Spitfire crash landing in Scotland WW11
As someone who has followed this thread but up to now not contributed to it, I'm afraid that having done so I am yet another to do so simply to express an unease about where it might be going. The aviation side of this seems to be that at least one RAF fighter aircraft forced landed in the local area. End of as far as this forum is concerned I would have thought. No we are told, it is all information in the public domain and hence a good example of what can be retrieved from it. But how does that serve the purposes of this forum?
Mr Rausch, or whoever, may not have committed any crime yet his past is being exhumed with forensic thoroughness. It has already been suggested that there might be a second family involved, unknown by the first, well until it is produced like a rabbit out of a hat here presumably. It was clearly Mr Rausch's wish that his personal affairs be just that, his. Even if that right expired with him there may still be live relatives. Rather than track them down might I suggest that enough interest has been had here and sleeping dogs should be left to lie?
Mr Rausch, or whoever, may not have committed any crime yet his past is being exhumed with forensic thoroughness. It has already been suggested that there might be a second family involved, unknown by the first, well until it is produced like a rabbit out of a hat here presumably. It was clearly Mr Rausch's wish that his personal affairs be just that, his. Even if that right expired with him there may still be live relatives. Rather than track them down might I suggest that enough interest has been had here and sleeping dogs should be left to lie?
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chugalug2
Much of that unsavoriness has - I am certain - come from what I believe is the incorrect identification of who El Grifo met. Much effort has been spent in trying to incorrectly explain the families denial of something that clearly had nothing to do with them! The reason was simple - its the wrong man!.
Now having said that, I see no problem in trying to identify the details of who was piloting that (or those) aircraft from public sources.
But I agree - bandying speculation around regarding "second families" or possible criminal mindsets is unhelpful, inconsiderate, totally unjustified and wrong. There's going to be a simple answer to all this, and the more people ty to complicate it, the less likely we are to find the truth
Much of that unsavoriness has - I am certain - come from what I believe is the incorrect identification of who El Grifo met. Much effort has been spent in trying to incorrectly explain the families denial of something that clearly had nothing to do with them! The reason was simple - its the wrong man!.
Now having said that, I see no problem in trying to identify the details of who was piloting that (or those) aircraft from public sources.
But I agree - bandying speculation around regarding "second families" or possible criminal mindsets is unhelpful, inconsiderate, totally unjustified and wrong. There's going to be a simple answer to all this, and the more people ty to complicate it, the less likely we are to find the truth
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Age: 79
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Milo,
You wrote:
Third the Harold Raasch listed on a USA veterans website as having RAF wings, was a Hurricane pilot, and died in 1997. This seems the most likely candidate except he supposedly died the year before El Grifo had his meeting
The meeting took place in 1988, so he should be a relevant candidate, if the year of death on the veterans website is correct.
With regard to applicable Scandinavian websites: I checked already. No clues apart from the info about Fnr S. Sem already given.
The 2 Norwegian RAF squadrons lost 131 aircraft and 71 pilots were killed during WW11, so a forced landing like the one we are dealing with must have been a non-event.
I wrote post 339 - I am going on holidays tomorrow, so I will ask someone else to contact him for info, please!
You wrote:
Third the Harold Raasch listed on a USA veterans website as having RAF wings, was a Hurricane pilot, and died in 1997. This seems the most likely candidate except he supposedly died the year before El Grifo had his meeting
The meeting took place in 1988, so he should be a relevant candidate, if the year of death on the veterans website is correct.
With regard to applicable Scandinavian websites: I checked already. No clues apart from the info about Fnr S. Sem already given.
The 2 Norwegian RAF squadrons lost 131 aircraft and 71 pilots were killed during WW11, so a forced landing like the one we are dealing with must have been a non-event.
I wrote post 339 - I am going on holidays tomorrow, so I will ask someone else to contact him for info, please!
Last edited by grebllaw123d; 8th Jul 2012 at 17:39.
M&M:
Then I suggest that speculation stays with the aircraft, rather than the man that El Grifo met. If the pilot(s) of that/those aircraft could possibly match that of his man then that is perhaps a different story. From what I have learned here though it is possible that the man was never a pilot, let alone one who had, as he maintained, forced landed an aircraft nearby. Why he might so misrepresent himself and why he said he was spending every other day at a museum some 35 miles away was his business and, for the sake of those still living, should remain so I would suggest.
The reason was simple - its the wrong man!.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 8th Jul 2012 at 15:33.
Not for me to forgive or condone, KAD. It was the general trend rather than any individual post that gave me concern. These things tend to have a life of their own if one is not careful. That is why I call for some restraint and thoughtfulness here. So let's be careful.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chug:
Like I already pointed out there is information that I don't publish here just as, if I found anything else of a less than innocuous nature I would share it privately with El Grifo rather than bandy it around these forum...
Just so you know...
Like I already pointed out there is information that I don't publish here just as, if I found anything else of a less than innocuous nature I would share it privately with El Grifo rather than bandy it around these forum...
Just so you know...
AA:
Indeed I do AA, and duly appreciated. Thanks.
Chug:
Just so you know...
Just so you know...
Thread Starter
El Grifo - do you think it's possible that a Spitfire could have crashed on the location he claimed it did without anybody being aware of it or having any recollection of it whatsoever? (notwithstanding the reported 'Hurricane' crash on the same site)
Thanks though
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just noticed it myself - I'll mail him
While browsing that forum I found this thread
RAF to 8th AF List of Pilots 9-29-42
It seems to be a list of Eagle Squadron members who transferred to the USAAF.
No-one named Raasch
This site Fourth Fighter Group -- AAF -- WWII -- Eagle Squadrons RAF has the rosters for the three Eagle Fighter Squadrons
No Raasch
Looking increasingly likely the man WAS Canadian. So the chap on the veterans website looks a stronger and stronger candidate given his RAF wings
While browsing that forum I found this thread
RAF to 8th AF List of Pilots 9-29-42
It seems to be a list of Eagle Squadron members who transferred to the USAAF.
No-one named Raasch
This site Fourth Fighter Group -- AAF -- WWII -- Eagle Squadrons RAF has the rosters for the three Eagle Fighter Squadrons
No Raasch
Looking increasingly likely the man WAS Canadian. So the chap on the veterans website looks a stronger and stronger candidate given his RAF wings
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 8th Jul 2012 at 21:37.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Age: 79
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Canadian..........?
Milo wrotes:
Looking increasingly likely the man WAS Canadian. So the chap on the veterans website looks a stronger and stronger candidate given his RAF wings
Might be so!
I checked the veterans website again, and I must say that I am not able to determine with any certainty that the pilots badge by H.R.'s name is an RAF badge - not even after enlargement.
It might as well be an RCAF badge.
The RCAF badge is here:
The Collector's Guild
The RAF badge is here:
Royal Air Force - Pilot
The RCAF had 44 squadrons in the UK - some of these were equipped with Hurricanes, and our "newest" H.R. could have served in one of these, and some time after the war he could have moved to the US.
Speculations? Yes, but we have had many of these on this thread!
Looking increasingly likely the man WAS Canadian. So the chap on the veterans website looks a stronger and stronger candidate given his RAF wings
Might be so!
I checked the veterans website again, and I must say that I am not able to determine with any certainty that the pilots badge by H.R.'s name is an RAF badge - not even after enlargement.
It might as well be an RCAF badge.
The RCAF badge is here:
The Collector's Guild
The RAF badge is here:
Royal Air Force - Pilot
The RCAF had 44 squadrons in the UK - some of these were equipped with Hurricanes, and our "newest" H.R. could have served in one of these, and some time after the war he could have moved to the US.
Speculations? Yes, but we have had many of these on this thread!
Last edited by grebllaw123d; 9th Jul 2012 at 09:10.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its supposed to be Lowland Scots - a "sister" language to English (actually recognised by the European Union as a minority language) but I think the author doesn't know what he's doing