Scottish Independence
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Scottish Independence
So Alex Salmond says that an independent Scotland will have its own Armed Forces. Any of our Scottish cousins in the RAF, Navy or Army fancy moving back north to help Salmond defend his kingdom.........? Might be able to keep Leuchars and Kinloss open, not sure what they'll base there though? 
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The SNP has also said:
1) the Scottish army will restore all the disbanded infantry regiment titles
2) Scotland won't be part of NATO
Meanwhile Salmond and John Swinney pleaded with Cameron to have more UK forces based in Scotland, with the result that Faslane is expanding and the number of army personnel will be doubling. I've heard two rationales for this:
1) Cameron was delighted to cement more UK units in Scotland because that would make it much harder (not least economically) for Salmond to achieve independence and chuck out all the UK troops
or, if you prefer:
2) Salmond wanted a nice cheap way of getting extra public spending in Scotland which doesn't cost Holyrood a penny, but which supports the local economy in the Clyde/Moray/Fife etc; and which also gives him a resident force which can be used as a basis for bargaining with the Westminster government after independence, in terms of (a) which units transfer to Scottish control and (b) which units the UK government wants to retain in Scotland, and at what price paid to the Scottish exchequer.
On Salmond's past record I would expect to see much weaseling over the next few years out of (a) the SNP's anti-NATO stance and (b) the commitment to get Trident and the SSNs out of Faslane. All the UK government has to do is name its price.
NS
1) the Scottish army will restore all the disbanded infantry regiment titles
2) Scotland won't be part of NATO
Meanwhile Salmond and John Swinney pleaded with Cameron to have more UK forces based in Scotland, with the result that Faslane is expanding and the number of army personnel will be doubling. I've heard two rationales for this:
1) Cameron was delighted to cement more UK units in Scotland because that would make it much harder (not least economically) for Salmond to achieve independence and chuck out all the UK troops
or, if you prefer:
2) Salmond wanted a nice cheap way of getting extra public spending in Scotland which doesn't cost Holyrood a penny, but which supports the local economy in the Clyde/Moray/Fife etc; and which also gives him a resident force which can be used as a basis for bargaining with the Westminster government after independence, in terms of (a) which units transfer to Scottish control and (b) which units the UK government wants to retain in Scotland, and at what price paid to the Scottish exchequer.
On Salmond's past record I would expect to see much weaseling over the next few years out of (a) the SNP's anti-NATO stance and (b) the commitment to get Trident and the SSNs out of Faslane. All the UK government has to do is name its price.
NS
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I wish I understood what this 'independence' is about. I also wonder if some of the people who talk about it know what it is and what they want. Is it full independence, which means they would have to opt out of the EU as well? It seems to me a very nebulous and ill-defined concept.
Within the UK, Scotland already has its own Assembly (Parliament?) and some degree of autonomy as do Wales to a lesser extent and Northern Ireland. We keep hearing about Catalunya, Quebec, the Basque country, just to name a few wanting 'Independence'.
I lived in a country which unilaterally declared independence from the British Crown because it was not prepared to submit to rule from Westminster, 5000 miles away. We could have survived as we had rich resources and a proper government, but political and military interference from the rest of the world brought down the regime.
Will Scotland be allowed to declare that sort of independence, or do they just want to have passports that say 'Scotland' on the front instead of 'United Kingdom'. How far does 'independence' go?
Within the UK, Scotland already has its own Assembly (Parliament?) and some degree of autonomy as do Wales to a lesser extent and Northern Ireland. We keep hearing about Catalunya, Quebec, the Basque country, just to name a few wanting 'Independence'.
I lived in a country which unilaterally declared independence from the British Crown because it was not prepared to submit to rule from Westminster, 5000 miles away. We could have survived as we had rich resources and a proper government, but political and military interference from the rest of the world brought down the regime.
Will Scotland be allowed to declare that sort of independence, or do they just want to have passports that say 'Scotland' on the front instead of 'United Kingdom'. How far does 'independence' go?
Grumpy,
There's naught left to based anywhere hardly....so what would be the difference?
There's naught left to based anywhere hardly....so what would be the difference?
I guess I must be the only one who thought he came across as open and transparent, a trait sadly lacking in many contemporary politicians. He answered many questions, including military goals and the economic plan for Scotland.
The economic plan, no doubt, will link to the military one. He outlined that Scotland will take on its % of the national debt, which was generous of him, whilst outlining that all the economic resource in the sea we share with a number of countries would belong to Scotland. He pointed out that the trillions Scotland would have in that resource area would dwarf their inherited debts. He also tried to looked slightly saddened that the debt left for the rest of the UK would look particularly painful given the sudden loss of trillions from the North Sea. Against this plan his need for an armed forces to protect Scotland never looked so earnest or urgently needed.
His only flaw was his Blofeld-like propensity to monologue over his master plan, presuming the rest of the UK is strapped to the laser table. Perhaps he is confident that the native Scots who have sworn allegiance to the Crown will successfully undermine the UK Armed Forces before the inevitable war between Scotland and the rest of the UK. Perhaps he also intends to claim the nuclear deterrent after all to level the playing field at the time where he takes all the assets he wants in his master plan to plunge the UK into the crisis he seeks.
Still, we have not had a war of national survival for a while and I understand subjugating the Scots can be rather fun. I've picked out my bit of Scotland that I will claim as my own once the conflict is over; tended to by the shackled locals of course.
The economic plan, no doubt, will link to the military one. He outlined that Scotland will take on its % of the national debt, which was generous of him, whilst outlining that all the economic resource in the sea we share with a number of countries would belong to Scotland. He pointed out that the trillions Scotland would have in that resource area would dwarf their inherited debts. He also tried to looked slightly saddened that the debt left for the rest of the UK would look particularly painful given the sudden loss of trillions from the North Sea. Against this plan his need for an armed forces to protect Scotland never looked so earnest or urgently needed.
His only flaw was his Blofeld-like propensity to monologue over his master plan, presuming the rest of the UK is strapped to the laser table. Perhaps he is confident that the native Scots who have sworn allegiance to the Crown will successfully undermine the UK Armed Forces before the inevitable war between Scotland and the rest of the UK. Perhaps he also intends to claim the nuclear deterrent after all to level the playing field at the time where he takes all the assets he wants in his master plan to plunge the UK into the crisis he seeks.
Still, we have not had a war of national survival for a while and I understand subjugating the Scots can be rather fun. I've picked out my bit of Scotland that I will claim as my own once the conflict is over; tended to by the shackled locals of course.
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Given that Scotland is one of Great Britain's poorer areas I don't see why those living in the north would want to risk their economic future by de coupling from the south.
Unless they significantly reduce local taxation there is little incentive for business to relocate north - and the outlying Highlands and Islands are relatively impoverished.
Whatever Salmon may postulate - he lives in a democracy and I reckon the Scots will put their pennies before their politics. If they don't then give it five years and there will be financial crisis.
As regards thoughts of military independence then that is just awful. what on earth would be achieved stoking a civil war?
Unless they significantly reduce local taxation there is little incentive for business to relocate north - and the outlying Highlands and Islands are relatively impoverished.
Whatever Salmon may postulate - he lives in a democracy and I reckon the Scots will put their pennies before their politics. If they don't then give it five years and there will be financial crisis.
As regards thoughts of military independence then that is just awful. what on earth would be achieved stoking a civil war?
I'll go fly for a new Scottish Air Force if they give me at least a 25% pay hike, make my flying pay pensionable, buy off the shelf, and don't adopt JPA 
In fact, do those things and it'll be pretty oversubscribed, I'd say!
In fact, do those things and it'll be pretty oversubscribed, I'd say!
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Does this mean the reactivation of RAF Acklington?
After all, if the SNP declare an independent Scottish State then the Air Defence arrangements for Northern England would need to be reviewed. RAF Ouston is now an up market housing estate (the house of a niece of my Wife is situated on the intersection of the former runways) but HM Prison Acklington could easily be reconverted to an active aerodrome.
After all, if the SNP declare an independent Scottish State then the Air Defence arrangements for Northern England would need to be reviewed. RAF Ouston is now an up market housing estate (the house of a niece of my Wife is situated on the intersection of the former runways) but HM Prison Acklington could easily be reconverted to an active aerodrome.
I rather imagine that the reason Fred Flin... sorry... ahem, Alex Salmond has not been anywhere near sufficiently forth coming about the Defence arrangements of a wholly independent Scotland is because he hasn't got a clue what he's going to do. It's rather like some starry eyed teenager with a silly idea about running away to London or America or something like that, in order to seek their fame and fortune. When Dad puts his paper down for a second and asks; just what are you going to do for money ? where are you going to stay exactly? the teenager irrationally regards such questions as being deliberately posed to be awkward, rather than a serious attempt to see how far the teenager has thought through the plan. And that is exactly how Salmond responds to the Independent Scotland Defence and Security question. He simply doesn't know, and what's more, its not that particular part about an Independent Scotland that he is particularly interested in and would rather people stopped annoying him with questions about it!
FB
FB
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Monday. Salmond & Scotland are given full independence and ownership of all the North Sea assets.
Tuesday. England invades and takes all of Scotland's assets.
Wednesday. Scotland ceases to be independent and is annexed as part of the United Kingdom. The English Govt give scotland 50% of what they were used to having as the formula for spending per head is re-written to make it per person, rather than how it is now.
....and repeat 400 years later.
Tuesday. England invades and takes all of Scotland's assets.
Wednesday. Scotland ceases to be independent and is annexed as part of the United Kingdom. The English Govt give scotland 50% of what they were used to having as the formula for spending per head is re-written to make it per person, rather than how it is now.
....and repeat 400 years later.
...and the mighty mouth also stated that he would get rid of WMD.
Back to chucking rocks then? (though, to be fair they do have a good supply of those)
Would it be too presumtuous to ask that he spends his trillions on relocating the things he does not want?
Back to chucking rocks then? (though, to be fair they do have a good supply of those)
Would it be too presumtuous to ask that he spends his trillions on relocating the things he does not want?
Monday. Salmond & Scotland are given full independence and ownership of all the North Sea assets.
Tuesday. England invades and takes all of Scotland's assets.
Tuesday. England invades and takes all of Scotland's assets.
Scotland shocked when much of the North Sea oil they claimed was all theirs is discovered, after international arbitration, to belong to England, Norway and Denmark.
England ignores Salmonds bleating, closes the border and leaves the Scots to stew in their new found utopia.
Why would Scotland need a huge army and air force ?
Could someone outline which country is likely to want to invade or start a war ?
UK Oil production totalled 1.26 million barrels a day in 2010 and even assumming only 70% was Scottish and thats excluding any Gas produced so I reckon they could survive on their own.
Could someone outline which country is likely to want to invade or start a war ?
UK Oil production totalled 1.26 million barrels a day in 2010 and even assumming only 70% was Scottish and thats excluding any Gas produced so I reckon they could survive on their own.
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Could someone outline which country is likely to want to invade
Oil production totalled 1.26 million barrels a day in 2010 and even assumming only 70% was Scottish
Er?? Seemed to be good enough for Iraq and Libya...
Is the oil Scottish or Shetland? I have yet to meet a Shetlander who feels he is Scottish their roots are more Scandinavian than Scottish. The island was mortgaged to James III by King Christian I of Norway in 1469. James III then annexed (stole) the island in 1472.
If Salmond offers the Scots a referendum on independence from UK then surely he must offer Shetland a chance to be independent from Scotland or remain with UK - see how much oil he has then!!
HF
If Salmond offers the Scots a referendum on independence from UK then surely he must offer Shetland a chance to be independent from Scotland or remain with UK - see how much oil he has then!!
HF
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Ideal scenario...........
Scotland hold referendum and populace decides to remain part of UK.......
Cameron agrees, closes the Scottish assembly as the referendum has voted against independance, moves all decision making back to Parliament and sells of the buildings saving £100's of millions a year in duplicated wastage in Civil service and buildings..
Cameron offers the Welsh a referendum, Welsh turn it down as wish to remain part of UK.....
Cameron agrees, closes the Welsh assembly as they have voted to stay part of UK, moves all decision making back to Parliament and sells of the buildings saving £100's of millions a year in duplicated wastage in Civil service and buildings....
Cameron offers.......
Scotland hold referendum and populace decides to remain part of UK.......
Cameron agrees, closes the Scottish assembly as the referendum has voted against independance, moves all decision making back to Parliament and sells of the buildings saving £100's of millions a year in duplicated wastage in Civil service and buildings..
Cameron offers the Welsh a referendum, Welsh turn it down as wish to remain part of UK.....
Cameron agrees, closes the Welsh assembly as they have voted to stay part of UK, moves all decision making back to Parliament and sells of the buildings saving £100's of millions a year in duplicated wastage in Civil service and buildings....
Cameron offers.......
