Pilot V Technician
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If you had met some of the riggers and sooties I've known over the years you wouldn't have to ask that....
You must have missed the pleasure of working with the plumbing fraternity
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NutLoose:
I did not realise that they had stopped the rank of JT ! I was a Cpl Tech when they did away with that rank & they reduced my Trade Pay down to JT level. I cicked up a stink about it & an outside organisation took my case up & won. I wasn't "flavour of the month" but at least my Cpl Tech Trade Pay was reinstated, while my Cpl chevrons were pointing downwards.
I did not realise that they had stopped the rank of JT ! I was a Cpl Tech when they did away with that rank & they reduced my Trade Pay down to JT level. I cicked up a stink about it & an outside organisation took my case up & won. I wasn't "flavour of the month" but at least my Cpl Tech Trade Pay was reinstated, while my Cpl chevrons were pointing downwards.
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Quote:
they have took
How can people master airframe & propulsion engineering but not basic written English?
they have took
How can people master airframe & propulsion engineering but not basic written English?
The techys, like everyone else
The old excuses of [high workrate] = [allow them to dress scruffy] no longer hold any water. With a shortage of airframes and sorties come a reduction in the pressing need for turnarounds which led to the Prima Donna techy breed who were even (almost) immune from the SWO as long as they could get the aircraft serviceable for a full wave in the morning.
The basic job of determining what's broken and how to fix it may have become a little de-skilled by the increasing use of diagnostic equipment and swap-out parts, I wouldn't know as I don't do it I just see it being done.
That post does read as if one has a chip on ones shoulders over not attaining the qualifications to be a " Techy"
VIprods, sadly yes, the JT I believe has now been replaced by the SAC Tech who has the SAC's three blade prop surrounded with a circle to differentiate them from a standard SAC.
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th May 2012 at 18:06.
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Now the computer's at fault?
Your iPad "autocorrects" and produces took instead of taken?
I think not. There's a world of difference between a spelling mistake and using the wrong word.
How did the iPad miss that one?
I think not. There's a world of difference between a spelling mistake and using the wrong word.
That's blatently obvious.
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Actually it didn't, that is the spelling it added, I just rechecked! Wonder if it is using google as it recognises both.
But I digress, I am not getting into a spelling issue with people that have nothing better to do, it is not answering the persons query which we were trying to address... You seriously need to get out more.
But I digress, I am not getting into a spelling issue with people that have nothing better to do, it is not answering the persons query which we were trying to address... You seriously need to get out more.
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th May 2012 at 19:42.
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Spooling mystiques.
Now I'm intrigued. What version of iPad and what language setting?
We are unable to get any of ours, (all three versions,) to accept "blatently" without correcting it. Even pprune wants to correct it.
As for chips, not me. I know, (and knew then) that I wasn't clever enough to do anything with a screwdriver never mind a spanner. I think the current legislation which prohibits me from doing anything more technical than checking the oil level before flying, is spot on.
I recently had to be saved by a licensed aircraft engineer when I cocked things up. Easily done I'm told, but embarrassing just the same. I over primed the engine...... so then I flooded it trying to start....... and flattened the battery trying to purge the flooding.
Pax really not impressed with me when the engineers tell me to stay seated while they hook up the GPU and get us going, muttering something about pilots and laughing to themselves.
I am fully in agreement with your point about J/T. The trades required a way of rewarding the cleverer guys who may not have been suitable, or required, for a JNCO post, but still deserved to be seen to be doing better than a non technical SAC.
I suspect that is why there is the SAC Tech badge, but this situation should have been left well alone.
Everyone understood that a Chief Tech was superior to a Flight Sergeant, even if not senior to him. I recall being told that a C/T was a tech trade F/S but I eventually realised, as I met more of both ranks, that there is indeed a difference. for exactly the same reasons that the Junior Technician needs a differentiation, I suppose the Chiefs are entitled to the same.
As for the OP and the question. I don't think that a proper comparison can be made. As I understand it, most of the QSPs in WW2 were on active flying duties, whereas today I suspect it is a small percentage. So the question would need to be asked about active pilots rather than just pilots.
We are unable to get any of ours, (all three versions,) to accept "blatently" without correcting it. Even pprune wants to correct it.
As for chips, not me. I know, (and knew then) that I wasn't clever enough to do anything with a screwdriver never mind a spanner. I think the current legislation which prohibits me from doing anything more technical than checking the oil level before flying, is spot on.
I recently had to be saved by a licensed aircraft engineer when I cocked things up. Easily done I'm told, but embarrassing just the same. I over primed the engine...... so then I flooded it trying to start....... and flattened the battery trying to purge the flooding.
Pax really not impressed with me when the engineers tell me to stay seated while they hook up the GPU and get us going, muttering something about pilots and laughing to themselves.
I am fully in agreement with your point about J/T. The trades required a way of rewarding the cleverer guys who may not have been suitable, or required, for a JNCO post, but still deserved to be seen to be doing better than a non technical SAC.
I suspect that is why there is the SAC Tech badge, but this situation should have been left well alone.
Everyone understood that a Chief Tech was superior to a Flight Sergeant, even if not senior to him. I recall being told that a C/T was a tech trade F/S but I eventually realised, as I met more of both ranks, that there is indeed a difference. for exactly the same reasons that the Junior Technician needs a differentiation, I suppose the Chiefs are entitled to the same.
As for the OP and the question. I don't think that a proper comparison can be made. As I understand it, most of the QSPs in WW2 were on active flying duties, whereas today I suspect it is a small percentage. So the question would need to be asked about active pilots rather than just pilots.
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You must have missed the pleasure of working with the plumbing fraternity
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Ipad2 with icabmobile
A Technical trade Flight Sgt is still a qualified tradesman so wasn't superior to a Chief Tech as he was simply moving up the trade rank structure, though you might as well call a Chief Tech a Tech Sgt as you no longer have a Junior Tech to play the rank off against, if that makes sense.
Over fuelling on start...mixture closed, throttle fully open and crank will normally start it, just get ready to swop them quickly when it fires.
.
Everyone understood that a Chief Tech was superior to a Flight Sergeant, even if not senior to him. I recall being told that a C/T was a tech trade F/S but I eventually realised, as I met more of both ranks, that there is indeed a difference. for exactly the same reasons that the Junior Technician needs a differentiation, I suppose the Chiefs are entitled to the same.
Over fuelling on start...mixture closed, throttle fully open and crank will normally start it, just get ready to swop them quickly when it fires.
.
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We are unable to get any of ours, (all three versions,) to accept "blatently" without correcting it.
S-D
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A Technical trade Flight Sgt is still a qualified tradesman so wasn't superior to a Chief Tech as he was simply moving up the trade rank structure, though you might as well call a Chief Tech a Tech Sgt as you no longer have a Junior Tech to play the rank off against, if that makes sense.
When the technical rank structure was abolished in the mid sixties (IIRC), the Ch. Tech. rank was placed between Sgt. and Flt. Sgt and the Crown was changed to a cloth four bladed prop. At the same time the J/T single upside down stripe was replaced by the same four bladed propellor.
Apologies for not using blatent as my laptop keeps correcting to blatant. Wouldn't want to upset the grimmer polis.
Last edited by Shack37; 26th May 2012 at 22:02.
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The old excuses of [high workrate] = [allow them to dress scruffy] no longer hold any water. With a shortage of airframes and sorties come a reduction in the pressing need for turnarounds which led to the Prima Donna techy breed who were even (almost) immune from the SWO as long as they could get the aircraft serviceable for a full wave in the morning.
S-D
Last edited by salad-dodger; 26th May 2012 at 22:03.
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Ah, the simians. Grand breed, quick rub down with an oily rag every morning and they were happy.
Some Ppruners apparently have nothing better to do than derail a thread by criticising spelling or grammar mistakes. Rather petty behaviour and mildly amusing in that the person concerned has made several errors in his own posts.
Anyway, to get back on track, this link might be useful regarding ground support staff:
House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 17 Nov 2008 (pt 0031)
Anyway, to get back on track, this link might be useful regarding ground support staff:
House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 17 Nov 2008 (pt 0031)
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Easy to stay nice and clean doing 8-5 Mon to Friday in Gen Office. Not so easy working a 15 hr night shift in the shed up to your ears in hydraulic fluid and all the other good stuff trying to generate the jets for the programme. There were many times that I took over at 5pm from the offgoing day shift and handed back over to them at 8am the next morning, after having worked virtually non stop apart from a brew here and there.
It wasn't Prima Donna behaviour, it was too bloody tired to really care if the crease on my trousers wasn't razor sharp behaviour. Luckily, some of the more enlightened GD staff cut us some slack on that front.
It wasn't Prima Donna behaviour, it was too bloody tired to really care if the crease on my trousers wasn't razor sharp behaviour. Luckily, some of the more enlightened GD staff cut us some slack on that front.
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How can aircrew master flight but not basic written English? Some F700 / techlog snags I have seen from aircrew has been undecipherable .
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Thing
Easy to stay nice and clean doing 8-5 Mon to Friday in Gen Office. Not so easy working a 15 hr night shift in the shed up to your ears in hydraulic fluid and all the other good stuff trying to generate the jets for the programme. There were many times that I took over at 5pm from the offgoing day shift and handed back over to them at 8am the next morning, after having worked virtually non stop apart from a brew here and there.
It wasn't Prima Donna behaviour, it was too bloody tired to really care if the crease on my trousers wasn't razor sharp behaviour. Luckily, some of the more enlightened GD staff cut us some slack on that front.
Easy to stay nice and clean doing 8-5 Mon to Friday in Gen Office. Not so easy working a 15 hr night shift in the shed up to your ears in hydraulic fluid and all the other good stuff trying to generate the jets for the programme. There were many times that I took over at 5pm from the offgoing day shift and handed back over to them at 8am the next morning, after having worked virtually non stop apart from a brew here and there.
It wasn't Prima Donna behaviour, it was too bloody tired to really care if the crease on my trousers wasn't razor sharp behaviour. Luckily, some of the more enlightened GD staff cut us some slack on that front.
It is often impossible to come off shift looking smart, try polishing a pair of shoes that are soaked in fuel or skydrol, unless you have full changing facilities and showers etc.. Try working on a fuel system or pulling Skydrol pumps off that are above you, the fluid has only one way to go and that is down, often over you.
Thing, speaking of shifts, doing 12 hour shifts on the VC 10 three days three nights on six off was resented by the whole station, the fact we worked weekends and public holidays, plus the first day was spent sleeping off nights and the second adjusting your time clock, and leave had to be split with the off time... still did not wash with them even when the shift pattern was shown that we worked more days than a normal 9 to 5 shift worker.. All they saw was the six days off.
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th May 2012 at 23:53.
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If you are too tired after a 15 hour shift then how are you after a 14 hour shift?
As for flying being easier, as an ex techie and a current pilot, don't believe all the steely eyed killer nonsense....anyone that can count to ten and know where they live can fly. OK I will give the FJ guys their due, running around in the weeds at silly speeds does require a degree of sharpness, fair dues to them and I don't count chopper pilots as helicopters are an affront to decency.
One of the things that really used to annoy me during a tech debrief were pilots who would snag some complex piece of kit and then proceed to tell you what they thought was wrong with it. So, the HNC in Electronic Engineering and the 3 month manufacturers course on that particular bit of kit are as nothing compared to your A level in Art and two day overview of the system then sir? I see, let me kneel before your superior wisdom. Prat. Please just stick to pushing the buttons that make it work and leave Complicated Things to me, because that's what I'm paid for.
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Ahhhh Thing... I still remember one now..... VC10 ( cannot remember the exact figures these days ) but it went like this...
No1 engine will not relight at 30,000ft
But is is not designed to, Rolls Royce say it will not normally light above 28,000ft, it is outside it's design parameters
But No2 No3 and No4 did
Best part of day wasted lix washing an engine even though it is doing what it says on the tin.
No1 engine will not relight at 30,000ft
But is is not designed to, Rolls Royce say it will not normally light above 28,000ft, it is outside it's design parameters
But No2 No3 and No4 did
Best part of day wasted lix washing an engine even though it is doing what it says on the tin.
Last edited by NutLoose; 27th May 2012 at 00:01.
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Reminds me of the old Shackleton chestnut.
Pilot snag-'No 1 engine is missing'
Techie-'No 1 engine found on port wing after brief search.'
Pilot snag-'No 1 engine is missing'
Techie-'No 1 engine found on port wing after brief search.'
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
One of the things that really used to annoy me during a tech debrief were pilots who would snag some complex piece of kit and then proceed to tell you what they thought was wrong with it. So, the HNC in Electronic Engineering and the 3 month manufacturers course on that particular bit of kit are as nothing
One day I arrived at the bay as the tech was about to write NFF. I convinced him that the fault was there as it had occurred on 3 sorties out of 5. Then I realised he was looking at the wrong side of the box. The CC had mixed up N/S and E/W when he did the write up. A quick look at the correct side of the box and a fresh description of how the intermittent fault had occurred and the problem was instantly visible.