Procrastination on Syria
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Walter K -" ignoring South Africa where so many people of similar stock and culture as ourselves have been brutally murdered in recent years.
are you a Zulu or a Matabele then????
I think you;ll find most of the murdering in the RSA over the last 50 years was done by white folk
are you a Zulu or a Matabele then????
I think you;ll find most of the murdering in the RSA over the last 50 years was done by white folk
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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I think you;ll find most of the murdering in the RSA over the last 50 years was
done by white folk
done by white folk
BARBAROUS KILLING OF WHITE PEOPLE IN SOUTH AFRICA
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I wouldn't put too much stock in the accusations of the remnant of the white superiority movement responsible for the horror that was Apartheid.
Note that they fall back on statements made by Mandela decades ago when the whites were killing the blacks in the hundreds of thousands without prosecution to try to support their current claims.
This is hardly an honest look at what Mandela has stood for AND DONE since the collapse of the white-controlled racially divided government that held the blacks in virtual servitude.
I am sure that there ARE some incidents, and that some government officials have neglected their duties in that regard... but I'll need far more than the rants of people who want a return to the pre-1990 South Africa in order to believe that black-on-white violence in SA is anywhere near that bad... or is being ignored by the government on a systematic basis.
Note that they fall back on statements made by Mandela decades ago when the whites were killing the blacks in the hundreds of thousands without prosecution to try to support their current claims.
This is hardly an honest look at what Mandela has stood for AND DONE since the collapse of the white-controlled racially divided government that held the blacks in virtual servitude.
I am sure that there ARE some incidents, and that some government officials have neglected their duties in that regard... but I'll need far more than the rants of people who want a return to the pre-1990 South Africa in order to believe that black-on-white violence in SA is anywhere near that bad... or is being ignored by the government on a systematic basis.
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 26th Jun 2012 at 17:47.
The topic is Syria, the attention to be paid to issues in South Africa may warrant a separate thread for focus on that topic. Agreed? Each area has its own peculiarities and potential impact on neighbors, or those further afield.
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I thought that this thread was pushing for action on Syria - I posted that note on RSA as an example of disastrous regime change (as if Afghanistan and Iraq were not enough) - RSA was a powerful, vigorous, and functional state which, with gradual change, held the best future for all South Africans.
Perhaps this link may serve to get the real picture over of the hell that is developing there:
The Truth About South Africa: How many blacks were killed during Apartheid?
Perhaps this link may serve to get the real picture over of the hell that is developing there:
The Truth About South Africa: How many blacks were killed during Apartheid?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Asia Times: Russia drags Turkish farmers into Syria front line
MOSCOW - A century ago the Ottomans understood not to press the Russians in close encounters; the Turks are slow learners. After several recent episodes in which the Turkish armed forces have attempted to interfere with Russian vessels delivering cargo to Syria, the Russians have now delivered the message that Turkish cargoes headed for Russia may be stopped altogether.
The subtlety of this message has yet to be detected by the Anglo-American war media. They are still blustering over the message the Syrians delivered when they used Russian-made cannons to shoot down an American-made Turkish spy plane over Syrian territory on June 22.
Six days later, on June 28, the Russian government's food safety and quarantine service Rosselkhoznadzor (RSN) issued an announcement disclosing that it had detected 33 cases of infestation in Turkish exports to Russia of fruits and vegetables. The detection had reportedly taken place over the previous six months, possibly longer. The pests were identified in the official announcement as "the American white moth and the western (California) flower thrip".
RSN said it had "appealed to the General Directorate of Protection and Control of the Turkish Ministry of Food Agriculture and Livestock to take urgent measures to ensure full compliance with Russian and international phytosanitary requirements for the regulated supply of Turkish goods to Russia." Then followed the warning of a trade embargo. "As you know, in 2005 Rosselkhoznadzor was forced to introduce restrictive measures on imports of Turkish plant products due to the discovery of systemic [infestation] in the quarantine facilities in Russia."
The RSN announcement might have identified the pests by their common English or Latin names - the fall webworm or Hyphantria cunea, as the moth is known, and the western flower thrip, Frankliniella occidentalis. But RSN probably wasn't intending a reminder of the entomological history according to which the insects were native to the US and migrated from there to Europe. Explicitly naming the insects as American, however, appears to have been intended to convey the larger point - by relying on American infestation of the political and military sort, going to war against Syria, and imposing an armed cordon around its supply lines, Turkey is putting at risk its trade with Russia. The Turkish generals may enjoy their warmaking; Turkish farmers may not.........
MOSCOW - A century ago the Ottomans understood not to press the Russians in close encounters; the Turks are slow learners. After several recent episodes in which the Turkish armed forces have attempted to interfere with Russian vessels delivering cargo to Syria, the Russians have now delivered the message that Turkish cargoes headed for Russia may be stopped altogether.
The subtlety of this message has yet to be detected by the Anglo-American war media. They are still blustering over the message the Syrians delivered when they used Russian-made cannons to shoot down an American-made Turkish spy plane over Syrian territory on June 22.
Six days later, on June 28, the Russian government's food safety and quarantine service Rosselkhoznadzor (RSN) issued an announcement disclosing that it had detected 33 cases of infestation in Turkish exports to Russia of fruits and vegetables. The detection had reportedly taken place over the previous six months, possibly longer. The pests were identified in the official announcement as "the American white moth and the western (California) flower thrip".
RSN said it had "appealed to the General Directorate of Protection and Control of the Turkish Ministry of Food Agriculture and Livestock to take urgent measures to ensure full compliance with Russian and international phytosanitary requirements for the regulated supply of Turkish goods to Russia." Then followed the warning of a trade embargo. "As you know, in 2005 Rosselkhoznadzor was forced to introduce restrictive measures on imports of Turkish plant products due to the discovery of systemic [infestation] in the quarantine facilities in Russia."
The RSN announcement might have identified the pests by their common English or Latin names - the fall webworm or Hyphantria cunea, as the moth is known, and the western flower thrip, Frankliniella occidentalis. But RSN probably wasn't intending a reminder of the entomological history according to which the insects were native to the US and migrated from there to Europe. Explicitly naming the insects as American, however, appears to have been intended to convey the larger point - by relying on American infestation of the political and military sort, going to war against Syria, and imposing an armed cordon around its supply lines, Turkey is putting at risk its trade with Russia. The Turkish generals may enjoy their warmaking; Turkish farmers may not.........
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theres a fuller version of that at RUSSIA TO SHOOT DOWN TURKEY
It goes on to say
"Turkish customs data show that this is a particularly sensitive time of the year for the Turks to appreciate a Russian threat to shoot down Turkish strawberries, pomegranates, cherries, tomatoes and peppers. That’s because the value of Turkish exports to Russia, all products, in the five months to May 31 has been running at a record level – $2.6 billion so far, with more than $6.2 billion possible by year’s end. If achieved, that would be higher than the $6 billion value reached last year, and in 2008. In between, the value of Turkish exports sank as low as $2.5 billion in the recession year of 2009.
Russia ranks the third largest of Turkey’s export markets, behind Germany and the UK; it is roughly equal with Italy. An estimated 20% of the value of Turkish exporsto Russia is generated by fruits and vegetables; for Turkish strawberries and tomatoes, Russia is the leading buyer."
It goes on to say
"Turkish customs data show that this is a particularly sensitive time of the year for the Turks to appreciate a Russian threat to shoot down Turkish strawberries, pomegranates, cherries, tomatoes and peppers. That’s because the value of Turkish exports to Russia, all products, in the five months to May 31 has been running at a record level – $2.6 billion so far, with more than $6.2 billion possible by year’s end. If achieved, that would be higher than the $6 billion value reached last year, and in 2008. In between, the value of Turkish exports sank as low as $2.5 billion in the recession year of 2009.
Russia ranks the third largest of Turkey’s export markets, behind Germany and the UK; it is roughly equal with Italy. An estimated 20% of the value of Turkish exporsto Russia is generated by fruits and vegetables; for Turkish strawberries and tomatoes, Russia is the leading buyer."
Was the Falklands economic? Northern Ireland? The Napoleonic Wars? The Iran Iraq war?
The world is not as black and white as you think.
The world is not as black and white as you think.
Last edited by pr00ne; 9th Jul 2012 at 21:08.
Was the Falklands economic? Northern Ireland? The Napoleonic Wars? The Iran Iraq war?
The world is not as black and white as you think.
The world is not as black and white as you think.
1.) Fishing rights and potentially Oil
2.) Most definitely as was response by Artificial NI statelet to minority population seeking equality i.e. reduction in economic sectarian power of majority that was starting fuel
3.) Napoleonic - most definitely was
Russian warships are sent to Syria
Northern Fleet (NF) destroyer Admiral Chabanenko and three Russian amphibious assault ships left NF Main Base Severomorsk on July 10. The high official from Russian Ministry of Defence told Central Navy Portal.
Three amphibious assault ships transport Marine Corps submits on-board. Baltic Fleet guard frigat Yaroslav Mudry and auxiliary ships, based in Baltiysk, will join Admiral Chabanenko later. According to information available to Central Navy Portal, naval ships move into the Mediterranean Sea, into Syria water area.
À crew member from one of the ships confirmed the information. He also noticed, that the three-months mission in the Mediterranean Sea for Admiral Chabanenko and three Russain amphibious assault ships was planned in advance.
Recall that in 2012 Russian warships called at Tartus port many times. To replenish supplies, destroyer Admiral Chabanenko, frigate Ladny, and tanker Lena, being deployed with the Russian Navy's carrier group in the Mediterranean, visited the port in Jan 2012. Aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov and rescue tug Nikolai Chiker were anchored off the Tartus port then.
Northern Fleet (NF) destroyer Admiral Chabanenko and three Russian amphibious assault ships left NF Main Base Severomorsk on July 10. The high official from Russian Ministry of Defence told Central Navy Portal.
Three amphibious assault ships transport Marine Corps submits on-board. Baltic Fleet guard frigat Yaroslav Mudry and auxiliary ships, based in Baltiysk, will join Admiral Chabanenko later. According to information available to Central Navy Portal, naval ships move into the Mediterranean Sea, into Syria water area.
À crew member from one of the ships confirmed the information. He also noticed, that the three-months mission in the Mediterranean Sea for Admiral Chabanenko and three Russain amphibious assault ships was planned in advance.
Recall that in 2012 Russian warships called at Tartus port many times. To replenish supplies, destroyer Admiral Chabanenko, frigate Ladny, and tanker Lena, being deployed with the Russian Navy's carrier group in the Mediterranean, visited the port in Jan 2012. Aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov and rescue tug Nikolai Chiker were anchored off the Tartus port then.
Good news.
You will note that back in about 2007, more US ships were sent to the Persian Gulf, and some alarmists (Paul Craig Roberts for one) decided that this meant war, not saber rattling.
So, what's Russian for saber rattling?
Play on.
You will note that back in about 2007, more US ships were sent to the Persian Gulf, and some alarmists (Paul Craig Roberts for one) decided that this meant war, not saber rattling.
So, what's Russian for saber rattling?
Play on.
The following Russian Navy vessels passed through the Bosphorus.
11th July
Destroyer Smetlivy = Call sign RFH70
10th July
Caesar Kunikov (Amphibious Landing Ship) = Call sign RGZ58
Nikolay Filchenkov (Amphibious Landing Ship)
Shakhtar Tug = Call sign RMUW or RCJE
SB-5 Okhtenskiy Class Tug = Call sign RMUW or RCJE
Greek Media: Russian Warships Entered the Aegean Sea on Syria Mission - Keep Talking Greece
The only vessel sending regular Morse weather traffic is RCJE (Probably an Auxiliary and likely to be one of the Tugs). The others vessels are active in Morse but only sending encrypted HF links.
8345 Kilohertz, 11 July, 18 GMT
RCV DE RCJE 11181 99368 10266 22242 @ 1819Z
36.8N 26.6E Heading South at 6-10 Knots
Map Link
Just a quick snippet. I won't post further Morse Code weather movements as the Black Sea vessels will probably transit to Tartus, Syria.
11th July
Destroyer Smetlivy = Call sign RFH70
10th July
Caesar Kunikov (Amphibious Landing Ship) = Call sign RGZ58
Nikolay Filchenkov (Amphibious Landing Ship)
Shakhtar Tug = Call sign RMUW or RCJE
SB-5 Okhtenskiy Class Tug = Call sign RMUW or RCJE
Citing Greek military sources, Greek media reported on Tuesday, that four Russian warships are sailing through the Aegean Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean. Two amphibious ships from the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the CAESAR KUNIKOV and the NIKOLAI FILCHENKOV, and two tug-boats SHAKHTAR and OKHTENSKY passed through the Turkish Straits this morning and were currently south of the Imvros Island.
According to Greek defencenet.gr portal, the Russian ships will be sailing the Aegean Sea and are expected to exit Greek waters in the dawn of Wednesday via the Karpathos-Rhodes strait.
According to Greek defencenet.gr portal, the Russian ships will be sailing the Aegean Sea and are expected to exit Greek waters in the dawn of Wednesday via the Karpathos-Rhodes strait.
The only vessel sending regular Morse weather traffic is RCJE (Probably an Auxiliary and likely to be one of the Tugs). The others vessels are active in Morse but only sending encrypted HF links.
8345 Kilohertz, 11 July, 18 GMT
RCV DE RCJE 11181 99368 10266 22242 @ 1819Z
36.8N 26.6E Heading South at 6-10 Knots
Map Link
Just a quick snippet. I won't post further Morse Code weather movements as the Black Sea vessels will probably transit to Tartus, Syria.
Last edited by TEEEJ; 11th Jul 2012 at 19:06.
Looks like Northern and Baltic Fleet elements of the Task Force are underway.
Very weak Morse weather transmission noted on 8345 Khz. The call sign was too weak to copy.
13th July, 12 GMT
Northern Fleet element
8345 Khz
13121 99674 10078 @1220Z
67.4N 07.8E
Map Link
Baltic Fleet
8345 RMP DE RBES 13121 99546 10112 22270 @1224Z
54.6N 11.2E Heading North West Speed 0 Knots or not reported
Map Link
The Black Sea element is still heading towards Syria.
12464 RCV DE RCJE 13121 99340 10302 22222 @1203Z
34.0N 30.2E Heading East at 6-10 Knots
Map Link
Nikolay Chiker is listed as participating and movements will likely appear at the following link.
NIKOLAY CHIKER - Vessel's Details and Current Position - 8613334 - 273543910
Full details of the vessels released by the Russian Media at following link.
'Russian Navy Command explained warships sending to the Mediterranean Sea'
Russian Navy Command explained warships sending to the Mediterranean Sea
Just a quick post to keep those interested updated. I won't clog up the thread with further routine position reports. If they pass through the Strait of Gibraltar I'll post an update.
Very weak Morse weather transmission noted on 8345 Khz. The call sign was too weak to copy.
13th July, 12 GMT
Northern Fleet element
8345 Khz
13121 99674 10078 @1220Z
67.4N 07.8E
Map Link
Baltic Fleet
8345 RMP DE RBES 13121 99546 10112 22270 @1224Z
54.6N 11.2E Heading North West Speed 0 Knots or not reported
Map Link
The Black Sea element is still heading towards Syria.
12464 RCV DE RCJE 13121 99340 10302 22222 @1203Z
34.0N 30.2E Heading East at 6-10 Knots
Map Link
Nikolay Chiker is listed as participating and movements will likely appear at the following link.
NIKOLAY CHIKER - Vessel's Details and Current Position - 8613334 - 273543910
Full details of the vessels released by the Russian Media at following link.
'Russian Navy Command explained warships sending to the Mediterranean Sea'
Russian Navy Command explained warships sending to the Mediterranean Sea
Just a quick post to keep those interested updated. I won't clog up the thread with further routine position reports. If they pass through the Strait of Gibraltar I'll post an update.
M/V Alaed
Position Recorded on:
2012-07-12T10:17:00 (UTC)
Lat/Lon: 69.65979 / 14.40417
Speed/Course: 13.3 kn / 228°
From
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Position Recorded on:
2012-07-12T10:17:00 (UTC)
Lat/Lon: 69.65979 / 14.40417
Speed/Course: 13.3 kn / 228°
From
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Syria crisis: Defence & INterior Ministers killed in Damascus attack
........Damascus security building was targeted during a meeting for ministers and security leaders: state TV #Syria #Breaking.....
...........Hezbollah TV is now saying Assad's brother-in-law, Assef Shawkat [Interior Minister], is dead.....
..........Syria: State media has confirmed that the defence minister was killed in the blast.........
........Damascus security building was targeted during a meeting for ministers and security leaders: state TV #Syria #Breaking.....
...........Hezbollah TV is now saying Assad's brother-in-law, Assef Shawkat [Interior Minister], is dead.....
..........Syria: State media has confirmed that the defence minister was killed in the blast.........
The Syrian Hind helos have apparently been unloaded from the M/V Alaed at Kaliningrad?
Syria-Bound Helicopters Unloaded at Russian Port - ABC News
Syria-Bound Helicopters Unloaded at Russian Port
MOSCOW — Three refurbished Russian attack helicopters have been removed from the Alaed, a transport ship that was delivering them to Syria, the Russian news agency Interfax reported Friday.
Interfax quoted an unnamed source saying that the trio of Mi-25 helicopters had been offloaded at the port of Baltiisk, in the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
“Three helicopters were unloaded from the Alaed during a brief stay at Baltiisk. The helicopters are likely to be moved to the 150th Aircraft Repair Plant in the town of Lyublino-Novoye outside Kaliningrad, where they will be kept, pending other decisions,” the source told Interfax.
The Interfax report did not say when the helicopters had been removed from the ship. Earlier reports indicated that the Alaed had departed Baltiisk on July 18, sailing in a northwestern direction. The ship’s owner told Interfax that the ship would sail to St Petersburg, where it would take on additional cargo, and then continue on to the Far East.
Last week Russia said it would freeze arms sales and deliveries to Syria while the conflict there escalates.
MOSCOW — Three refurbished Russian attack helicopters have been removed from the Alaed, a transport ship that was delivering them to Syria, the Russian news agency Interfax reported Friday.
Interfax quoted an unnamed source saying that the trio of Mi-25 helicopters had been offloaded at the port of Baltiisk, in the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
“Three helicopters were unloaded from the Alaed during a brief stay at Baltiisk. The helicopters are likely to be moved to the 150th Aircraft Repair Plant in the town of Lyublino-Novoye outside Kaliningrad, where they will be kept, pending other decisions,” the source told Interfax.
The Interfax report did not say when the helicopters had been removed from the ship. Earlier reports indicated that the Alaed had departed Baltiisk on July 18, sailing in a northwestern direction. The ship’s owner told Interfax that the ship would sail to St Petersburg, where it would take on additional cargo, and then continue on to the Far East.
Last week Russia said it would freeze arms sales and deliveries to Syria while the conflict there escalates.