hmmm.....
It's not just a case of not wanting to be 'involved'. The local hard men are actually better at it than we are. Western Government thinking appears to be...
Worst case - No government. Tribal Areas as a terrorist base. Somali piracy, etc
Middle worst - we kill 600,000 civilians in 24 months; Iraq.
Best Worst - Saddam kills 600,000 in 24 years. But 500,000 of those were volunteers in a war we supported. There were Iraqis going through Valley at the same time as me.
But do we approve of the Pakistanis imposing Government on Tribal Areas that basically don't want it? Self-Determination is just about the fundamental principal of international politics; or should we hand the Falklands back?
I have no quick answers, but current thinking seems to make Best Worst progress steadily to Worst.
Ultimately, we need to be a bit more honest. Then we can start asking our politicians to do the same.
It's not just a case of not wanting to be 'involved'. The local hard men are actually better at it than we are. Western Government thinking appears to be...
Worst case - No government. Tribal Areas as a terrorist base. Somali piracy, etc
Middle worst - we kill 600,000 civilians in 24 months; Iraq.
Best Worst - Saddam kills 600,000 in 24 years. But 500,000 of those were volunteers in a war we supported. There were Iraqis going through Valley at the same time as me.
But do we approve of the Pakistanis imposing Government on Tribal Areas that basically don't want it? Self-Determination is just about the fundamental principal of international politics; or should we hand the Falklands back?
I have no quick answers, but current thinking seems to make Best Worst progress steadily to Worst.
Ultimately, we need to be a bit more honest. Then we can start asking our politicians to do the same.
Fox, is there any reason that the Pashtun should not get their own homeland, as the Bosniacs and Croations did with massive international assistance?
How about the Kurds? I note that some years back some Jewish folk got together and made one, also with considerable international assistance. How about the Slovenes? They get to have their own homeland. Why not the Basques, who'd maybe like some self determination? Why not the Pashtun?
Who makes these decisions?
I believe we should be told.
How about the Kurds? I note that some years back some Jewish folk got together and made one, also with considerable international assistance. How about the Slovenes? They get to have their own homeland. Why not the Basques, who'd maybe like some self determination? Why not the Pashtun?
Who makes these decisions?
I believe we should be told.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Not sure who had the guns in this latest item to catch international attention, but NPR (Public Broadcasting in the USA) cited UN observers as attributing the massacre to "rogue militia" rather than regular forces.
Syrian troops are using children as young as nine-years-old as human shields, forcing them to ride on top of government tanks to deter opposition attacks, the UN has stated.
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It just proves again that the UN has double standards,
showing great concern about Syria and Syrian children
but not quite as much concern or action over African
war lords and children abducted to fight.
showing great concern about Syria and Syrian children
but not quite as much concern or action over African
war lords and children abducted to fight.
Syrian troops are using children as young as nine-years-old as human shields, forcing them to ride on top of government tanks to deter opposition attacks, the UN has stated.
500N, I think I've seen more than one comminuque from the UN about Child Soldiers since the 90's ... not all stories, and not all utterances, can cover all topics.
Security Council Tightens Sanctions Regime on Somalia, Eritrea, Extending Mandate of Monitoring Group for 12 Months
One example.
See also UNSC resolution 1261 of the year 1999, seen here in .pdf format.
http://www.undemocracy.com/S-RES-1261(1999).pdf
If you be interested, you can also look into UNSCR 1314.
That said, Courtney seems to be right about what is and can be done about that state of affairs: beyond a harshly worded letter, mostly BFA.
Security Council Tightens Sanctions Regime on Somalia, Eritrea, Extending Mandate of Monitoring Group for 12 Months
One example.
See also UNSC resolution 1261 of the year 1999, seen here in .pdf format.
http://www.undemocracy.com/S-RES-1261(1999).pdf
If you be interested, you can also look into UNSCR 1314.
That said, Courtney seems to be right about what is and can be done about that state of affairs: beyond a harshly worded letter, mostly BFA.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 12th Jun 2012 at 20:43.
Human shields - Geneva conventions.
It appears the UN believes it is far more important for governments to sign up for things than it is for governments to stick to them.
Euro - expenditure rules
etc.
When was the last time a government actually got chucked out of something for breaking the conditions?
The UN is going the way of the League of Nations, and we all know where that lead.
Lonewolf - I don't have the answers, but I'm reaching the point where I'm going to declare my own homeland.
It appears the UN believes it is far more important for governments to sign up for things than it is for governments to stick to them.
Euro - expenditure rules
etc.
When was the last time a government actually got chucked out of something for breaking the conditions?
The UN is going the way of the League of Nations, and we all know where that lead.
Lonewolf - I don't have the answers, but I'm reaching the point where I'm going to declare my own homeland.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 13th Jun 2012 at 20:59.
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Agree to an extent "It appears the UN believes it is far more important for governments to sign up for things than it is for governments to stick to them."
One thing they do seem to push Gov'ts to stick to and implement is working against civilian ownership of guns as part of the trade in small arms push.
Agree to an extent "It appears the UN believes it is far more important for governments to sign up for things than it is for governments to stick to them."
One thing they do seem to push Gov'ts to stick to and implement is working against civilian ownership of guns as part of the trade in small arms push.