Voyager: AT Aircraft Only??
not cost effective in the past with no low viz capable Military capability.
airsound
(who had the honour of being the last Flt Cdr Ops on 53, the one and only Belfast Sqn)
ETOPS for new type to a company is pefectly possible but does require the project manager to get the regulatory and training ducks in a row at an early stage. Likewise LVPs.
Champagne anyone...?
Cat III? LVPs? The recently relaid Brize runway doesn't even have stop bars.... 
If they're going to concentrate all the AT assets on one runway (especially one prone to fog) then common sense would dictate that you do everything you can to ensure you can maintain continuous ops. I'm 99% certain the A330 will get Cat III certification but the RAF need to Brize up to spec with Cat III ILS, proper lighting and LVPs. The C130J is Cat II capable but the RAF never bothered certifying it. I assume the A400 will come with a Cat III certification......?
If they're going to concentrate all the AT assets on one runway (especially one prone to fog) then common sense would dictate that you do everything you can to ensure you can maintain continuous ops. I'm 99% certain the A330 will get Cat III certification but the RAF need to Brize up to spec with Cat III ILS, proper lighting and LVPs. The C130J is Cat II capable but the RAF never bothered certifying it. I assume the A400 will come with a Cat III certification......?
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Even if Brize could never achieve CatIII standard without spending lots of dosh, that the RAF does't have, surely it would still be useful to have the crews trained and the maintenance practises in place, so that the full capability of the aircraft could be used when necessary! The only currency we had was the requirement to do an LVP take off and autoland (with faults) in the sim every six months. The aircraft was required to do an autoland, I think every three months, MOC monitored this using the tech log where all autolands were recorded!
Last edited by haltonapp; 19th Nov 2012 at 21:05.
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The maintenance burden is huge. Every time any part of the autopilot / land system fails that requires a rectification / box-swap the groundcrew have to carry out a full autopilot functional check with full autoland. That's about 8 hours work...
This of course includes the ILS and RADALT systems.
Not to mention keeping a log of all the boxes status after every flight, so that any spurious fault trends can be monitorerd.
I seriously doubt they have the manpower for that...
This of course includes the ILS and RADALT systems.
Not to mention keeping a log of all the boxes status after every flight, so that any spurious fault trends can be monitorerd.
I seriously doubt they have the manpower for that...
The maintenance burden is huge.
"My" airline isn't exactly overwhelmed with spare engineering manpower but even so you rarely see our CAT 3 equipped types being downgraded to "CAT 2" or "No Autoland" due to Autoflight defects.
I'm with Wiggy. I fly pretty old 757s and brand new 767s. Very rare to see any maintenance work or downgrades on any of the LV stuff. A downgrade to Land 2 still gives pretty good capability (50'/200m).
Not to mention keeping a log of all the boxes status after every flight, so that any spurious fault trends can be monitorerd.
I seriously doubt they have the manpower for that...
I seriously doubt they have the manpower for that...
You're saying it has to be written down using pencil and paper?
.
Last edited by Lockstock; 20th Nov 2012 at 19:46.
It probably would originally have had electronic download, but the MoD spec would pay lots of money to have it removed, replaced with paper and pencils and the capability reduced.
Yes, Glum is probably in the VC10th century, where very much manpower was(is?) required. There's possibly a shortage of good quality Radar Valves too.
I worked for (several) airlines up to 767 and I can't remember ever having an autoland defect that required anything but a short time to fix/replace, even after a downgrade.
As already pointed out - newer aircraft don't have those manpower intensive problems and some can transmit their data downloads on demand.
I worked for (several) airlines up to 767 and I can't remember ever having an autoland defect that required anything but a short time to fix/replace, even after a downgrade.
As already pointed out - newer aircraft don't have those manpower intensive problems and some can transmit their data downloads on demand.
I can't remember experiencing any autoland faults during the ten years I flew B757/767's, including numerous autolands in the 757 to gain Cat3 type approval during 1983.
Last edited by brakedwell; 20th Nov 2012 at 21:51.
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Originally Posted by glum
Every time any part of the autopilot / land system fails that requires a rectification / box-swap the groundcrew have to carry out a full autopilot functional check with full autoland. That's about 8 hours work...
This of course includes the ILS and RADALT systems.
Not to mention keeping a log of all the boxes status after every flight, so that any spurious fault trends can be monitorerd.
This of course includes the ILS and RADALT systems.
Not to mention keeping a log of all the boxes status after every flight, so that any spurious fault trends can be monitorerd.
Don't let facts stop you posting though, there are plenty of other posts on this thread with about as much genuine factual information as yours!
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I understand that a Voyager diverted to Manchester yesterday when it was foggy at Brize. Would almost certainly have got in if it were Cat IIIB operational.
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Did'nt help much at LHR did it, would it have saved the day at BZN ?
Weather: Fog And Ice Hit Dozens Of Flights
Weather: Fog And Ice Hit Dozens Of Flights
Last edited by Blue Bottle; 12th Dec 2012 at 06:40.
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What nonsense. If LHR didn't have Cat III capability then virtually everything would have had to divert when the visibility dropped below the "normal" Cat I limits, causing far more disruption than actually occurred.
We all know that as LHR operates close to capacity, disruption occurs when LVPs are in force. I would suggest the same could not be said about BZZ
We all know that as LHR operates close to capacity, disruption occurs when LVPs are in force. I would suggest the same could not be said about BZZ